View Full Version : mean cichlid
pufferking
06-06-2005, 9:46 PM
what do u guys consider to be the most bad a$$ cichlid? i think green terror or red devil
Vitaliy
06-06-2005, 11:23 PM
I dont respect Green Terrors anymore, I have tried keeping them a few times and each and one ended up being a big puss. I would say Dovii, Umbee, and then something like breeding Red Devil. :)
redtailfool
06-06-2005, 11:25 PM
I agree . Doviis are maniacs and Umbees. They are all muscle and are piscivores. Real maniacs. Trimacs and Flowerhorns are psychos too.
rayman45
06-06-2005, 11:36 PM
rd
WckedMidas
06-06-2005, 11:55 PM
so far in my exspeiende its been midas, polleni, and flowerhorns that are meanest out of what ive had and have
shovelnose
06-06-2005, 11:57 PM
green terrors are pretty soft they only seem to terrorize the decor in the tank i'd go with the rd as the meanest
Vitaliy
06-06-2005, 11:59 PM
Dovii will basically kill every other cichlid out there because of its size alone (~30").
http://cichlidpress.pair.com/photos/par-dovii.jpg
Oh yeah, dont forget Buttikoferi!
piranha45
06-07-2005, 12:35 AM
dovii are definitely capable, but I definitely wouldn't count out B. microlepis or Cichla temensis.... I hear temensis can ram other fish like a freight train.
but if we're going ounce-for-ounce killing potential, T. dhonti, M. chipokae, and H. fasciatus are prolly top dogs from what I've heard.
Vitaliy
06-07-2005, 12:40 AM
dovii are definitely capable, but I definitely wouldn't count out B. microlepis or Cichla temensis.... I hear temensis can ram other fish like a freight train.
but if we're going ounce-for-ounce killing potential, T. dhonti, M. chipokae, and H. fasciatus are prolly top dogs from what I've heard.
I did not know Cichla temensis was a Cichlid, just looked it up. :x
Melanochromis chipokae aint ****, unless you mean something else by that M.
No clue whats H. Fasciatus is.
piranha45
06-07-2005, 12:44 AM
my own male chipokae was pretty mean, but he still got slain by a smaller johanni. many other people though swear they are total thugs though
H. fasciatus is related to H. bimaculatus. You wouldn't think a river-dwelling cichlid similar to the jewel in bod structure would be on the top aggression list, but like the chipokae, many people swear...
my midas was a mean pecker, he made my male devil try to fly out of the tank constantly hehe but then again my lil female beats him time to time also. I got a Dovii pair and the male is starting to get pretty agressive :)
scat66
06-07-2005, 7:23 AM
Polleni would boss my jack
ssmredman
06-07-2005, 9:30 AM
i prefer Red Star Flower Horns they have trimac blood in them so they are really mean and agressive towards others.
dovii are definitely capable, but I definitely wouldn't count out B. microlepis or Cichla temensis.... I hear temensis can ram other fish like a freight train.
but if we're going ounce-for-ounce killing potential, T. dhonti, M. chipokae, and H. fasciatus are prolly top dogs from what I've heard.
I have kept all the species mentioned excluding temensis. H.fasciatus are grossly overated in aggresion. They are only hyper aggresive toward other similar looking fish. Otherwise I consider them a better equiped salvini. The emperor cichlids that I kept are also agggresive towards each other they could not give a lick about other fish unless they could eat it. T.dhonti are rough for sure however when not spawning they are on par with chipokae. Chipokae are mean indeed and they are aggresive towards all fish however they seem to calm down in a properly stocked tank. Temensis as I hear are quite aggresive when breeding and will ram fish to death. But then again a full grown temensis will weigh over 10 pounds so it would not have to try hard to take out other fish in a aquarium setting. This is rather puzzling because unlike largemouth bass in the wild who will stand their ground when guarding fry, temensis will flee with their babies rather stand there ground, Like so many other species do.
In my opinon dovii,festae and umbie are tops in aggresion
piranha45
06-07-2005, 4:39 PM
gotten any word on beani? everything I've heard from says they're mostly just hype, too.
would you say elongatus and fasciatus are on par with one another?
