Something they should consider before passing HR 669

[Mystus Redtail]

Correct me if I am wrong, but the common house cat and most breeds of dog are not native species to America. There are countless thousands maybe millions of stray dogs and cats. Feral cats have a very negative affect on the environment that they are let free in, they breed uncontrollably and destroy native wildlife, like birds and small animals. If they pass HR 669 I do not see how they could possible not add common cats and dogs to the ban list. They need to round up all of the cats and dogs in this country and systematically destroy them. After all, the "stray", arguably feral, cats and dogs pose a major threat to the native ecosystem.

I hope that the men and women of congress carefully consider this legislation before they pass it only to realize that THEIR beloved pet will be on the chopping block as well.

I say no to HR 669.

[Onion01]

i was thinking the same thing. would dobermans and german shepards be illegal? how about non-mustang horses?

[Mystus Redtail]

If they can prove that escaped horses pose a danger to the ecosystem ANYWHERE IN THE UNITED STATES, then fire up the glue factory...

[Onion01]

okay, so i wasn't thinking too hard on that one :duh:

but feral dogs are known to attack people sometimes

[Zeppelin3k]

1. I seen a show on farel cats, they are actually good for the ecosystem believe it or not. On this show they were catching the farel cats and fixing them then releasing them back into the cities.

2. the thing about domestic dogs is that they need humans to survive. If you just let a dog, (dont care what kind) it would have a hard time living off of the land. They are very human dependant and wont survive without someone caring for them. Its not like a fish were you can throw it in a body of water with the right water temp and it will thrive.

[Lizardking]

I dont live in the US but I feel for you guys, aren´t there a lot of parrots and other petbirds that could survive in the wild too, and reptiles? Will they ban all pets?

[Onion01]

the thing about domestic dogs is that they need humans to survive. If you just let a dog, dont care what kind it would have a hard time living off of the land. They are very human dependant and wont survive without someone caring for them. Its not like a fish were you can throw it in a body of water with the right water temp and it will thrive.

how about dingos? ;)

[Zeppelin3k]

how about dingos? ;)
they are wild dogs, im talking about house dogs lol:nilly:

[Onion01]

they are not domistic :nilly:


no, i meant how dingos WERE domestic, then became feral and were able to survive well in harsh conditions

[Reiner]

There are plenty of feral dogs in downtown Los Angeles that live for years from jumping into dumpsters and just living of of food scraps.

[beblondie]

A dingos are indigenous to Australia not the United states
horses are not indenous to the United states
dairy cows are not not indigenous
nor are pigeons or sparrows
actually most domestic animals are not native
guess they got a lot of rounding upto do huh?

[Wet Whiskers]

Yeah, my mom has a parrot who can live to be 80, yes eighty, years old. They had the guy for 37 years, and its just now due for a midlife crisis. How in the hell are they going to enforce something like this. It will never pass. There are too many hurdles for this to make it. Some politician is going to find themselves being hunted with more dedication and fever than Osama Bin Lauden. Every single person in America will be affected by this as it may not be their pet, but their close friend's or relative's.

Some people on this website were complaining they were tired of hearing about Rocky the Snakehead in New York that is due t receive the chopping blocking soon. I've been frustrated by these people as that case is just the beginning. HR 669 will do the same thing that the laws in New York has done. Rocky was bought when it was legal, he can't take him across state lines, and there is no where to send him. What do you do with all these existing pets if it is outlawed to poses them? The worst part about HR 669 is that the whole point is to protect native species. Humans have a strong desire to keep pets, and outlawing non-native species will only mean that native species will be collected instead. With 250 million Americans, collecting only native species will decimate them quickly. So, in their attempt to protect the environment, chances are our native species will suffer even more.

Besides, how many politicians are going to look their own pet in the eyes and then go off and vote for this. Its political suicide, much less their children will never let them live it down for killing the beloved family pet.

