View Full Version : PerrunoxTSN Hybrid
Miguel
07-07-2008, 1:10 PM
I was given a baby hybrid, supposedly a cross between RTC and TSN. I would bet everything that if it is a hybrid it is a Perruno/TSN, because it so much feels like a Perruno...( I have no camera at home, camera is on hollyday:irked:).
It has the body structure of a TSN, with a different upper fin, which is more sail like, and the body has no stripes, but dark circles...actually the whole fish is considerably darker than a pure TSN.
It is hyperactive, compared with a TSN. I've put it in the sump ( due to its size ) and it already senses my approach and picks the food out of my hands....
From all the pix you guys post of RTC/TSN hybrids, I am positive this is not such a fish..
Now would anyone have a pix of such a cross?:)
necrocanis
07-07-2008, 1:38 PM
I have pics somewhere. I don't think it's a perruno though I think it's L. longibarbis. Mine died nearly two years ago and now is a skeleton. I compared it's skeleton to my longibarbis and my tsn skeleton and I am 100% that's the cross. Marble x TSN. No side pics sorry. This one was 19" when it died.
dragonfish
07-07-2008, 2:10 PM
That is a sweet looking cat. It's on my wish list. Good luck with yours Miguel and pics when you can.
Miguel
07-07-2008, 2:14 PM
I have pics somewhere. I don't think it's a perruno though I think it's L. longibarbis. Mine died nearly two years ago and now is a skeleton. I compared it's skeleton to my longibarbis and my tsn skeleton and I am 100% that's the cross. Marble x TSN. No side pics sorry. This one was 19" when it died.
No Neo, has nothing to do with this one..body structure allmost TSN and the black circles are very dark and big black dots.....
headbanger_jib
07-08-2008, 2:45 AM
borrow your neighbors cam and get the pics
i am really excited to see this hybrid :drool:
channarox
07-08-2008, 3:30 AM
:iagree:
necrocanis
07-08-2008, 7:00 AM
I have pics from the previous owner of this one when it was a baby. It looked like how you discribe, but they undergo a drastic change like most cats do from when they are little to when they are big. Here's one of the pics I have.
necrocanis
07-08-2008, 7:02 AM
if it's different than this I'll be twice as excited to see it. Been a while since I've seen a new tsn cross.
Miguel
07-08-2008, 7:46 AM
That one ( in the photo ) is very near to it, except mine is somewhat darker and has no stripes. Just dark dots. Not pimple sized, real black dots ( like the perruno )
is that pix of a perruno hybrid, Neocranis?
basslover34
07-08-2008, 8:30 AM
OK just because it's bugging me, it's NECROCANIS!!! :ROFL:
it would depend on the age compared to the one in the pic that Necro put up of a Marble (longbarbis) Hybrid... there is no way that it's going to be a pure purruno as if your going to have one to breed why would you waste your time on a cheap hybrid when you could be making big bucks for making pure Purrunos?
I'm 95% Positive that you have a Marble X TSN as it's the only discription that works... with out a pic we will never be 100%
Miguel
07-08-2008, 5:04 PM
Ok, just because it's bugging me, it is Perruno, not Puruno! heheh
The fish is very much alike to the one in the 2nd pix....AND, thais not a Marble hybrid....
The marble hybrid on the first pix has not a TSN front....
So my question to you all, and NeoNecocranis is if that 2nd pix is of perruno hybrid....in a week i'll have the pix, I hope...
fishlover88
07-08-2008, 5:22 PM
no he told you that the fish in the pic was a TSN/Marble. As yours is most likely. The only reason any of us argue that yours is not a Perruno mix, is because perrunos are so hard to come by. there is even a thread that is here asking for true perruno owners to come forward. And i think maybe 2 people have a true perruno. And hybrids are all different, the genetics work out differently. Some TSN/RTC look more like one or the other. So its entirely possible that yours has more Marble qualities than TSN.
