Fx5 Owners: Flow Testing @ Different Heads?

[Jgray152]

I have been trying to get Hagen to send me a Pump Chart for the Fx5. Basically showing the Flow Rates at Different Head Pressures.

They keep saying they don't have any charts like that available.

So does anyone with a flow meter or some sort and good flow test procedure, thats owns the Fx5, be able to tell me what the flow is at different head heights?

The heights im looking for is 1,2,4,6,8. 1 foot would be the height of the canister so no tubing would be needed.

This won't be the most accurate since the intake won't be the same as the output which could hinder performance.

I just wanted to make a pump graph for the closest flow rate/head height possible.

So, anyone up for the challenge?

[Kobeclone]

Sounds interesting. I would be interested in this info....

[Jgray152]

It would be nice to have a graph of many different filters. I have one graph that I made but its not actual data. I don't wan't to upload it since it will just spark a nasty heated fight.

[Kobeclone]

It would be nice to have a graph of many different filters. I have one graph that I made but its not actual data. I don't wan't to upload it since it will just spark a nasty heated fight.

I need to clean my under tank area and do maintance on several filters today. If I have time, which I should, since I will probably be doing tank maintance instead of partying until 12:00, then I will do this.

I don't want to cut up the ribbed hosing that came with the unit though, since I don't have extra, so should I just use PVC. PVC will obviously produce higher flow rates, without bends, since how it is not ribbed....

[hbluehunter]

This will be very interesting to see the results.. I have 2 FX5's that are pumping over 5' so i can't wait to see how much flow i'm losing going that high..

[Jgray152]

I need to clean my under tank area and do maintance on several filters today. If I have time, which I should, since I will probably be doing tank maintance instead of partying until 12:00, then I will do this.

I don't want to cut up the ribbed hosing that came with the unit though, since I don't have extra, so should I just use PVC. PVC will obviously produce higher flow rates, without bends, since how it is not ribbed....

That would be great. Obveously we can't make a graph telling people EXACTLY the flow rate they will get but we give give them an idea.

PVC or Vinyl tubing. Both intake and output would have to be the same height (not just length)

Multiple test to get an average. If you have a flow meter that would be best. If you are using a bucket then I would measure the amount of waer in the bucket through weight. 8lbs per gallon minus the bucket. Maybe use a 5 gallon bucket with 5 gallons of water but only flow test 4 gallons, this way you can mark the 1 gallon height so you know when to stop.

[Jgray152]

If anyone wants to see the graph, just PM me. I will upload it and give you a link.

[Dr Joe]

Don't they have to be below tank level or just water level?

[Jgray152]

Just water level. Tank level is irrelevent. The actual water surface level is what needs to be taken into consideration.

The "HEAD HEIGHT" is the height between the pump and the the hose at the top of the bend when it goes over the rim of the tank.

In the Fx5's case. 0 Head is almost impossible to obtain since there is already about 10-12" of pipe coming up from the pump to the cover. So if you tested 1' above the cover, that would be a 2' head height.

[Jgray152]

Any updates?

[fishman646]

Im interested also

[svtim]

im useing the black ruber pond tubeing each side is about six and half foot long filter is on the ground. my flow meter maxs out at 500 gph and never falls.

[Jgray152]

What is the height between the middle of the pump on the fx5, and the top of the tank where the hoses bend over the ridge?

The Length of the hose is doesn't provide much restriction.

Also, I was thinking about those flow meter too and how I can only find them up to 500 GPH. I thought about spitting the flow through two 1" tubes and have 1 flow meter on each tube, getting the flow through each tube and adding them together to get the total flow.

[CHOMPERS]

To get the flow rate, time how long it takes to fill a one gallon milk jug (better to use a graduated container such as a measuring bowl). When you have the time, it is just a matter of a little math.

Seconds / 60 = minutes

Seconds / 360 = hours

1 gallon / (enter minutes or hours) = flow rate in gpm or gph

[CHOMPERS]

by the way, the head should be measured from hose to hose. The loss in the hose going up is countered by the gain in the hose going down. In standard canister applications where both hose outlets are at the waters surface or just below, there would be zero vertical head. In other words, it won't matter if the canister is in the tank stand or in the basement. If the application draws out of a sump and returns to the tank, then that is another matter.

[Jgray152]

it won't matter if the canister is in the tank stand or in the basement.
So a canister with the same hose length at 4' flows the same at 15'?