My opinion of a more effective law: If you get caught dumping a non-native species, you get a hefty fine that is based upon your income level, plus you own tons and tons of hours of community service all of which must be in effort to clean up our environment. I think this would be a more effective, kill less animals overall, and give our environment a hand. Make the people that cause the problem clean it up. Don't punish everyone and all these animals for the few f@!$*ers who cause these problems. I don't care if its a kid that dumps it. Make him clean up their mess.

I'm not worried about this becoming law. I think its going to either get dropped quickly, or its going to exploded in someone's face.

[Jeox]

Humans arn't really native to the US either. And they've caused much more destruction than all other invasives combined.

[Mystus Redtail]

My point is not whether or not cats and dogs are going to decimate the ecosystem or if dogs can survive in the wild on their own. My point is that once we allow this to start, who decides where it will end? Legislators are happy to pass laws when what they are banning doesn't affect them. All of our elected officials have to take a long hard look at this proposal and see it for what it is, the end of an industry, at least as we know it.

We need to think about all proposals whether they affect us directly or not. Carefully consider the consequences of broad bans on anything. From "exotic pets" to "assault rifles". Just because you don't think it affects you, it does.

Take a look a prohibition. The country-wide ban on alcohol. There were a lot of people that thought it was a good idea. After all, what good things has alcohol done for society and this was before the days of widespread drinking and driving. They thought it would make a more peaceful society, yet it only made things worse. I'm not saying that exotic animal speakeasy's will pop up all over the country or that any of the Capone-style gangland will reemerge, BUT good intentions do not always make good legislation. I would say more often the opposite is true.

Talk about this issue. To friends, relatives, neighbors. Bring it up at Easter dinner. It's a good conversation starter at the table, especially if you don't really care for some of your relatives and need something to talk about. This is a subject that everyone can relate to. As previously stated, even if you don't own pets, you know someone who does. Spring into action, if you see someone get worked up about this, get them to call their congressman/woman, that's why we elected them, to be our voice in Washington.

If no one says anything, we will go quietly into a future that I think most people who joined this site would dread. One where this entire hobby is ruled by what the irresponsible, non-committed pet buyers do. A future that dictates how we can enjoy the wonders of nature by their unethical actions.

[Acer]

Humans arn't really native to the US either.

50 000 years isn't long enough for you to consider native???

[uting]

Why not those political dudes think about the financial crisis first before trying to ruin the fish, reptile, bird and small mammal hobby.

[uting]

They should also ban rats because rats are not native to US

[Lupin]

They should also ban rats because rats are not native to US
Don't give them more ideas please!

[ewurm]

There are no invasive species in MN that I know of that were introduced by hobbyists. All the invasive species were introduced by the government or accidentally by tanker ships dumping ballast water.

[R1_Ridah]

Also, let me guess this straight. The person who initiated all this is from Guam? I know Guam is a territory of the U.S. But this person needs to go back under the palm tree they were chillen in re-think of something else to pass.

"introduced by Del. Madeleine Bordallo (D-Guam)"

I could already imagine the thinking process. Sitting at the beach looking out at the ocean sipping on alcohol (presumably LOTS) and coming up with this ludicrous idea.

[invisyblegypsey]

oldest domestic dog in the US
http://www.bulldoginformation.com/catahoula-leopard.html

all dogs ,cats and horses would fall under the ban
for none of them are indigenous to the US.

[digger]

If this is going to happen then they can round up the news crews and everyone should be able to watch Ted Kennedy put his dogs down.

[invisyblegypsey]

when it comes right down to it 99% of the people in the US are non native so we should be rounded up and exterminated also.

[digger]

I hope everyone is getting active about this. It is really sad. One of the few hobbies I have and love can be stripped away so fast.

[Modest_Man]

Also, let me guess this straight. The person who initiated all this is from Guam? I know Guam is a territory of the U.S. But this person needs to go back under the palm tree they were chillen in re-think of something else to pass.

