New Ray Pond - For my Flowers [Archive]

tank125

01-06-2009, 7:55 PM

I must start by saying that this may take me some time, like months, even though it is possible to do in a few days, that is not how I work, I tend to draw things out a bit.

Anyway what you are looking at in these photo's is the base = 11'3" X 8'3"

The pond interior will be 7' x 10' x 2' deep. In habitants will of course be Stingrays (the only fish truly worthy of an indoor pond!). The walls are going to be built with 2x8's to allow for a whole lot of insulation in my cold basement.

The wood is blue because it all reclaimed wood from my now dismantled fish store. What better use could there be?

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r76/31Nilo31/Stingrays/flowjay1.jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r76/31Nilo31/pond%20build/IMG_7106.jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r76/31Nilo31/pond%20build/IMG_7108.jpg

MVP of this build is my framing nail gun - no hose, runs on a fuel cell.

Conner

01-06-2009, 8:17 PM

Niiice. keep us updated with more pics as you go along! I need all the idea's I can get for when I start my plywood tank for my rays. Good luck!

turkeyboy85

01-06-2009, 8:48 PM

nice buddy, keep up the work

Flash

01-06-2009, 8:52 PM

Sweet.

Kevaldo

01-06-2009, 9:31 PM

are you going to use a pond liner for the inside of the pond ?

cjfrontlovr

01-06-2009, 10:27 PM

looks like your elevating the base with the 2x8's for insulating underneath? very good idea i think..i found a bargain on a firestone thick pond liner on ebay. worked quite well..g/l and keep us posted!

Nic

01-06-2009, 10:36 PM

:popcorn:

ronin_man

01-06-2009, 10:40 PM

thats gonna be nice !

more pics !

Gr8KarmaSF

01-06-2009, 11:42 PM

Looking forward to updates!

freshwaterfishing

01-06-2009, 11:45 PM

Great work so far, cant wait to see it completed!

spring007

01-07-2009, 12:54 AM

awesome! keep us posted!!

tank125

01-07-2009, 9:34 AM

Thanks for the encouragement! My biggest concern is heating it, the rest is easy.

Yes, I will be using a firestone liner 15' x 15'.

The base is only 2x4's, there will be a layer of foam between them and the concrete floor, as well as foam between the pond bottom and the plywood. The sides will be 2x8's that I can insulate with fiberglass.

alleykat0498

01-07-2009, 2:26 PM

Subscribed, keep us posted...

abortedsoul

01-07-2009, 3:39 PM

Best of luck on the project! Keep us posted, if you can.

rvrrays

01-07-2009, 4:44 PM

tank125

01-07-2009, 5:01 PM

Having been down this road before, you are going to want to design a lid to keep your heat loss and evaporation to a minimum.

I made mine with a PVC frame and a sheet of clear, plastic drop cloth. It kept evaporation down and let the light in but, it did not keep much heat it.

I would also suggest trimming the top of the pond with Trex deck boards that you can find at any of the major home improvement stores. They are plastic and are not effected by the moisture.

As a final note, folding the liner inside the pond neatly is not as easy as you may think. I found that placing some water in the pond helped me place the liner by holding it in place.

Good luck!

Colin

Some great points, I definitely need to make sure that I do not underestimate how wet the top rim will get when the cover is on. For the cover I already have a dozen steel wall frames (8' x 4' x 1.5") I am going to fill them with insulation of the dense foam type and skin them with plastic paneling. These will be rigid and relatively light. There will be cut-outs for lights. For the most part in the winter the this thing will be covered with just viewing windows for viewing. The lights will be set into the cover so they will have light daily on timer. I know, not ideal, but I would rather they have a lot of room and warm water.

bigriver

01-07-2009, 8:45 PM

That is going to be sweet!! your rays are going to love it.cant wait to see this when its done.