The loss in the hose going up is countered by the gain in the hose going down. In standard canister applications where both hose outlets are at the waters surface or just below, there would be zero vertical head.
This would mean that there is no head restriction at all. Im not sure I believe this to be true because you will not have positive pressure through the intake like you would if it was gravity fed, you will have negitive pressure due to the pump forcing water through it. There is less negitive pressure in the intake due to the gravity helping compared to pumping from a sump that is at the same level or below the pump.

The pump will still have to pump against the head pressure in the output.

[svtim]

Ill measure it tonight

[Dr Joe]

Barring frictional losses, yes

[CHOMPERS]

So a canister with the same hose length at 4' flows the same at 15'?
The simple answer is yes. But if you wanted to split hairs, the answer is no. There is still flow loss due to resistance. It works out to about one foot of head per 100 feet of run in low flow / low pressure applications.

This would mean that there is no head restriction at all. Im not sure I believe this to be true because you will not have positive pressure through the intake like you would if it was gravity fed, you will have negitive pressure due to the pump forcing water through it. There is less negitive pressure in the intake due to the gravity helping compared to pumping from a sump that is at the same level or below the pump.

The pump will still have to pump against the head pressure in the output.
You are making it more complicated than it really is. The pressure has nothing to do with it because water does not compress. If you have ever had a physics class, this is entirely a static potential energy problem. After the pump has been in operation, the kinetic engergy will cancel out and it will be the same equation as if the system were at rest.

Do the flow test using two people, one to fill a gallon container and the other person to time it. Do three trials with the canister on the floor and then three more with the caniser as close to the surface as you can get it.

[svtim]

What is the height between the middle of the pump on the fx5, and the top of the tank where the hoses bend over the ridge?

The Length of the hose is doesn't provide much restriction.

Also, I was thinking about those flow meter too and how I can only find them up to 500 GPH. I thought about spitting the flow through two 1" tubes and have 1 flow meter on each tube, getting the flow through each tube and adding them together to get the total flow.
It is five and half feet the intake goes down 15 inches and the out put goes down 6 inches. I really wish i had a meter that went over 500 gph so i could help out more.

[CHOMPERS]

Use the method in post #14.

[Kobeclone]

I apoligize that I never got around to this. I was actually called into work that day and never even got around to the maintainance on the FX5 then.

[Jgray152]

Well, your home now :)

[FireMedic]

If i may inject a thought here:

The type of pump, more specifically, the impeller design of the pump needs careful consideration.
The loose, expeller vane set-up normally found in aquarium pumps does have limitations.
Granted, I admit, my expertise comes from the fire service but pumps are pumps and water is water.
Pumps can be designed to specifically combat certain head heights but not all pumps perform the same.

Water gains or loses 5psi/10ft of elevation. This isn't a big deal for pumps designed for gpm. It is a big deal for pumps designed for gph.

Just offering some different angles to this conversation, hope it stires some thought.
Respectfully,
FireMedic.

[Jgray152]

The Fx5 uses an enclosed vane impeller. Much more efficient than open van impellers used on most filters.

So I was reading THIS (http://www.mcnallyinstitute.com/07-html/7-01.html) and it does seem that the positive suction head does increase the discharge head compaired to a pump that has a zero to negitive suction head and a positive discharge head.

Its basically telling you to get the Total Discharge Head (TDH) you need to subtract the Suction Head from the Discharge Head. Not including fittings which increase the head. So on paper, The fx5 could be use with a Suction and Dischage head of equal distance of 30'. Not taking into considerations for friction loses and elbows.

Thanks Chompers. Now I am just wondering why filter manufactures put the max discharge head on their filters specs.....

If the Fx5 has a max discharge head of 10' then they must be talking (Assuming) about a suction head at zero ft right?

[wow_it_esploded]

I believe that canister filters are much more efficient as far as headloss because the intake creates a siphon. I think that the siphon in the intake is very important to the flow because when you hook a canister to a sump and have the output in the tank you get an amazing flow reduction, with the same height. On my 75 gallon tank (about 6 feet from floor to top) a magnum 350 (with micron cartridge, bluebonded, and various other medias I stuff into the empty spaces installed) I get about 300 gph of flow. Now, if I hook it to the sump and put the outflow in the tank, I get just about 120gph. I think that canisters rely A LOT on the fact that gravity is on their side as far as inflow.