"introduced by Del. Madeleine Bordallo (D-Guam)"

I could already imagine the thinking process. Sitting at the beach looking out at the ocean sipping on alcohol (presumably LOTS) and coming up with this ludicrous idea.

Or they looked at the terrible impact the brown tree snake has had on Guam's native bird population. I don't approve of HR669, but this is probably the most ignorant statement I've ever read on MFK.

[Death Pony]

I was thinking about this too. Why are people against anything that doesn't have fur? Captain Buzz Kill must be stopped!!!

[invisyblegypsey]

Del. Madeleine Bordallo (D-Guam) is a wanna be politicain with a feather up her A**

[R1_Ridah]

Or they looked at the terrible impact the brown tree snake has had on Guam's native bird population. I don't approve of HR669, but this is probably the most ignorant statement I've ever read on MFK.

So keep at Guam. It's just like the epidemic of snakeheads that's been released in the east coast that wiped out a whole species of natives in lakes & ponds where it's been found. There was no such legislation that was tried to be passed. Only banning the certain specie which is understandable. To try to ban everything else is crazy.

You want hear something else ignorant.... F..U... now that's #2 of the most ignorant statement you've read read on MFK... :naughty:

[smpage]

Now, it's been a couple days since I read it but if I remember correctly, common household pets and domestic animals are not effected. This means dogs, cats, horses, cows and goldfish will not be banned as provided by in the bill.

[digger]

Now, it's been a couple days since I read it but if I remember correctly, common household pets and domestic animals are not effected. This means dogs, cats, horses, cows and goldfish will not be banned as provided by in the bill.
Great we will be Monster Goldfish Keepers:irked:

[dragonfish]

Now, it's been a couple days since I read it but if I remember correctly, common household pets and domestic animals are not effected. This means dogs, cats, horses, cows and goldfish will not be banned as provided by in the bill.


That is for now, see how long it takes someone to come up with an amendment to it because their neighbors shepard scared their child. An open bill like this leaves much to interpretation.
On a side note to R1_Ridah, I've seen a lot of very ignorant comments on here. I may have even made some. But the point is that's not even in the top ten, you need to up your game.:grinno:

[Thedaniokeeper]

The bill does not ban EVERY exotic animal, it just bans exotics not studied by a few people in a year...

[Mystus Redtail]

Great we will be Monster Goldfish Keepers:irked:

Goldfish are not native either. They're basically carp. Carp a very destructive to native aquatic vegetation. Also jumping carp have caused many other problems as an invasive species. So they'll probably ban gold fish too. Now what are kids going to win at the fair...

[smpage]

Goldfish are not native either. They're basically carp. Carp a very destructive to native aquatic vegetation. Also jumping carp have caused many other problems as an invasive species. So they'll probably ban gold fish too. Now what are kids going to win at the fair...

And yet, goldfish are not included in this ban.

[Midas Madness]

Goldfish could/are more destructive considering their cold water. Which means they could affect a lot more of the U.S. The lady from guam needs to worry about her own affairs before she starts implementing her ideas here.

[ryverrat]

If you think about it not all non-native species are a problem. The problem lies with irresponsible people. Horses, long horn cattle, chickens, phesants, and oranges are not native to North America but humans have benefitted from all. These species are not seen as invasive unless they are allowed to get out of human control (for examle wild horses in the western US). Banning this because some people cannot be responsible with them is not an answer (remember Prohibition- expensive Government project that never worked). To require education and possibly permits for some species is a better answer. If a species is found to be possible devastaging to a particular ecosystem (such as the Grass carp which was introduced by a government agency for algae and plant control) then possesion in that area should be limited. Remember this country was founded in response to an oppressive government that took away the rights of the people. Our government should weigh carefully before doing such to it's citizenry

[MN_Rebel]

There are no invasive species in MN that I know of that were introduced by hobbyists. All the invasive species were introduced by the government or accidentally by tanker ships dumping ballast water.
Actually there is only one nonnative fish in Minnesota were introduced by hobbyists and thats infamous goldfish but yes mainly non native fishes were introduced by government and ballast water in Minnesota waterways. In fact, most invasive fishes in United States were escaped from fish farms.

