Most ancient species exists?

[Three Trees]

What's the most ancient fish that still exists today?

[WhiteLineRacer]

Well not including Oddball's Lancelet, which has no backbone and I think he said fossils dated back 650million years the Coelacanth dates back 400 million years has a backbone and is swimming our seas today also.

http://www.dinofish.com/

[michael]

Aros, gars, polypterus, etc

[dredcon]

The oldest group of fishes with surviving species has got the be the hagfish.

[USMCtanker]

The oldest group of fishes with surviving species has got the be the hagfish.
whats that u have a pic

[Oddball]

Here's a primitive pacific hagfish:

[limz_777]

lungfish?

[fishnthings]

coelcanth... come on dont get ewurm started

[Dozer0011]

Those hagfish have an interesting defense mechanism.......they produce mass quantities of thick slime. Not a good aquarium fish.

some interesting facts (http://oceanlink.island.net/oinfo/hagfish/hagfish.html)

[davo]

what is the crustaceon type thing, that has a shell that is brown and white, and they almost have a squid like body, and they "swim" around, i think due to the air they have and can release into the shell, so they can float. i think they live in a african river system but im not sure. i realise this is a crap description, but i really cant remember the name.

[Dozer0011]

All I can think of is the nautilus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nautilus)

Did I get it?

Another cool fossil creature regardless

[davo]

yea thats the badger, cheers. done anyone keep one/can you?

[Dozer0011]

In aquaria they may live for a long time but they have buoyancy problems (they tend to float at the top) and problems producing new shell (the new shell is discolored, black and malformed). There are no known solutions to these problems. Only two places have ever had fertile eggs laid successfully in captivity; Waikiki Aquarium and an aquarium in Japan. A third aquarium in Austria may have also succeeded but I have not been able to validate this report. Nautilus eggs have never been found in the wild, no one has ever raised a hatchling to maturity in captivity. For these reasons they are not, in my opinion, a good pet choice for home aquarists. This is one of the reasons that I have chose to not write a popular article on their care in captivity.


taken from here (http://www.thecephalopodpage.org/Npompil.php)

[Ang]

An LFS down the street from me has a Nautilus. They are so cool.

[Oddball]

The nautilus is an interesting ancient creature with predecessors reaching 30+ft long and/or 10ft+ in diameter. These were the ammonites, baculites, and belemnites. Interesting topic that should have it's own thread instead of derailing this FISH thread.

[Dozer0011]

The nautilus is an interesting ancient creature with predecessors reaching 30+ft long and/or 10ft+ in diameter. These were the ammonites, baculites, and belemnites. Interesting topic that should have it's own thread instead of derailing this FISH thread.

Totally agree.....my apologies:(

some of the living fossil fish that have escaped the limelight. (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/fish/other.html)

[phishypheny]

CRAB?

[DeLgAdO]

sharks hands down

[Oddball]

sharks hands down

Not even close. Sharks actually have advanced evolutionary traits (like advanced eyesight, endothermic capabilities, electrical field sensitivity, advanced olfactory senses, moveable mandibles, etc). They come from an ancient order. But, even those fore-runners were more advanced than amphioxus, chemarae, hagfish, lampreys, and the like.

[Pangong_ilong]

Stingrays.

[kriztu]

for fish, i'd say the ceolecanth

[Oddball]

Stingrays.

Stingrays are even more recent. The fossil record puts them at the Cretaceous period to now. Before stingrays were the guitarfish. And, before guitarfish were the squaliforme sharks (dogfish). Before that, the Galeiforme sharks (horn sharks) Before that, well... doesn't matter since they are no longer known to exist.

[Oddball]

for fish, i'd say the ceolecanth

Close. Lobe-finned fishes appeared in the Lower Devonian (~395 million yr). But, they were related to today's coelacanth like moles are related to humans. The Latimeria form of coelacanth appeared around the beginning of the Carboniferous period (345 million years). Well after the amphioxus, hagfish, etc that cropped up in the Ordovician (500 million yrs)

[davo]

your like a whirlwind of fish history! it was you who kept fossils and skeletons? if it was you, you should post some pics, would like to see some. i got an old ray tooth fossil, but i guess thats not too impressive lol

[kriztu]

yeah, show the pics. show them! :drool:

[Oddball]

yeah, show the pics. show them! :drool:

Man! Don't get me started.