CentralMayhem
06-07-2005, 7:23 PM
fasciatus get large enough to demolish any salvini ever to swim in water. not that they are that aggressive, but size wise they get BIG. elongatus are meaner but smaller. dovii rules hands down. ive had mean ass devils and midas', but even the 16 to 20" devils and midas' they had at steinhart aquarium were no match for a full sized male dovii. they have the size and dentition to destroy **** quickly. devils and midas get mean at a younger smaller age. you take a mature dominant dovii and a mature dominant devil/midas, and it would be an embarrasement to devil/midas fans. of wich i am one myself. but be honest look at that bastards teeth. add some size and aggression to that and you got a bad ass muthafuka.
fasciatus get large enough to demolish any salvini ever to swim in water. not that they are that aggressive, but size wise they get BIG. elongatus are meaner but smaller. dovii rules hands down. ive had mean ass devils and midas', but even the 16 to 20" devils and midas' they had at steinhart aquarium were no match for a full sized male dovii. they have the size and dentition to destroy **** quickly. devils and midas get mean at a younger smaller age. you take a mature dominant dovii and a mature dominant devil/midas, and it would be an embarrasement to devil/midas fans. of wich i am one myself. but be honest look at that bastards teeth. add some size and aggression to that and you got a bad ass muthafuka.
You misunderstand me. When I said they are better equiped salvini I meant they are better equiped in everyway size, speed and power included. Although only when full grown. Although elongatus are certainly more aggresive both are hyped in the aggresion department IME. And somehow frempongi have been hyped in recent years as being the most aggresive of the three when they are in reality the least aggresive. When it comes to pure destroying power dovii are indeed tops. Trimacs and festae can also wipe out other fish in a flash as well.
Beani are different story. I have heard that there legendary aggresion is hyped from a few people that I know who have kept adults. Although they are still a very aggresive fish.
Fossochromis rostratus - Just doesn't give up, even more so then the large malawi 'Haps'.
Dovii, Umbee, Flowerhorns, Festae, Red Devils, Midas (in that order).
If size isn't an issue, Hericthys (Nandopsis) bartoni are super mean, convicts, many of the Mbuna tribe.
I think a lot of what makes a super 'killer' fish is actually having a smaller, more powerful mouth with a big attitude. How many times have people tried mixing Oscars and Red devils only to have the red devils snap the lower mandible of the oscar when they lip lock? Now I don't mix them unless the size differences doesn't warrant the oscar challenging the centrals.
I also find that the tank size plays a huge part in determining aggression. In my 230, my midas are pussycats. Put them in a 50 or 90 gallon, and it can only be a 1 fish aquarium sooner or later. In a 50 gallon, I would bet on the midas overtaking the Dovii, but in a 230, I am sure the dovii would beat out the devil. Anyone experience this? I don't really notice Doviis getting any more aggressive in a smaller tank. Might just be my with a fairly 'tame' Dovii.
Thats the thing about midas and devils. All they need is some space and they are calm. Small tanks do not provide enogh space so they are hyper aggresive. But put them in a tank with enough space and they are almost shy. Dovii on the other hand base there territory on the space avaliable. They will be just as aggresive in a 125 as in 265. Thats why they are held in higher regard that midas and devils on the aggresion scale.
bluedempsey
06-08-2005, 5:32 PM
i have a motoguense that is mean as hell
Completely agree with you GTS! Not quite shy, as mine still do fight in my 230, but they definitely aren't hyper aggressive like they would be in small tanks. I am thinking this is PROBABLY true with Doviis as well, but we would have to get one of the indoor pond keepers to confirm this one. I did forget to add Butts in there as well, and have seen them behave the same in a 330 gallon as they do in a 50 gallon.
I guess the point I was TRYING to make (I admit, not very clear) is that the answer to the question 'what is the most aggressive cichlid' really depends on how you keep it. I have seen hyper-aggessive RDs and Midas in 33 gallons and 50 gallons, where they come out at the glass displaying at you, then proceeding to bite the glass, but I have never seen a Dovii in a 50 gallon showing THAT much aggression. However, as GTS pointed out, the Midas would be much more pacified in a 265, but the Dovii seems to act the same.
