Filtering a 500 gallon tank

[slapper]

The wife doesn't know this yet but I'm planning on building a 500 gallon tank . I haven't seen this before but I want to put several intakes in the bottom (10 or more) going to a large pump. From there through canister filters and then over bioballs above the tank, returning by gravity back to the tank. This makes more sense to me then the traditional way of gravity to the bioballs then pumped back for several reasons. 1- with so many intakes on the bottom, posibally gravel vacuuming would be eliminated. 2-Your taking the water from the bottom which has less oxygen rather then from the top. 3 You would be able to mechanically filter alot better before it hits the bioballs making them much more efficient and 4 your sump would never run dry. Please give your input.

[krielikieli]

That's a wicked plan. :evil_lol: U gotta make it soooo nice so ur wife will luv it. :hearts:
My first ques is what r u going to put in there?

with so many intakes on the bottom, posibally gravel vacuuming would be eliminated
Have u considered sand instead of gravel? Sand doesn't need vacuming.

Your taking the water from the bottom which has less oxygen rather then from the top.
If the tank has good water circulation why is this needed?

You would be able to mechanically filter alot better before it hits the bioballs making them much more efficient
You can do this with the "improved" traditional trickle. You can built a custom made sump with several chamber (side to side, not top to bottom). For eg. First chamber is empty. It lets the water flow into the sump freely, U can put the heaters in there. Second chamber, I'd put filter wool. This way there's no need to go from coarse to fine mechanical filtration. It works for me. The third chamber, you put all the bio balls. Water has been well filtered, no issue of getting the bioballs clogged. Last chamber, is the return pump. This is just my simplest way of having mechanical & biological filtration in a sump. You can always add more chamber to ur need.

your sump would never run dry
Is your sump over the tank where the bioballs are? It will run dry if the power cuts for any reason. The bioballs will dry and the beneficial bacteria will die quicker. Whereas in a traditional sump the sump gets filled with water when the power cuts. The bioballs get sumberged and the bacteria won't die as quick.

I have both setups of trickle: the traditional and over tank. Just like to share from experience. :cheers:
DD

[slapper]

Thanks for the input krielikiely. I dont understand how this improved trickle filter works. Being sise by side how does the water trickle and filtering down to a low micron level doesnt seem like it would work without being under pressure.Do you have pictures? I dont know much about the + or -'s of sand, just that it wrecks pumps . Getting a 4'x8' tank enough circulation so the disolved oxygen it the same from top to bottom seems like it would be difficult. Also I dont want any pumps or hoses in the tank.I have a generator so the power thing is less of a problem and I wonder really how much longer the bioballs would last being submerged in a small amount of water.Do you have any pictures or plans for your filtration.Large central americans is my plan and a butti if i can muster up the nerve.

[CentralMayhem]

like i always say "to each their own". Both systems would work and the pro's and con's are minimal. everyone has their own way of doing things, and there is no RIGHT or WRONG way here. As long as you do massive water changes all filters should perform just fine. i have used sand many many times and never had it wreck a pump. with your outflows on the bottom you may have a problem when the sand gets stirred up. Overflows at thw top never have the prob though. i have used combinations of sand and gravel in my 300. look into it, you can make GREAT aquascapes. sand side a little brighter with lots of plants, gravel area a little dimmer with lots of rocks and caves etc. where the sand meets the gravel always turns out to look killer in my opinion.

[exoticfishguy]

Thanks for the input krielikiely. I dont understand how this improved trickle filter works. Being sise by side how does the water trickle and filtering down to a low micron level doesnt seem like it would work without being under pressure.Do you have pictures? I dont know much about the + or -'s of sand, just that it wrecks pumps . Getting a 4'x8' tank enough circulation so the disolved oxygen it the same from top to bottom seems like it would be difficult. Also I dont want any pumps or hoses in the tank.I have a generator so the power thing is less of a problem and I wonder really how much longer the bioballs would last being submerged in a small amount of water.Do you have any pictures or plans for your filtration.Large central americans is my plan and a butti if i can muster up the nerve.
If your water is returning to the tank from the top via gravity, you will not get the circulation that you desire, especially in a tank that size. You'll need water from your pressure pump through your canister filter and into the tank for higher flow. The side to side sump works ok for biological filtration, but doesn't filter out fine particulate well, as the filter wool gets clogged easily and eventually blocks flow, possibly causing an over flow out of the sump-messy. I'm using a 20 gallon sump like this in my 135 gal but had to add an Ocean Clear and Iwaki 40RLT pressure pump. After a few hour the tank was sparkling clean and has a strong current. You might want to consider keeping the biological and mechanical filtration separate like this.

[slapper]

I want the water well filtered mechanically before it hits the bioballs but am still unsure of the best way to go about it.Is anyone familiar with bead filters used for swimming pools and ponds. As far as circulation, I think pulling 3000 gph from the bottom and returning it to the top will provide plenty.