DB junkie

01-08-2009, 12:38 AM

If you use plenty of insulation and a good lid like allready mentioned, shouldn't you be able to heat it with like 8 stealth 250s? I'm at 8 by 8 and only using 4 250s, with the lids on it'll run up to about 83.

omojena

01-11-2009, 3:09 PM

hope u have a huuuge dehumidifier!

omojena

01-11-2009, 3:10 PM

guess i should have read the post that said youll have a lit... duh.. lol

Bogwoodbruce

01-11-2009, 3:12 PM

Thats gonna look awesome!

tank125

02-18-2009, 10:31 AM

Wow, progress is minimal! A month and half to do a 1/2 days work! Over built structurally, but will allow me to insulate the hell out of it.

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r76/31Nilo31/pond%20build/IMG_7308.jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r76/31Nilo31/pond%20build/IMG_7309.jpg

shadow7

02-18-2009, 10:35 AM

Wow big project ! Pls keep your updates coming..

DB junkie

02-18-2009, 11:52 AM

tank125

02-18-2009, 12:09 PM

Are you planning on using some larger lumber (like 4 by 4s) to tie all the sides together in the corners?

Curious about the elevation too...... Putting a drain in the bottom? :naughty:

That is one thing I will DEFINETLY do different when I rebuild my pond. I didn't think it was necassary but man would waterchanges be easier, plus poo would go down the drain rather than end up in the filter.

What are your plans filtration wise????

No immediate plan. I have tons of equipment laying around, large commercial type stuff like pumps, bio-towers, and mechanical units. Drain will be in the side wall, probably up high. In the display tank with built in overflows I never see poo for more than a few minutes, it ends up getting into the overflow somehow. It is going to be plumbed to the existing 300 gallon system. Ultimately I want to do a constant feed. Tricky with my copper pipes and soft/acidic water though. I will need a lot of copper resin and I have to trust it as well.

I have 1/4" Steel "L" brackets and 32 4" carriage bolts for the corners. They are just mocked up in the photo. They need be nailed down and the brackets installed.

This pond is only for my 11" flower and 9" flower for now, and maybe the MM. The 210 they are in is getting crowded, oh yeah, the tig will go down there too. So until they put on some size, the filtration will not be that big of a deal. Long term I only want 3 flowers, Tig, MM, and mantilla/MM's. So six rays and a Tig in a 7' x 10' pond.

DB junkie

02-18-2009, 1:18 PM

Wish I never saw poo....LOL I guess now that I think about it I didn't have this problem when the rays were small.... But when they are pushing a foot and a half it's there. I have to do w/c gravel vacs almost everyday. Would be much easier to flip a few valves. (drain and jets blowing towards it). Just my experience anyways...

Sounds like it will be a GREAT home. They should be some very happy rays.

I just like trading ideas and plans with fellow raykeepers, seems the rays benefit in the long run. Hence the reason for so many questions. Have to absorb as much as possible so the next time I build a pond I'm not sitting here a year down the road planning yet another rebuild cause of unforseen problems.

tank125

02-18-2009, 1:38 PM

Yes, definitely some current directed at the floor to lift things. It will bare bottom. I have a mobile cart for polishing it, removing poop, temp running of carbon, etc.

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r76/31Nilo31/Selling/cart1.jpg

ask away, that is the point!

hbluehunter

02-18-2009, 2:11 PM

Nice cart setup.. I like this thread i'm getting all the good info for when i build my ray pond.

DB junkie

02-18-2009, 2:50 PM

How bout some more info on this "filter crash cart"???

GPH, and micron size of the filters???

When/how often do you use the cart and for how long? Or is it just "use as needed for cleanliness"?

I'm pretty jealous of you you guys and them fancy carts.... Seem like they are almost common place for ray enthusiasts.

tank125

02-18-2009, 3:02 PM

Use as needed. Haven't needed it, but I imagine it will come in handy with the pond. I use it for the mixing tank to de-gas and also dissolve the salt.

20 Micron

I think it does 3600 gph?

orinocensis1

02-18-2009, 3:11 PM

can wait too see this set up!

DB junkie

02-18-2009, 3:16 PM

I bet it will definetly come in handy.......

Ponds are all fun and games till you try to use a siphon in it..... :irked:

Looking forward to updates...... :)

tank125

02-19-2009, 12:24 PM

Some shots of the brackets. Floor is going down today/tomorrow, then plywood the walls, then buy foam board for bottom and sides (1"), etc. etc. etc. Liner is coming next Thursday.