[uting]

damn that lady from guam!!!!!!

[uting]

OMFG! I looked at all the petitions approving the bill and I counted a total of 2663 and then I look at one place only for reptiles There are 4006 people against this bill.

THIS BILL HAS A VERY SMALL CHANCE OF HAPPENING!

[Red tail catking]

Are you serious? Hell yeah! Where were these at?

[NewETown]

OMFG! I looked at all the petitions approving the bill and I counted a total of 2663 and then I look at one place only for reptiles There are 4006 people against this bill.

THIS BILL HAS A VERY SMALL CHANCE OF HAPPENING!


I'd like to know where you found this information as well.

On a side note, Obama said he'd change things! Yay no more pets! Not like he has much to do with this, but I'm extremely annoyed with him and Gregiore (WA state governor) at their amazingly intelligent decisions regarding college education and tuition costs...

Back on track, I really can't believe a bill from GUAM would even make it so far as to be a threat to us here in the continental US. That's absurd, why are we (as in the lawmakers of the continental US) even taking this seriously?

[ewurm]

Actually there is only one nonnative fish in Minnesota were introduced by hobbyists and thats infamous goldfish but yes mainly non native fishes were introduced by government and ballast water in Minnesota waterways. In fact, most invasive fishes in United States were escaped from fish farms.

Goldfish and cap are the same species

[rainbowfishpc]

i was thinking the same thing. would dobermans and german shepards be illegal? how about non-mustang horses?

Any horse is nonnative. They were brought over by settlers in the 1500, 1600's.

[Bottomfeeder]

very true. Felus familiaris (or whatever :nilly:) are from Norway or Egypt, and Dogs...idk...lol
i dont believe its gonna pass. the pet trade brings in billions a year.

[MN_Rebel]

Goldfish and cap are the same species
No they are not same species and carp is pretty general name for different species. Common carp is Cyprinus carpio and the goldfish is Carassius auratus. Dont forget about grass carp, bighead carp, silver carp and black carp, we called them carp.

[gomezladdams]

I wondered when I read the bill if there was any knowlege of aquarium fish involved.Many non fishkeepers consider ALL fish kept in bowls and tanks goldfish.Its quite possible the authors of this bill meant goldfish to cover the entire aquarium hobby.
Still this bill needs to be defeated!!

[jartist15]

Some one stated that dogs wouldn't be under threat because they have a human dependence to survive. Ok then i would love to see any of my fish survive a body of water during the winter, or hell in the northern states the summer. This doesn't directly affect me in Canada, but one month after it is enforced (lets all pray to Obama it doesn't) All of the fish stores will start to show a huge cut in the stock list.
But with all said, US runs on bribes(look at how long oil has lasted) and i bet the head of superpet and companies like that that will be willing to give a few dollars to "support" an officials campaign. one last thing, let all your LFS know of this. They might not have herd and this is there well being at stake, they won't go down easily!!

[Knowdafish]

More fuel for the fire:

“In 2008, $43.2 billion was spent on our pets in the U.S.”
(http://www.americanpetproducts.org/press_industrytrends.asp)

Hundreds of thousands of employees at tens of thousands of pet stores nationwide will be affected as will employees at companies, which manufacture pet products; those who breed companion animals, those who supply the wholesalers (such as ourselves), book publishers, freight companies, companies which manufacture specialized packing materials, veterinarians, airlines… the list goes on and on.

“Americans now spend $41 billion a year on their pets—more than the gross domestic product of all but 64 countries in the world. That's double the amount shelled out on pets a decade ago, with annual spending expected to hit $52 billion in the next two years, according to Packaged Facts, a consumer research company based in Rockville, Md. That puts the yearly cost of buying, feeding, and caring for pets in excess of what Americans spend on the movies ($10.8 billion), playing video games ($11.6 billion), and listening to recorded music ($10.6 billion) combined.”