Here's one of a guitarfish (Rhinobatis hakelensis) from the cretaceous period of Hakel, Lebanon.

[davo]

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=351187#post351187 you aint got a choice now lol. where do you get them all from oddball, i mean that one above looks like a really clear and decent imprint.

[Oddball]

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=351187#post351187 you aint got a choice now lol. where do you get them all from oddball, i mean that one above looks like a really clear and decent imprint.

20+ years in the Navy. Went digging in 82 countries.

[sour_girl]

Heres the most ancient creature I know of.... :ROFL:

[Oddball]

Look what you did...

[sour_girl]

:ROFL:

[ewurm]

Coelacanth, hands down!

www.dinofish.com

[davo]

i thought you made that fish up ewurm?

[ewurm]

i thought you made that fish up ewurm?


:swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear:

[sour_girl]

Oh so THATs what was in your avatar... I thought they were bettas!!

[ewurm]

Oh so THATs what was in your avatar... I thought they were bettas!!


:swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear: :swear:

[sour_girl]

Well maybe you draw like you take pictures!! It is so small.. when you enlarge it looks much nicer!!!

[ewurm]

I just like to post those *****in smilies, LOL

[RED SKY]

awesome

[meepster]

what is the crustaceon type thing, that has a shell that is brown and white, and they almost have a squid like body, and they "swim" around, i think due to the air they have and can release into the shell, so they can float. i think they live in a african river system but im not sure. i realise this is a crap description, but i really cant remember the name.

thats called a nautilis. They aren't as old as horseshoe crabs... they're trilobites :)

[Lockness' Oscar]

....Went digging in 82 countries.

There's 82 now???


Oddball...You know anything about how ancient arowana are and other facts??

Well, I'm sure you do, but can you tell us people who weren't born yet when you turned 60??

[STATIC X]

the lungfish!!!! :woot:

[Fruitbat]

I'm stumbling into this conversation a bit late but it looks interesting.

The most ancient species....hmmmmm.....depends on how you want to approach it.

Of all the 'fish-like' creatures it would definitely be the hagfish and lampreys (Agnathans) - ancestors of the original 'jawless' fish. These critters aren't even 'advanced' enough to have true jaws nor do they possess paired fins like all of the other fishes. Their history streches back to the Early Cambrian which would bring them in at about 540 million years ago.

The coelacanth (Latimeria) is truly considered a 'living fossil' and comes from an ancient lineage (the Sarcopterygii or 'lobe-finned' fish) that was thought to be completely extinct until the first living Latimeria was caught and reported in 1938. The coelacanth lineage stretches back to the Middle Devonian (about 390 million years ago).

The lungfish are also classified by many authorities as being 'lobe-finned' fish (Sarcopterygii). Their record stretches back to at least the Devonian (about 417 - 354 million years ago) as evidenced by fossils of Diabolichthyes from strata in China.

Of the 'ray-finned' fishes (Actinopterygii), the bichirs (Polypterus) are probably the most primitive. Their lineage harkens back to the days before the breakup of the supercontinent 'Gondwanaland' which puts them to at least the Early Cretaceous (about 118 million years ago). However, there is some thought among evolutionary biologist that this lineage may trace back to the Late Devonian (though there is no hard fossil evidence to support this).

So.....if you're asking which is the most ancient species of 'ray-finned fish' then the Polypterids would likely be your answer. If you're asking which is the most primitive of ALL the fish-like creatures then you should look at the Agnathans (hagfish and lampreys).

-Joe

[Oddball]

Then, look before the hagfish at the more primitive species in the title of this thread.

[Oddball]

There's 82 now???


Oddball...You know anything about how ancient arowana are and other facts??

Well, I'm sure you do, but can you tell us people who weren't born yet when you turned 60??

For that hit on my age, I should just leave you hangin. I've never studied the full lineage of aros but, I have an extinct relative from the Santana Formation of Ceara, Brazil. It's from the Cretaceous and dates back 125,000,000 years. The pic is on my other PC. I'll post it when I get home.

[Oddball]

North America also had their own Osteoglossids by way of Phareodus encaustus and P. testis. These aros died out about 50,000,000 years ago.