[bill hundt]

you can go to pentair aquatics .com they make very good filters for ides and produts. also at chiclid forum .com there is a guy who built a 1700 gollon shark tank . he tells how he built it as well as how he filters it. you could also use a sand filter for bio filter. you can get them on line at any of the online fish supply houses. also check the pond section . if you go with a sand filter you could use a small outside filter with a small over flow tube.

[M|L]

I highly doubt the usage of canister filters can safely be incorporated into a large scale filtration system. Canister filters have relatively small pumps that can't carry out the job of moving so much water.

You will still need a large water pump to move the water up and back into the tank.

[M|L]

Designing this system takes time and careful planning, because you would not want flooded floors or systems failing to do the work.

We may need more details (perhaps even a simple sketch) of the system in order to better understand how will work.

[rayman45]

phatboy said it all

[rayman45]

Designing this system takes time and careful planning, because you would not want flooded floors or systems failing to do the work.

We may need more details (perhaps even a simple sketch) of the system in order to better understand how will work.

i always draw a plan b4 i bulid anything for a tank
think of every thing that can go wrong

[bill hundt]

that is why i said to go to pentair they can make a filter to fit any size tank

[slapper]

I'm getting a 120 gallon wide acrylic in about a month or 2 and I'm going to do the same filter system on that one. I'll post pics. A few intakes on the bottom going to a 1200 to 1500 gallon pump then a large canister and finally to bioballs above the tank.

[Jesse]

The main problem with a gravity return is that the sump must be placed above the aquarium--an arrangement that your wife would likely find aesthetically unpleasing. I'd run a standard wet/dry with around a 80 to 100 gallon sump located in the stand--much cleaner looking, IMO.

[M|L]

I agree, and as I've stated before, the sump would still require a large water pump regardless of whether it's placed on the bottom or the top of the main aquarium.

[guesswho2005]

I want the water well filtered mechanically before it hits the bioballs but am still unsure of the best way to go about it.Is anyone familiar with bead filters used for swimming pools and ponds. As far as circulation, I think pulling 3000 gph from the bottom and returning it to the top will provide plenty.

I have several designs for bead filters and I have seen a couple here on this site. Good luck and send pics building a rather large tank myself and would been very interested in anything you come with. If you would like to see some of the things I've been working on to get ready for my set-up PM me.

[rayman45]

do u have pics of your idea?
like a m/s paint draxing?


btw did u get my last pm

[sephir420]

i would recomend against the gravity feed filter with it above the tank. we have tride that and it was more problematic. i would say a sump would be a much better idea.

[slapper]

After much thought I've decided that my gravity return Idea is flawed. Running the water through cartrige filters before the bioballs would cause inconsistant flow (circulation and oxygenation) for the tank because the filters would rapidly clog. Also the food source (ammonia) for the bioballs would not be constant causing cycling. I just picked up a 120 gallon today which has slits cut in the bottom of the overflow to take in water along with the normal top skimmer. I'm still going to use a cartrige filter by pulling water from and returning it back to the sump which will indirectly purify the water going to the bioballs. I've also decided not to build the big tank. The guy who built my 120 gave me a great price on a 600 gallon (4'x8'x30'' tall and he's local. Thanks everyone for the input.

[slapper]

I have several designs for bead filters and I have seen a couple here on this site. Good luck and send pics building a rather large tank myself and would been very interested in anything you come with. If you would like to see some of the things I've been working on to get ready for my set-up PM me.
Do you know how a bead filter works because i dont. Is it biological or mechanical or both. If it's mechanical, how small of a partical does it filter?

[redtailfool]

Do you know how a bead filter works because i dont. Is it biological or mechanical or both. If it's mechanical, how small of a partical does it filter?


Its biological. Going back to your original plan, i think putting drains at the bottom
is dangerous. Imagine if something was to go wrong all the water in your tank could potentially go out of the tank, into the sump and could eventually end up on the floor.

It could be a costly disaster. I would stick with an overflow.

[PeacockBass]

The main problem with a gravity return is that the sump must be placed above the aquarium--an arrangement that your wife would likely find aesthetically unpleasing. I'd run a standard wet/dry with around a 80 to 100 gallon sump located in the stand--much cleaner looking, IMO.


to small!! 200 gallons would be better!!!


Haha!

[ashdavid]

Ever thought about a pool sand filter?

[shovelnose]

:topic: i'm curious about the tank building do you have plans? i'm thinking of building a 300 or so if it's not too challenging. :feedback:

[PeacockBass]

there is no need for something fancy.

Its ALL about media volume and media usage.


40-50 gallons of media would perfect. WITH a 200 gallon sump.

That would be a phat set up.

[slapper]

:topic: i'm curious about the tank building do you have plans? i'm thinking of building a 300 or so if it's not too challenging. :feedback:
garf.org is a good site for a plywood tank but I dont agree with jointing plywood to plywood at a 90 degree angle. The joint isn't very strong. Much better to use quality 2x2's on all inside corners. aquaticeco.com is a good place to get the paint.