Are Koi Strong?

[ccdoido38]

not muscle wise but health wise.

can they live in bodies of water with ammonia and nitrite/nitrate that would kill most other fish(especially tropicals)
and with no oxygen?

first, since i've seen alot of medium sized ponds that are PACKED with koi. so much you can literally walk across the pond. and no this is not because all of the fish are gathered in one spot because of feeding time, but it is always like this.
is it because koi can breathe air?

and also i've seen a tiny pond in Japan on someone's frontyard. the pond was dug out of ground and made with concrete, but the pond was only around 3x1x1'.
and there were around three 15" black koi swimming in the black water.
no filter, air pump nothing(as it was outside). no waterfall, etc.
and the water was all murky and can't even see the bottom. so i'm sure there's a pretty descent amount of ammonia and nitrite in the water but the fish seemed to act fine and swim/jump fine when i tried netting them out.

so my point is, how come koi can live in really small man made ponds without biological filtration and live like that?
is it that they can live but they are suffering?

i understand if they're in a wild lake or pond, since it is natural and established but why in a man made pond?

[Mystix212]

I would think that they are strong but they do not breathe atmospheric air. Heres a pond stocked with koi less then 2 feet.

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/6004/koiriverow0.jpg

[Venom]

Look at the kid's face LOL

[ccdoido38]

thanks mystix, i can't see the pic though..
any link to it?

so you're saying the water quality can be slightly bad, but they need oxygen?

[Mystix212]

Ill post the pic again for you.
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/3543/koiriveryr2.jpg
Every fish NEEDS oxygen LOL. Water quality doesnt really determine the D.O (Dissolved Oxygen) level. The higher the temp, the less D.O is in the water. Vice versa for colder temps. This is why you see goldfish gasp when kept in tropical conditions. By slightly bad water quality, how bad do you mean? 80 ppm Nitrates? 28,000ppm Nitrates?

[ccdoido38]

i mean like oxygen fish....especially like lungfish. and although shorter amounts of time out of water; pirarucu, carp, and bichirs. etc.

oh i see the pics now. i thought you meant a bunch of koi packed in a 2foot pond.
yeah but that seems fine since they're just packed in one area during feeding time.
i meant like ponds that are like that, but throughtout the whole entire pond, all the time.

i'm not sure about parameters but it must be bad if it gets no clean water other than rain water. three 15" koi in a 3foot pond all the time. and the water is a murky green/black coloration. i'm thinking that water is bad. how come the koi are living there for years?

i'm not sure if it's the same pond but there was one that had a constant trickle of crisp clean mountain fresh spring water. if that's in the 3foot pond with the koi, then i'm not too worried about filtration, but again i don't think this was the pond with it..

[Peter McFarlane]

I've seen koi kept in the most awful conditions. People who have a "goldfish pond" in there garden, no pump running, no water changes over many many years and yet the koi seem happy and healthy and grow well.

Lets not forget koi carp were once upon a time common carp when the monks cultivated them back in the 13th century!

[xspainx69]

I just purchased a 4 Inch Koi today at my fish store. I didnt notice until I got home that he has some sort of wound near the tail. I dont have any pictures at the moment. But the Koi is very active and eats like a monster which tells me that this particular injury does not seem to be effecting it too much. I currently have him in a 10 gallon tank with a goldfish his same size.

(I know how big they get)


I put 5ml (half a cap) of Melafix in the water. Do you guys think that he will heal just fine?

Thanks
Manny:headbang2

[Peter McFarlane]

Manny post a picture of the fish, try and get a shot of damage so we can look and see if it looks bad...

I've had koi try and jump out and hit themselves on the pond edge, they've always healed relatively well. Does it look like its had a knock? Or maybe something else? Describe it a bit or ideally get a pic.

Good luck with getting him well again.

[tunerX]

Koi are very hardy. They can deal with alot of conditions that can kill other fish.

[Jkoziatek]

yeah koi are pretty tough, and u'd be surpised but so are those lil goldfish u buy for 99 cents haha

[xspainx69]

Manny post a picture of the fish, try and get a shot of damage so we can look and see if it looks bad...

I've had koi try and jump out and hit themselves on the pond edge, they've always healed relatively well. Does it look like its had a knock? Or maybe something else? Describe it a bit or ideally get a pic.

Good luck with getting him well again.


It seems like it had a small chunk biten off or scraped off. Its not on the tail but near the end right before the tail begins. So far the Koi is holding on while I treat the tank with Melafix, just in case some sort of an infection decides to come out. Im pretty much using the Melafix as a preventative.

[MicropterusSalmoides]

i beleive most goldfish and carp can live in the ****tiest of water conditions wich is why they are recomended as 'beginer' fish. i might be wrong.

[ccdoido38]

even high ammonia and nitrite levels?


murky water doesn't mean bad water quality. just as clear water doesn't mean healthy water

[Mystix212]

i beleive most goldfish and carp can live in the ****tiest of water conditions wich is why they are recomended as 'beginer' fish. i might be wrong.
Goldfish and Carp are some of the most hardiest fish around, but no carp should be sold as a beginenr fish.

Ammonia burns the gills and every fish is effected by it. It should never exist in your tank once it has cycled. Nitrite on the other hand is passed through the gills and attacks the heamoglobin of the blood which restricts oxygen flow throughout the fish. The result is death. This too should never be present in your tank.

[ccdoido38]

how come some of the "cycling fish" can handle the high ammounts during cycling?

[Acer]

how come some of the "cycling fish" can handle the high ammounts during cycling?

I think it is just a function of their natural tolerance to higher amounts of ammonium.

Selling goldfish (well, fancy ones anyways) as beginner fish has always bothered me. Placing a fish that can grow very large and produces a lot of waste in the tiniest volume of water... seems like when people thought about what to make the standard beginner fish, they weren't thinking it through all the way.

Surviving and flourishing are two different things. Koi or goldfish may hang in there in terrible conditions, but that really isn't proper fishkeeping... they will be stunted, susceptible to opportunistic infections, and it is cruel, so why make a hobby of it?

I keep goldfish, and don't let the nitrates get over 20 ppm; that is the absolute maximum.

[Danyal]

"cycling fish" is just another way of say its a cheap, common fish that nobody gives a damn about, if i were to cycle a tank w/ say a pike cichlid or oscars everybody would be pissed at me but not if i used danios nobody would really care. there should be no such thing as a cycling fish, fishless cycling is the way to go.

[xspainx69]

yeah my Koi is getting worse now the injury in the tail got worse and its spreading red more on the tail. Also his scales are protruding so that doesn't sound to good. If he gets any worse he'll meet Mr. Largemouth Bass before his last breath.:naughty:

[ccdoido38]

"cycling fish" is just another way of say its a cheap, common fish that nobody gives a damn about, if i were to cycle a tank w/ say a pike cichlid or oscars everybody would be pissed at me but not if i used danios nobody would really care. there should be no such thing as a cycling fish, fishless cycling is the way to go.


yeah; golden arowana or white cloud..same thing!
that's what i don't like about some people here, it seems "racist" towards the fish

[chesterfieldzoo]

Koi are very hardy. I had one jump out of a pond and spent about an hour baking on the patio. I peeled her off the flagstone (leaving all her scales behind) and put her back in the pond, rubbed her gills till I could pry them open and spent half an hour pumping her gills and moving her around. That was 4 years ago. She is still doing fine and easy to spot due to the scale damage. I have seen ponds pea green with all the koi happy and eating. They actually prefer slightly murky ponds with mud bottoms. I used to house goldfish and koi together until the goldfish got some fungus and every one of them died (30) and not one of the koi got sick.