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r76/31Nilo31/pond%20build/IMG_7314.jpg

DB junkie

02-19-2009, 12:37 PM

:headbang2

Progress!!!!

Question...... Can you skip the plywood and just go with 2in pink styro insulation then just lay the liner in?

I tried this method with a smaller pond I buyilt when testing temp fluctuations. I used 1.5 in pink styro and the studs were on 10 in centers. Held just fine but I only had it set up for a few months.

tank125

02-19-2009, 12:46 PM

Well the plywood is free and using 2" foam instead of 1" is double the cost. I was told by an insulation guy that there would be no significant benefit to using 2" for my application.

DB junkie

02-19-2009, 1:12 PM

:grinno: I'm full of ideas. Problem is a majority of them are crap due to not being able to resist the temptation of overbuilding to the point where it's a complete waste of $ (like my 250lb tank stand)......:ROFL:

*end of derail*

Please continue......

tank125

02-23-2009, 6:58 PM

Update

Plywood is in for floor and walls, next is buy the foam and decide on drain location.

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r76/31Nilo31/pond%20build/IMG_7329.jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r76/31Nilo31/pond%20build/IMG_7328.jpg

RedTailKinG

02-23-2009, 6:59 PM

nice going

tank125

02-26-2009, 9:40 PM

Insulated... 1" foam and R22

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r76/31Nilo31/pond%20build/IMG_7347.jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r76/31Nilo31/pond%20build/IMG_7348.jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r76/31Nilo31/pond%20build/IMG_7349.jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r76/31Nilo31/pond%20build/IMG_7350.jpg

And lined...

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r76/31Nilo31/pond%20build/IMG_7351.jpg

next is plumbing and then the lids! Last will be to finish the exterior, so it looks presentable.

Fly River

02-27-2009, 1:54 AM

SWEET, keep the pics coming

DB junkie

02-27-2009, 9:02 AM

Interested to see the sealing of the bulkheads!!!!

I was too scared to do this.....

tank125

02-27-2009, 12:43 PM

No sealing, just hand tighten them, the liner is the gasket. I suppose you could use silicone, but no need...

nitrofish1

02-27-2009, 12:57 PM

lets see some water in there :p

DB junkie

02-27-2009, 12:59 PM

You have to be kidding me. I thought about that but figured that was just way too simple to work.

The feeling of stupidity right here is nothing shy of overwhelming right now.

tank125

02-27-2009, 1:05 PM

If you had done it, you would have figured it out. Silicone doesn't bond with the liner or the plastic bulkhead. You would have done it all, and then a day later to check on the dry silicone you would have realized that it was point less. The hard part is getting the bulkhead nut nice and tight without snapping it.

Water coming soon...

nitrofish1

02-27-2009, 1:06 PM

awesome...... just.... awesome.....

spotfin

02-27-2009, 1:07 PM

Are you going to use gaskets for the bulkheads too?

random fish guy

02-27-2009, 1:07 PM

that is a sweet start

DB junkie

02-27-2009, 1:14 PM

Are you going to use gaskets for the bulkheads too?

x2 :confused:

Better give us step by step..... Otherwise you're going to get hit up along side the avatar with a bijillion ?s.... :ROFL:

Gr8KarmaSF

02-27-2009, 2:11 PM

:popcorn:

I would love to see some drain pics...

tank125

02-27-2009, 8:28 PM

Are you going to use gaskets for the bulkheads too?