I experienced the two most 'aggressive' fish about 15 years ago:
1) Pair of convicts. Male would slam himself HARD against the glass, and if you rested your hand on the lid, he would actually jump out smacking the lid in an effort to bite you. Not the greatest example since they were about to breed, but for pure aggression, I think the example stands.
2) Bought 2 Pseudotropheus (Matriclima) 'Zebra' sp. On the drive home, they were fighting in the bag. How many cichlids will actually fight in a bag if you are holding the bag?
If we are talking about what fish can will kill what fish, well, in a 300 gallon, I don't think there are any single fish (excluding breeding pairs of anything) that can really stand up to a Male Dovii or Butt.
In a 50 gallon, I do believe that a Red Devil would probably beat on the Dovii (or at least act way more aggressive than the Dovii would). I haven't kept Dovii's for a very long time though (hopefully the guy at the LFS will sell me his display pair he has at the moment), so perhaps I am forgetting how nasty they are.
rayman45
06-08-2005, 8:55 PM
i was gunna say convicts
mean ****ing fish
i see a 8"er meannnn
My 14" male dovii is just as aggresive towards other fish whether in his usual 180 or in my 265 gallon. He is an all out ******* no matter what sized tank it is. As far as a dovii losing in 50 gallon to a midas I dont agree. The midas would certainly be more likely to stand up to it but in the end would be beaten by the dovii.
On the other hand I can drop my 13" male midas in the 265 and he is very calm and does not bother the other fish unless they start something. On the other hand my dovii we still be an ass hole attacking fish in there own territory as he would in a smaller tank. Also dont confusing a tank banging , gill flaring fish with an aggresive one. I have a green terror who will attack me when I walk by attack finger and even biting me if I put my hand in the tank. But in a fight he is a puss. Just because a dovii doesnt attack you does not mean they wont attack another fish.
piranha45
06-08-2005, 10:32 PM
If we are talking about what fish can will kill what fish, well, in a 300 gallon, I don't think there are any single fish (excluding breeding pairs of anything) that can really stand up to a Male Dovii or Butt.
.
a fellow by the name of Rod (Dovieye) had a ~15" butti in a 500g with a 20" dovii and some other parachromis. One day the dovii started slaughting the other fish, and the first to go was the butti. Obviously there's a major size difference, but nonetheless...
He posted up pics, and I linked them here, but I'm too lazy to find the link right now :P Has a partially descaled butti floating face-down in the background with a dovii menacing the camera in the foreground :D
a fellow by the name of Rod (Dovieye) had a ~15" butti in a 500g with a 20" dovii and some other parachromis. One day the dovii started slaughting the other fish, and the first to go was the butti. Obviously there's a major size difference, but nonetheless...
He posted up pics, and I linked them here, but I'm too lazy to find the link right now :P Has a partially descaled butti floating face-down in the background with a dovii menacing the camera in the foreground :D
I remember that picture.
gilly
06-08-2005, 11:10 PM
which cichlid would you say is the meanest to people. My dovii is quite docile to me but my pikes are nasty to hands and fingers
piranha45
06-08-2005, 11:39 PM
midas devils trimacs flowerhorns, any of those kept in isolation will turn into hand-destroying brutes
MrfisH
07-14-2005, 7:32 PM
Im not that well versed in s/a chiclids but can you really compare those and central american chiclids? Anyway I go red devil.
MrfisH
07-14-2005, 7:41 PM
or even central american cichlids. lol (should prolly review my posts)
spryandspringy
07-14-2005, 7:45 PM
Ounce for ounce, pound for pound, I'd have to go with the Convict. They may not be huge. They may not be exotic or rare. And, they may not be the flashiest, toothiest, most impressive of cichlids. But they have the attitude of an axe murderer on a bad day.
