Cold water reef

[marinebiologist]

I live 30 min. away from the beach and wanted to make a tank with the corals from there how would I do that? All I have is a 10g tank any help would be awsome thanks!:grinno:

[marinebiologist]

:feedback:

[Otto_VonBacon]

Hmm, i would say use stuff from the region, maybe not sand because that can be contaminated from human contact.

Maybe collect some water and check it's parameters to see how toxic it is.

IMO i wouldn't take the corals from a reef, mother nature has a hard enough time coping with stuff. but I'm not stopping you.

Oh, and you might what to check if it's even legal, some places you can't touch the reef. would hate to see this hobby land you in jail.

[marinebiologist]

Thanks for the reply and it's legal if you have permit

[micstarz]

Just use 100% natural stuff, including sand and rocks. If it was polluted then the corals would already be affected.

[marinebiologist]

Thanks I'll try that and see what happens

[bromie88]

ive sort of done it. i id a rock pool environment though, rather than a cold water reef. heres the thread. its in the cold water section of MFK
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=174218

all in all i think it worked very well as long as you choose the livestock very carefully. all the animals i collected where very tough, and would do well even in tropical temperatures (i have some in my reef as i speak), so i didn't need to run a chiller. they also wernt too fussy about water quality (as this was my first marine tank).

i used a 10 gal tank too. some sand from the beach where the animals where collected, and some rocks for decoration. i also got some LR from the LFS, and even in cold water i still got aiptaisa.:)

i ran a simple HOB filter, and a pair of powerheads for flow. i wanted a lot of flow as the animals came from the river mersey. the tide runs like a train. so i wanted to emulate that. also kept the diatoms from clinging to everything.

i think its a great idea and more people should keep natives. i had loads of fun keeping and collecting them. they may not be as colourful as their tropical counterparts, but i bet they're just as interesting.

[sweeTang21]

before you do anything, id check with your local law enforcement to see what the collection laws are. some areas do not allow you to take coral, rock or even sand under any circumstance.

[marinebiologist]

I was going to ask if anybody new of a beach in socal were I can get the stuff. And what should the temp. be and if I should make my own water or get it from the beach. Thanks!

[Fish Finder]

I have experience with saltwater tank's up to 55F. You really have to tell me what temp the tank will be at for me to tell you what to do. Because there are different issues with different temp's. Like for EX if your tank is going to be 55F it will take it up to 6 months to cycle right even with cured live rock. So do some research and get some questions and ill be more then happy to answer them.

[marinebiologist]

Well right now it's cycling at around 75 but I will get a chiller. The temp. in the room is around 60-68 I want go to the beach and get some sand corals and rock and maybe seaweed, what lighting should I get. What would be the best place Roget them in socal?

[micstarz]

Umm...I may be mistaken but if the tank is for native organisms then wouldn't the temperatures of the room you are in replicate the conditions of the natural environment better than a chiller could?

[bonkoland666]

permit

[marinebiologist]

I don't know the temp. of the beach I'm still looking for that info

[bromie88]

I don't know the temp. of the beach I'm still looking for that info

next time you go to the beach just take a measurement. not from a rockpool though. the water in rockpools will heat up dramatically.

or go to a dive shop and ask the what the temp is. they will be able to tell you. my dad was a diver, he always had some sort of info on water temp, even down to depths of 60-70m. so you can find out exactly what temp your tank should be, depending on how deep the reef is your trying to emulate.

thats why i chose a rockpool environment... less messing around with temperatures, and i could personally collect my livestock. rather than rely on someone else to do so, as i am not a diver.

[marinebiologist]

Ya I just want to get some rocks and coral and seaweed from the tide pools and rocks on the right on the sand. Would I be able to get a fish though?

[bromie88]

Ya I just want to get some rocks and coral and seaweed from the tide pools and rocks on the right on the sand. Would I be able to get a fish though?

yes, very easily. i just ran a cheapo kiddies net through some pools and caught all kinds of animals. i took rocks, but thats all they where... didnt destroy no habitat. just general rocks from the beach. some had sea lettuce on that grew like mad, even under a cheap 11w clip on light.

i got loads of prawns, shrimp, small crabs, and gobies. if i had moved some stones in the deeper pools i would have got other UK species such as blennies and butterfish. if i sat and watched a pool long enough, i probably would have seen all manner of things, like flatfish and small wrasse moving around.

the corals im not sure on though, all i could find where anemones. and i knew that the ones i collected dont get bigger than 2" across the disk. but there are some in the uk that can get a 12" disk so make sure you do your homework before you start to collect them, as i know of one species that does the same in us waters. i think its called a starburst anemone... really pretty, but will get big.

kelp and other plants you should have no problem with. there should be some attatched to some small rocks. but kelp grows like a foot a day under optimum conditions.

so you will get loads of creatures, you just gotta look for them... the more you look the more you see...