(http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/07_32/b4045001.htm)

Pets have been an integral part of the human experience for many millennia. The dog has been domesticated for 15,000 years; cats for almost 10,000 years; ferrets for around 2,500 years and rabbits 2,000 years. Even silk worms were domesticated 5,000 years ago.

Can the Subcommittee on Insular Affairs, Oceans & Wildlife so flippantly ban virtually all fish, birds, reptiles, rabbits, amphibians, and other small animals? These animals are great contributors to one’s quality of life. For those who are unable to keep a dog or cat, these other animals fill that void.

While dogs and cats generally come to mind when someone says “pet”, consider that fish, reptile and other small animals far outnumber dogs and cats in US households (http://www.americanpetproducts.org/press_industrytrends.asp). Please also consider these other statistics from the aforementioned website:

Pets help to:

· Lower blood pressure
· Reduce stress
· Prevent heart disease
· Lower health care costs
· Fight depression

The passing of this Bill would be a financial disaster, now more so than ever.

[Jamieishard]

with the economy the way it is....they should be thankful people are still spending money no matter what its on. and when you work your life away only for your own survival then you should be able to keep whatever it is you like. they should see the pet industry as a positive.

[Allan01230]

Just wondering? Are saltwater fish included in this F.U. nonsense? How can a saltwater fish harm the ecosystem if it escapes into the ocean? These lawmakers need to work on the damn economy and let me enjoy the damn fish of my chosing in the country I fought for.

[Zeppelin3k]

Just wondering? Are saltwater fish included in this F.U. nonsense? How can a saltwater fish harm the ecosystem if it escapes into the ocean? These lawmakers need to work on the damn economy and let me enjoy the damn fish of my chosing in the country I fought for.
amen brotha! Now lets go to Guam and beat this lady with a coconut, maybe that will teach her to learn her role in the US.

[Allan01230]

amen brotha! Now lets go to Guam and beat this lady with a coconut, maybe that will teach her to learn her role in the US.
I was thinking more a pineapple than a coconut. More prickly! LOL All joking aside people call or write your represenative now as time is runnibng out!

[Yota]

Here is a list of animals that will not be added to the ban. Copied form the bill.


(D) does not include any cat (Felis catus), cattle or oxen (Bos taurus), chicken (Gallus gallus domesticus), dog (Canis lupus familiaris), donkey or ass (Equus asinus), domesticated members of the family Anatidae (geese), duck (domesticated Anas spp.), goat (Capra aegagrus hircus), goldfish (Carassius auratus auratus), horse (Equus caballus), llama (Lama glama), mule or hinny (Equus caballus x E. asinus), pig or hog (Sus scrofa domestica), domesticated varieties of rabbit (Oryctolagus cuniculus), or sheep (Ovis aries), or any other species or variety of species that is determined by the Secretary to be common and clearly domesticated.

[arapaimag]

Here is a list of animals that will not be added to the ban. Copied form the bill.


(D) does not include any cat (Felis catus), cattle or oxen (Bos taurus), chicken (Gallus gallus domesticus), dog (Canis lupus familiaris), donkey or ass (Equus asinus), domesticated members of the family Anatidae (geese), duck (domesticated Anas spp.), goat (Capra aegagrus hircus), goldfish (Carassius auratus auratus), horse (Equus caballus), llama (Lama glama), mule or hinny (Equus caballus x E. asinus), pig or hog (Sus scrofa domestica), domesticated varieties of rabbit (Oryctolagus cuniculus), or sheep (Ovis aries), or any other species or variety of species that is determined by the Secretary to be common and clearly domesticated.

What's everyone worried about?

We will be able to keep goldfish.....

Neoprodigy is already making his new site MGK

MonsterGoldfishKeepers

HR669 video to oppose watch it please http://scienceblogs.com/grrlscientis...s_in_peril.php