I would have to say : My breeding pair of Jaquars Male 22"ins ,Female 19" and my Dovii and My 33" ins Barmanday(sp) Perch.....
Decoy
jaimoe
07-14-2005, 11:19 PM
I got a red zebra that is absolutely ruthless especially to newcomers. And an elongatus that is starting to show some potential as he gets bigger.
Cichla temensis and dovii :)
fishnthings
07-15-2005, 11:57 AM
i want a dovi. r they illegal. this cichlid looks bad a**. does anyone know where i can get one and what price?
piranha45
07-15-2005, 12:42 PM
i want a dovi. r they illegal. this cichlid looks bad a**. does anyone know where i can get one and what price?
$5-$10 at your local lfs. not illegal. I would not recommend a male dovii for a 220g, as dovii cichlids reach 2 feet in length and would have a hard time just turning around in such a tank. If you were willing to get a larger tank in a couple years, though...
managuense, trimac, festae cichlids are all on par with dovii, except they could live in your 220g for life no problem.
I agree with you with everything you said except for managuense being on par with dovii,festae and trimacs. Most of the time a managuense would be killed any of those fish in a community setting.
piranha45
07-16-2005, 12:38 PM
im trying to generalize my advice down to noob comprehension, dont nitpick ok :P
Mechanic
07-16-2005, 1:47 PM
Thats the thing about midas and devils. All they need is some space and they are calm. Small tanks do not provide enogh space so they are hyper aggresive. But put them in a tank with enough space and they are almost shy. Dovii on the other hand base there territory on the space avaliable. They will be just as aggresive in a 125 as in 265. Thats why they are held in higher regard that midas and devils on the aggresion scale.
I have heard that about red devils too.
Thats why when my 8" devil was looking cramped I put him in a 200 gallon
figureing that at least now I could do a couple of tankmates.
NOPE! He still destroys anything that hits the water.
Water changes are also a blood drawing experience as well.
I always get out the band aids first.
later
Eric
piranha45
07-16-2005, 1:52 PM
you have an awesome red devil.
tropicalfishguy
07-16-2005, 11:30 PM
I have a 12" Flowerhorn and its probably the meanest cichlid I have had so far
dont forget hemichromis fasciatus
jelly
07-21-2005, 10:42 AM
Neetroplus nematopus are another ounce for ouncer. Supposed to be even more aggressive than Convicts. They are small, They are predated on by Dovii in their natural environment.
I would say a Convict was as aggressive as a Devil, they just haven’t got the size to really do any damage to larger fish.
I have a Jaguar that thrashes at the glass every time I go near the tank, He also attacks me when I stick my arm in the tank.
Interesting images of a Jaguar.
http://www.endlichericlub.net/forums/showthread.php?t=417
Meniscus
07-21-2005, 2:35 PM
I have a Texan in a 120, still a juvi, but is a good 8" long and quite big. He is a big jerk. He thrashes at the tank sometimes, and has eaten 2 of his smaller tank mates. They have a good reputation for being mean Cichlids. This one isn't nearly as bad as I expected though, he is pretty slow so the other fish can easily avoid him...
Thomas_Hung
07-22-2005, 1:22 AM
Ounce for ounce, pound for pound, I'd have to go with the Convict. They may not be huge. They may not be exotic or rare. And, they may not be the flashiest, toothiest, most impressive of cichlids. But they have the attitude of an axe murderer on a bad day.
haha, I'll agree with you there!!
But my 5" female flowerhorn is a real b*tch!! She keeps killing my damn plecos!!
polomax24
07-22-2005, 6:19 AM
I thought this thread is all about the aggression but not about the size. Some of fish mentioned in this thread are just big and predatory but not necessarily aggressive. I am sure a docile blue whale can kill a tiger if the whale somehow lands on the tiger, but it does not mean that the whale is aggressive.