[marinebiologist]

the corals im looking for on the beach don't get very big, thanks for the help once i get the live sand and get the tank cycled i will go get the stuff. one more question, would two 5w fluorescent light bulbs do fine for the coral and seaweed?

[Deano1956]

So you are saying Fish finder that a warmer tank cycles faster (75-80 F) than say 68-75 ?

[bromie88]

the corals im looking for on the beach don't get very big, thanks for the help once i get the live sand and get the tank cycled i will go get the stuff. one more question, would two 5w fluorescent light bulbs do fine for the coral and seaweed?

its 1w less than what i had. i did fine... you may have to add more though if things start to look a bit sad. keep a close eye on any nems/coral you do get though... the species i keep have no symbiotic zooanthelle algae, so they need feeding every few days. the upside is that they can be kept in zero lighting unlike most tropical nems.

im not sure if the ones you will collect will have the same abbility to be kept under no lighting at most you will have to recreate the natural levels of sunlight where you live. which for me in the uk isnt a lot. but may be a problem for you with the lights you have, depending on where you live...

[Deano1956]

If you are doing a tank like you are why are'nt you getting water from the ocean also and even substrate, then you would be done.

[colinrobinson]

im sorry to tell you this but taking any animals from the beach in california is illegal and getting a permit is very unlikely.

[bromie88]

If you are doing a tank like you are why are'nt you getting water from the ocean also and even substrate, then you would be done.

all can be contaminated. and in the confined space of an aquarium even the animals that are used to said contaminents cant normally cope.

i did it with my tank and i was fine... anyone else might have problems.

[bromie88]

im sorry to tell you this but taking any animals from the beach in california is illegal and getting a permit is very unlikely.

that sucks... not even rod caught fish? glad i live in the uk. as far as im aware the only fish im not allowed to take is a sturgeon,. all must be given to the queen. everything else is fair game in SW... some things have size limits but nothings 'forbiden'...

[marinebiologist]

That does suck how hard is it to get a permit?

[Finalfire9]

Dude you need a chiller to get that water below 70 to house hermit crabs and urchins and seastars from our waters.

I have been workin on native Reef tank for 5 years now. Diy water bottle chiller. weekly 90% water changes.

You can take home the starburst anemones they do fine in any temp and grow like weeds. God thos anemones are tuff.

I go collecting around thousand step's its in laguna beach main thing is to watch tide schedule its hard to collect at certain times.

[Zoodiver]

At first I thought this thread was a joke....
Is it?

Permits are not handed out quick. Collection is most likely not going to happen.

[marinebiologist]

The thread is not a joke,Finalfire9 do you have a permit? and I go to thousand steps all the time for skimboarding

[Finalfire9]

I dont have a permit and would never get one i dont think its wrong if you collect from the local beaches, for personal use.

If you dont have a chiller dont collect hermit crabs or purple urchins or sea stars from socal youll just killem within a week. since they require water thats 62-68 degrees

Starburst anemones on the other hand can handle the heat and are extremely hardy.

The water bottle Diy chiller i use keeps the tank temp under 70 degrees is to cold for damsels.

The purple urchin's get fed squash weekly and feed the hermit crabs fresh sliced catfish but they usallly just steal food outta a gutloading the starburst anemone gosh thos guys eat anything and grow extremely fast.

Temp is the biggest factor in the tank if it rises over 70 i dump ice into my diy chiller area yea im serouis you gotta keep them cold as ****

[Finalfire9]

Heres a outside shot of the cooling unit attached to the tank.

[bromie88]

i dont think its wrong if you collect from the local beaches, for personal use.