[YOULOOKLIKEAFISH]

Plankton

[YOULOOKLIKEAFISH]

oops forgot de pic

[davo]

still waiting for that fossil collection thread... cant find it anywhere

[Jaxolotl]

Of all the 'fish-like' creatures it would definitely be the hagfish and lampreys (Agnathans) - ancestors of the original 'jawless' fish. These critters aren't even 'advanced' enough to have true jaws nor do they possess paired fins like all of the other fishes. Their history streches back to the Early Cambrian which would bring them in at about 540 million years ago.

The coelacanth (Latimeria) is truly considered a 'living fossil' and comes from an ancient lineage (the Sarcopterygii or 'lobe-finned' fish) that was thought to be completely extinct until the first living Latimeria was caught and reported in 1938. The coelacanth lineage stretches back to the Middle Devonian (about 390 million years ago).

The lungfish are also classified by many authorities as being 'lobe-finned' fish (Sarcopterygii). Their record stretches back to at least the Devonian (about 417 - 354 million years ago) as evidenced by fossils of Diabolichthyes from strata in China.

Of the 'ray-finned' fishes (Actinopterygii), the bichirs (Polypterus) are probably the most primitive. Their lineage harkens back to the days before the breakup of the supercontinent 'Gondwanaland' which puts them to at least the Early Cretaceous (about 118 million years ago). However, there is some thought among evolutionary biologist that this lineage may trace back to the Late Devonian (though there is no hard fossil evidence to support this).

So.....if you're asking which is the most ancient species of 'ray-finned fish' then the Polypterids would likely be your answer. If you're asking which is the most primitive of ALL the fish-like creatures then you should look at the Agnathans (hagfish and lampreys).

-Joe

Thanks for information :popcorn:

[Oddball]

still waiting for that fossil collection thread... cant find it anywhere

Been up to my dupa in alligators lately. I'll try to free up some time to get the posts and pics going. In the meantime, here's the cretaceous aro ancient forefather I said I'd post:

[roybryan]

what is the oldest living fossill from the amazon region arrowanas, arapimas, lungfish or something differant ?

[AquataHolic420]

Coalacanth!?!?!

[roybryan]

thought they were from africa could be wrong

[AquataHolic420]

yea there were some confirmed reports of them there... i thought they were supposed to be extinct like millions of years ago, until a tribe was found to be harvesting them for food!

[Oddball]

thought they were from africa could be wrong

Not wrong. The coelacanth (Latimeria chalumnae) occurs in the areas between eastern South Africa and the Comoro Islands.
A recently discovered species (Latimeria menadoensis) was located in Sulwesi, Indonesia.

[bmxer4ever]

still waiting for that fossil collection thread... cant find it anywhere

Is this what you were looking for Davo?

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40774

[Crustman]

Cool, I didn't know another species of Coelacanth was discovered. I have to go with the Agnatha (Hagfish and Lampreys) as the most primitive fish besides the fishlike cephalochordates. The latter are filter feeders so they are not really predators. The Hagfish are scavengers of the deep sea and are found whenever a corpse sinks to the bottom. The fish can tie a knot at its tail and work it down quickly to its head to gain leverage to pull out a chunk of flesh. This is how it feeds.

[baracuda]

yup coelacanth!!

[Shikartha]

What petstore in san diego has one? I would like to see that.

[TicaL]

What petstore in san diego has one? I would like to see that.


The one that sells Jackalope
:hitting:

[MistirE]

...

[Fishes33]

Isnt Crocodile the most ancient that ever live on earth? ^^;;

[cockroach]

Oh so THATs what was in your avatar... I thought they were bettas!!
ewurm dont let them mock that beautiful guppy in your avatar , I like it! lol

[syddakyd]

wait lancelets aren't fish they are "fish-like" though. i read about them a few years ago as weird animals interest me (tuatara, caecilians, etc.)

anyways. that animal is said to be the closest gap between inverts and vertabrates, right?

[angeltc]

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/fo...1&d=1170564902
We're gonna need a bigger boat

Lol but seriously. What is that thing?

[Thedaniokeeper]

That you can put in an aquarium, oldest thing is horseshoe crab. Trilobites have been around 700+ million years.
Wait... i am wrong here. Green algae. :)
Others are right about true fish.

[Jeox]

Isnt Crocodile the most ancient that ever live on earth? ^^;;

Nope.
there are things around today, that were around 200 million years+ before the first crocodiles.

EDIT
Somehow i missed how old this thread is. :\

[Phleborrhagia]

Superclass Osteichthyes
Class Sarcopterygii
Order Lepidosireniformes and Order Coelacanthiformes