Peanut_Power
07-22-2005, 6:52 AM
From what I've personally experienced....Amphilophus festae is one of the more aggressive species. It seems though, that if you have enough tank space and enough fish to distract them, they can be kept with other fish. So its really relative to your own opinion I think. This is really a rather frustrating question cuz everyone seems to think they are right and no one is ever gonna really agree to one cichlid being the most aggressive. Granted there are several cichlid species out there that are indeed rather aggressive, but i don't think we are ever gonna know which one is the most aggressive. Stupid blue whales...don't they know Tigers are endangered?!
toxicfish
07-23-2005, 5:01 PM
The only aggresive thing abt a Green Terror is it's name.:22_yikes:
smellsfishy
07-24-2005, 6:54 PM
All I know is my Red Devil left only the head of my once 6" Green Terror. Nice of him isn't it. Not to mention the Red Devil also eat my oscar the next day for dinner.
I go with RED DEVIL all the way. He hunts for fun.
I also agree about the green terror be a little puss.
STONEDFISH
07-27-2005, 2:27 PM
I was trying to cause problems.....I had a Red Terror, Green Terror, Texas, Dempseys, Parrot, Oscars, Pleco, Asian Red Tail Cat, and a RED DEVIL all in the same tank a few years ago. The RED DEVIL was relentless, went after everyone except the parrot for some reason. Eventually I had to get rid of the devil cause it was keeping me up at night thrashing around the tank. Of all those fish mentioned above....the dempseys and the parrot are the only ones to survive the wrath of Dave the Red Devil.
I just bought a juvinille Red Devil, but he has his own tank for now.......My other fish are nervous just knowing he's in the house...hehehehe.
STNDFSH
I hate vowels
hemiboo
07-31-2005, 11:31 AM
My jewels are savage beasts. My two 3 inch jewels regularly take chunks out of 9 inch oscars
searcyb
07-31-2005, 9:41 PM
He posted up pics, and I linked them here, but I'm too lazy to find the link right now :P Has a partially descaled butti floating face-down in the background with a dovii menacing the camera in the foreground :D
I would like to see that pic. can you repost it please
jc8745
08-01-2005, 1:22 AM
Looks like most every one is picking some of the common cichlids that are available.
I say common, because red devils, green terrors and even dovii's seem mostly available at lfs.
I have looked and asked this question over the last year. My conclusion is not based on experience its, based on the questions that i have asked on various forums over time.
Umbe,
Gets big, i believe 18" - 22" easily requires 180 - 220 gallons, and will reportedly kill anything and everything placed into the tank with them, even potential mates, usually you will go through several females before a success breed. They will try and comr through the glass to try and get you. Difficult to come across at lfs, not alot of people have experiences with them, will bite hands and fingers, from what i have read, they want space, territory and to be the only fish in the tank
Fastae or Red Terror,
Around 12" - 14" fascinating red, yellow colors, pretty dang mean, and wont tolerate, tank mates, most likely will kill selected mates, attitude similar of the convict, especially during breeding, difficult to come by at lfs, not alot of people seem to have experiences with them
from what i have read, they have their territory, and like to be the dominant fish in the tank, they will try to accomplish this as it gains size.
Dovii,
I have read in smaller tanks they will kill most things, but once they hit larger tanks, they become somewhat docile, they are large, and bad looking, but in general, all they want is space and territory
Now, i do have a red devil in a 55, and he attacks the gravel cleaner, actaully anything that i stick in there for cleaning, it makes runs at the glass, and just has a chip for sure. He wants to be the only fish in this tank, i have not tried placing him in the 150 with the oscars, i may someday, but for now, he is ok in the 55
All of this is just my opinion based on what i have read.
freeform
08-01-2005, 4:22 AM
Buttikoferi are bad ass too !!!!
IoStrisciare
08-01-2005, 5:02 AM
Dovii and that other cichlid... err... Haitian Black i think...
Those two are the really Big Evils...
TheLoachGuy
08-01-2005, 1:47 PM
I always hear about how Umbees are so dominate and Dovi are mean, but damn.. I have a common pet store variety red devil that is the meanest sum-beeyatch i've ever placed in my tanks. My dovi has become more aggressive since hitting the 9" mark, and the umbee at 8" is showing more spunk, but that red devil.. wooo! Hes a stinker!