Nope. The pond is the gasket. 2 gaskets = great potential for leakage.

tank125

02-27-2009, 8:35 PM

Okay, first, the hole, it goes through the wall of plywood as well as enough plywood to match the 1" of foam board. You do not want to mount a bulkhead to foam. You can notice the squares with the holes in them in the second pic.
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r76/31Nilo31/pond%20build/IMG_7352.jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r76/31Nilo31/pond%20build/IMG_7347.jpg

Okay, now you see the bulkhead, standard one available at any lfs. This one is 1", it is a low mounted drain in case I need to lower the pond level. The rest of the bulkheads are 2" (2 x drain, 1 x return).
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r76/31Nilo31/pond%20build/IMG_7354.jpg

The whole cut crudely with a razor blade. I leave extra rather than cutting to edge of the bore.
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r76/31Nilo31/pond%20build/IMG_7355.jpg

This is the 1" bulkhead mounted from the pond side towards the outside. Note, no gasket, the liner is the gasket.
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r76/31Nilo31/pond%20build/IMG_7356.jpg

I use the supplied gasket on the back end instead, so the plastic nut can seat better than it would against my plywood. Remember hand tighten, don't use a wrench for than a quarter turn or so.
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r76/31Nilo31/pond%20build/IMG_7357.jpg

A shot of the 2 x 2" drains installed.
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r76/31Nilo31/pond%20build/IMG_7359.jpg

A shot of the top rim.
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r76/31Nilo31/pond%20build/IMG_7360.jpg

nitrofish1

02-27-2009, 8:37 PM

are you going to wait to finish up the outside to cycle it?

tank125

02-27-2009, 8:41 PM

are you going to wait to finish up the outside to cycle it?

I am just plumbing it into my existing system. I am just on the fence about letting it sit full first so as to rinse the liner. I guess I better do it! That will just be a 24 hour thing.

JamieC77

02-27-2009, 8:50 PM

Wow that is awesome! Its massive! :naughty:

tank125

03-03-2009, 6:18 AM

Okay. I lost Saturday due to a wedding and a back pain that immobilized me. Got some stuff done Sun/Mon though!

The "no ray jump out" rim is done - the inside 2x6". Also 80% of the siding is on. I think it is called T111 Plywood? It will be painted of course.

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r76/31Nilo31/pond%20build/IMG_7361.jpg

Here are some shot of the plumbing, it is all mocked up and most of it is already glued. The pump is a SHE 1.7 from Aquatic Ecosystems. 50 gpm @ 170 watts. It is plumbed to 2". The filter it goes to first is called an M-4, it is made by Pentair/Lifgard. It uses 4 x 29" 20 micron cartridges that are washable. I will likely need to clean them every 2-3 months because the drains of the pond and upstairs tank have filter socks on them to catch debris. After the M-4, some water is diverted to the 4' bio ball tower, and the rest goes back to the pond. There is more to it, but I don't want to explain right now... sorry.

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r76/31Nilo31/pond%20build/IMG_7363.jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r76/31Nilo31/pond%20build/IMG_7364.jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r76/31Nilo31/pond%20build/IMG_7365.jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r76/31Nilo31/pond%20build/IMG_7366.jpg

Still have to make the lids, should be done by the end of the week.

Total cost so far out of pocket:
Hardware for corner braces: $24 (just the nuts, washers, carriage bolts)
Foam board: $85
Liner: $112

Everything else is salvage/free. That explains the ugliness!

inkid

03-05-2009, 12:39 AM

Okay. I lost Saturday due to a wedding and a back pain that immobilized me. Got some stuff done Sun/Mon though!

The "no ray jump out" rim is done - the inside 2x6". Also 80% of the siding is on. I think it is called T111 Plywood? It will be painted of course.

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r76/31Nilo31/pond%20build/IMG_7361.jpg

Here are some shot of the plumbing, it is all mocked up and most of it is already glued. The pump is a SHE 1.7 from Aquatic Ecosystems. 50 gpm @ 170 watts. It is plumbed to 2". The filter it goes to first is called an M-4, it is made by Pentair/Lifgard. It uses 4 x 29" 20 micron cartridges that are washable. I will likely need to clean them every 2-3 months because the drains of the pond and upstairs tank have filter socks on them to catch debris. After the M-4, some water is diverted to the 4' bio ball tower, and the rest goes back to the pond. There is more to it, but I don't want to explain right now... sorry.

Still have to make the lids, should be done by the end of the week.