+1

as long as you dont damage any habitat, like if lift rocks put them back, take your rubbish home ect, i dont know why there is so much fuss?

if your allowed to take rod cought fish for eating all my fish would be gobys ect caught on tiny hooks in the pools. so nothing would be over a few inches, and they would be thrown back.

smallest hook you can get really light line. like 1-2 lb hooklink, and a matchstick for a float.

if the law allows that is...

[colinrobinson]

its extremely hard to get a permit and this means for any fish or invert even rocks. whatever alive is illegal which sucks cause id love to have natives. you also dont need a chiller just go collecting in the summer when the water is warmer.

[marinebiologist]

What would be the cheapest chiller though?

[Finalfire9]

My "chiller" is just a water bottle cooler i just took a reg puckers bottle jammed two 4 foot long half inch wide plastic hoses into the open end of a puckers bottle and stuck the other side of the hoses into the tank hooked up to a lowflow powerhead then i just stuck the pucker bottle where you would stick a reg bottle of water in the cooler. With a little water in the cooler the water cools the bottle. another thing where the plastic tubes enter the puckers bottle i just stuffed some cotton in the sides around the two tubes so its air tight and a closed circut from the powerhead to the puckers bottle and back to the tank.

[Finalfire9]

its extremely hard to get a permit and this means for any fish or invert even rocks. whatever alive is illegal which sucks cause id love to have natives. you also dont need a chiller just go collecting in the summer when the water is warmer.


You obvouisly have never kept anything alive from our beaches. It doesnt matter what time of year you collect the water is always under 70degrees. You need a chiller if you want to keep urchins sea stars and a hermits from our waters. Peroid.

http://www.beachcalifornia.com/beach/california-ocean-temperature.html

[Finalfire9]

Heres the business end of the puckers glass bottle that has two hoses jammed in it the bottle is stuck in the water bottle cooler so the cooler has no "mods" to it. That white stuff is cotton i jammed in the sides so it dont leak.

[Finalfire9]

Heres a picture of the starburst i collected 9 of them probly a month ago about dime size now some are 2 1/2 inch across.

they turned pink when i fed them some pink fish pellets maybe ill pick up some algea wafers for some more natural colors. Theres also some 20 hermits in the tank and some urchins

[colinrobinson]

You obvouisly have never kept anything alive from our beaches. It doesnt matter what time of year you collect the water is always under 70degrees. You need a chiller if you want to keep urchins sea stars and a hermits from our waters. Peroid.

http://www.beachcalifornia.com/beach/california-ocean-temperature.html

well you are correct on the fact that i haven't kept any thing alive cause i have never kept anything because its illegal and id hate the fine and the fact of dealing with police. and the temp is an average that does make a point, except if you were to collect in tide pools on a hot day there is more of a chance that the water is warm due to the little volume that was needed to heat.

[bromie88]

nice finalfire9. was it you i was talking to on another thread? if so the teleporters still not up and running yet :)

and nice DIY chiller. id remove the cotton and fill the gaps full of aquarium sillicon myself, but that would be just for my piece of mind... im sure its fine though.

you dont 'need' a chiller though. only if the room temperature is more than the animals can cope with. if you need water below 70F and your room is 75F you obviously need one. but if the room is 65F, then it will be ok.

or choose animals that can handle higher temps. all the animals i chose to keep could be found as far south as the mediteranian. so thats tropical temperatures. therefore unless my room was over 26 degrees C (which is isnt) a chiller is an unnessicary, expensive piece of kit. even running the thing is unnessicarily costly.

to the O.P. you should find out the names of the animals you wanna keep. see if they mix first of all, things eat things, so make sure you dont get the wet equivilent of a wolf and some sheep, and then dump them in a 10 gal.

then find the scientific names of those animals and google them. you should be able to get info on:
-thier adult size (important for a small tank)
-their temperment/behaviour (so you can arrage the tank accordingly)
-what they eat (wolves and sheep in a small space remember? :))
- and very important, the natural distribution of the animals. then you will be able to find out the upper end of their temperature range. back off a few degrees though... only the toughest will be able to survive in the highest temps of their range.

[Zoodiver]

I dont have a permit and would never get one i dont think its wrong if you collect from the local beaches, for personal use.


Actually it is a federal crime in the US.

I'm gonna shut have to shut this thread down.

Apply for the permit to take animals. One won't be given for rock/sand/coral when you are just a private set up. When you get the legal end set, feel free to start another thread.

:)