:)
African Dick
08-01-2005, 2:43 PM
Well I had a Jaguar Cichlid, and also a mean ass 4 inch african. My RD killed both of them. I found the jaguar corpse underneath a rock with only its skeletal system and a little skin remaining. I am now down to a RD, 2 convicts (paired), 3 exodons, 1 spotted raphael, pictus, and a pleco.
Looks like most every one is picking some of the common cichlids that are available.
I say common, because red devils, green terrors and even dovii's seem mostly available at lfs.
I have looked and asked this question over the last year. My conclusion is not based on experience its, based on the questions that i have asked on various forums over time.
Umbe,
Gets big, i believe 18" - 22" easily requires 180 - 220 gallons, and will reportedly kill anything and everything placed into the tank with them, even potential mates, usually you will go through several females before a success breed. They will try and comr through the glass to try and get you. Difficult to come across at lfs, not alot of people have experiences with them, will bite hands and fingers, from what i have read, they want space, territory and to be the only fish in the tank
Fastae or Red Terror,
Around 12" - 14" fascinating red, yellow colors, pretty dang mean, and wont tolerate, tank mates, most likely will kill selected mates, attitude similar of the convict, especially during breeding, difficult to come by at lfs, not alot of people seem to have experiences with them
from what i have read, they have their territory, and like to be the dominant fish in the tank, they will try to accomplish this as it gains size.
Dovii,
I have read in smaller tanks they will kill most things, but once they hit larger tanks, they become somewhat docile, they are large, and bad looking, but in general, all they want is space and territory
Now, i do have a red devil in a 55, and he attacks the gravel cleaner, actaully anything that i stick in there for cleaning, it makes runs at the glass, and just has a chip for sure. He wants to be the only fish in this tank, i have not tried placing him in the 150 with the oscars, i may someday, but for now, he is ok in the 55
All of this is just my opinion based on what i have read.
What exactly is your experince with keeping large cichlids? I have been keeping and breeding them for over 18 years and I have found that the dovii are just as aggresive in a 125 gallon as they are in a 265 gallon. Once they hit 16" they dominate all other cichlids of equal size umbee included. In fact I had to remove my old 14" umbee from because he had stopped eating because of a 12" doviis' aggresion. So personally I dont know where you red that they are only aggresive in small tanks because me and several others who have raised them strongly disagree. Umbee in my opinion are slightly over hyped in aggression you cant really listen to most aacounts on the internet because the vast majority of people have never raised an umbee to a decent size and therfore they are just repeating what they have heard from someone else who is doing the same.
Your descrpiton of a dovii is infact much more befitting of a red devil which is reality are not even the most aggresive of their genus. I have heard many many owners of red devils claim their red devils are tank banging monsters that kill anything that is put in their tank. However they are usually talking about tanks under 200 gallons. I have found that both red devils and midas will calm down considerably in tanks over 200 gallons. However festae,fernerstratus,trimaculatus,motaguensis,dovi i,umbee and a few other do not calm down they are just as aggresive.
Nate_N_Nicole
08-01-2005, 6:00 PM
Meanest American Cichlid is a Dovi only because of its size, I believe that a red devil at the same size would take care of a Dovi...
Meanest African Cichlid is a Buttikoferi barnone and the meanest cichlid in the world... Except for a Full grown Dovi... :headbang2
Just my opinion
its funny you say that. My 10" female dovii is easily dominate over my 12" male red devil in my 265 she beats him in jaw locks and everything with suprising ease. Its not a fluke as my 9" female motaguense does the same. The female mota has also killed an equal sized midas.
jc8745
08-02-2005, 12:35 AM
i think i stated that was just the information that i have gathered, and more or less these are again ranked on my opinion, i'm very glad that you have raised large cichlids for years and have enough tank space for the species that you have. I hope to someday to have an umbe, dovii and pair of festaes
i have heard from various dovii owners (not saying all, a minimal few) that were disappointed with them. I'm not saying in any manner that they are not mean or aggressive. As a matter of fact i rank them up in the top 3. I didnt rank the red devil in the top 3, i just have one.