Total cost so far out of pocket:
Hardware for corner braces: $24 (just the nuts, washers, carriage bolts)
Foam board: $85
Liner: $112

Everything else is salvage/free. That explains the ugliness!

great job!
do share more pic esp when the ray is inside! :)

tank125

03-05-2009, 9:48 PM

Plumbing is done! Only thing left is building the tops/lids! Changed the pump for a SHE 2.4 instead, figured 70gpm had to better than 50gpm...

Brent

03-06-2009, 12:19 AM

NICE love the progress cant wait to see it in action

tank125

03-06-2009, 10:21 PM

Okay... lids are framed, no pics b/c the wife left the camera at work.... oh well.

What is left:
cut the 3 3/8" foam to fit into the lids = easy
dismantle the "donor" 125 gallon so that I have some nice big viewing windows = easy but depressing
fill and rinse the pond = boring
paint it = boring
open valve to system and let it run for a few days = not to bad
transfer the rays!

no time for it tomorrow, gotta lower the Integra, she needs to stiffen up and settle down a little... just a mild drop with some eibach pro's and a set of illuminas.

thanks for tuning in, sorry no pics.

tank125

03-12-2009, 8:53 AM

Just so you know that I am not slacking! Just waiting for the paint to dry!

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r76/31Nilo31/pond%20build/IMG_7387.jpg

The lids (5, 2 have 6' x 18" windows, 3 are solid with 3 3/8" foam).

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r76/31Nilo31/pond%20build/IMG_7388.jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r76/31Nilo31/pond%20build/IMG_7389.jpg

Donor 125 that I need to take apart.

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r76/31Nilo31/pond%20build/IMG_7390.jpg

Filtration shot.

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r76/31Nilo31/pond%20build/IMG_7392.jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r76/31Nilo31/pond%20build/IMG_7394.jpg

panels are off for paint on above pic, did not want to get paint on the PVC.

Quick, but not so quick drain, allows me to to drain pond to 1/4" of water.
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r76/31Nilo31/pond%20build/IMG_7393.jpg

My bad fold job, I will get these creases out now that the pond is empty again after having its rinse cylce.

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r76/31Nilo31/pond%20build/IMG_7391.jpg

Okay, one more fill and let it run for a few days isolated, with my crash cart filled with carbon and 20 micron pads, for sawdust!

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r76/31Nilo31/Selling/cart1.jpg

I hate to predict, but I am thinking by next weekend this thing will be fully operational with the rays in it.

stingraybob

03-12-2009, 9:38 AM

tank125

03-12-2009, 1:25 PM

man i wish i had the time, money, space, and an understanding wife to let me do this...she just doesnt get the obsession..YET..I think its a really great idea coming together, looks great!!!! Im still fascinated by the nail gun with the fuel cell!!!!

You have no idea how integral that tool was to the completion of this pond! It is made by Pasload, they are in the $4-500 range! Luckily I have friends in the construction business!

RedTailKinG

03-12-2009, 1:38 PM

just sick i must come to check this out in person

tank125

03-30-2009, 7:09 PM

Hey man can you explain how you manage your flow on your pond being gravity fed to your filter? I mean i was going to be building one pretty soon and trying to picture how it works.

It seems as if your pump may be out pimping your gravity filter, or your gravity filter may be letting more water come out and your pump not keeping up. I was thinking ball valve but then your pump starts getting a little cloged then your overflow will overflow.??

can you straightnen me up on this?

via pm

Not sure what you are asking, it is EXACTLY like a wet/dry for a normal aquarium. But, yes in my case, my sumps are way too small, I can get it running fine, but if I ever loose power it will overflow majorly! My problem is that my sumps are too small for the temporary volume of water that a 7 x 10 pond has, ie. about 2" of water in the pond is active/temporary only in the pond if the pump is running. My fix is not going to be bigger sumps, but instead I am just going to have the pond pump draw directly from the pond and return to the pond and add an additional pump (small, like a mag 7 or some thing) to pump from the sump (that which is part of the existing 210 gallon tank system) to the pond, just to keep the pond and 210 on exactly the same water, in turn, this allows me to isolate them from each other by simply removing the mag 7. I hope this answers your question... I think you are either over thinking this or do not have experience with drilled aquariums and wet dry filters? If any more Q's, don't hesitate to ask.