But that is the main reason we all have a problem with the Perruno possibility, because its just such a rare find anymore.
basslover34
07-08-2008, 5:42 PM
And just to clarify that is the Same fish in pic one and two LOL ... you are correct about perruno though and I humbly regret making that spelling mistake ;) :grinno: lol
necrocanis
07-08-2008, 10:17 PM
The two catfish in the two different pics are one in the same. As stated before this was the pic I was provided by the previous owner when I asked for baby pics. I don't know how many tsn babies and baby hybrids I have raised, but they all undergoe drastic changes in their body shape and their patterns especially. When really small almost all catfish with spots are almost solid black and as they grow the pattern breaks up. The spots stay the same size and as the fish gets bigger the spots and stripes don't. Like my rtc was black with a brown tail when I bought him, and now he's olive colored with black dots all over and a red tail. My tsn that was the smallest was solid black with a redish stripe down it's side, and I thought maybe I had a different species, but as it grew and the stripes developed it became apparent that I had a fasciatum just like all the others I had owned. Then there's my jau who when 2" long was pink with large black spots. Now he's grey with small black spots at 9". Just saying you can expect a huge change in that fish over the next year, and don't believe all the hype that pet stores and importers rave about when they take it upon themselves to rename a fish to make it sell better. I bought a supposed perruno before to get it and find out that it was a common marble. It's marketing hype. The guy you got it from probably bought it from someone who marketed it as a perruno hybrid so that he could charge just a little more. Because that would be to date the only true perruno hybrid that I have ever seen, and honestly no one has yet shown me any real evidence that they even have a true perruno. I made the thread for it and still a no show.
Anyway I'm not trying to beat you up, just saying it's hard to believe in a perruno hybrid, but you are in SA right? So if anyone can get their hands on one it should be you. So I truely hope that it is a perruno hybrid, and if it is I would like to know where I can get one. lol Good luck with it and post tons of pics of it's developement so that we can all share in it together.
Miguel
07-09-2008, 1:11 AM
thank you guys. Never would have thought pix 1 and 2 were of the same guy...
Nobody told me it was a Perruno hybrid. As i've had Perruno's ( more than 10 years ago ), this little guy so much reminded me of one that I "guessed" ( after comparing it to all your hybrids ) that this looked more Perrunish to me...But it is my uneducated guess, not being a catfish specialist as you guys are...
I am in southern europe, not SA.
Thanks again....
necrocanis
07-09-2008, 8:23 AM
sounds cool. Can't wait to see some pics of the little guy. I don't think that not being perruno would detract anything from this one. Still very curious to see it's growth rate when small.
Miguel
07-14-2008, 4:39 PM
What say you ? What is it?:)
fishlover88
07-14-2008, 7:09 PM
that guy is wicked looking. Its like a sailfin shovelnose. :D
im still gonna say it is a marble/TSN mix. but i would definately wait for one of the true masters to chime in.
necrocanis
07-15-2008, 12:17 AM
As said before the pic I had is the only baby pic I've ever seen as I got mine at 19" already. We'll just have to see how your little guy develops. Looks pretty sweet though and makes me want another one to raise from a baby. I also want a baby rtc x tsn hybrid to rais frome a baby. lol
basslover34
07-15-2008, 8:08 AM
IMO %100 TSN x Marble... it's at the weird stage that a TSN doesn't look very gracefull... but these guys look amazing at all sizes :D
necrocanis
07-15-2008, 2:11 PM
reminds me a lot of my MRTC. Now he's nearly 18" lol.
Miguel
07-15-2008, 6:37 PM
and I start to think you guys are right ( after checking the perruno thread )
Hello,
atm are many Leiarius pictus/TSN Hybrids on the Market, I have one too.
Perhaps thats right, but mine looks a bit different to yours.
necrocanis
07-18-2008, 1:50 AM
please provide pics. As far as is known this hybrid is not available at all, but not impossible. I've doubted that someone had a paroon x rtc and was definitely proved wrong. Let's see it though. I love new hybrids. I know they destroy the hobby, and the world obviously, but if the genes will mix I wanna know what they look and act like lol.
Hello,
donīt have an own picture atm, but you can see some here -
http://board.raubsalmler.de/album_showpage.php?pic_id=5517
http://board.raubsalmler.de/album_showpage.php?pic_id=5473
http://board.raubsalmler.de/album_showpage.php?pic_id=5516
necrocanis
07-18-2008, 2:43 PM
after comparing dorsal fin ray count, eye size and placement plus pattern I'd say that all three baby pics in this thread are the same thing marble x tsn.
Miguel
07-18-2008, 6:01 PM
It looks EXACTLY like mine...
Hello neocranis,
for me they are for sure L.pictus x TSN ;)
It even has the white line from bellyfin to topfin and the spots like an L.pictus.
And I donīt know why dorsal fin counting makes sence at a hybrid?!
basslover34
07-19-2008, 7:15 PM
They are Leiarius longibarbis hybrids... not L.Pictus... Easy to confuse though ;)
We don't know what the ray count would be with a P.perruno and a TSN but I would assume that it would be different than that of a L.Longibarbis X TSN which is what Necro has as a comparision to. :D
Hope this clears things up abit :D