View Full Version : Altum Angels.......
chochiss
04-18-2006, 10:28 PM
Anyone owns any of this beauties? Care to share experiences......
Altum angels have a deeper body than the scalare. I believe the altum are more careful when feeding than the scalare. Altum is also more difficult to breed. I only know one in Sweden and some people in Germany who have bred them. Read more about breedinghere (http://www.finarama.com/tba/chronicles/fornback.htm).
Because altum are deeper than scalare, they'll need a larger aquarium., at leas 130gallon.
JuanTamad
04-19-2006, 12:06 PM
I keep mine with Wild Discus and Cardinals and clown loaches in a 55g with very good filtration.
ae2359
04-19-2006, 12:14 PM
where did you buy yours from i was going to order some from jeff rapps but he doesn't have any in right now
JuanTamad
04-19-2006, 12:36 PM
where did you buy yours from i was going to order some from jeff rapps but he doesn't have any in right now
I got mine from an importer in Miami, Fl.
I have a batch of six from August of 2004 and a batch of ten from July of 2005.
I just moved the older pack to a 75g with a pair of breeding Zebra Angels for possible breeding. The batch of ten were split up into two 55g tanks. One 55g has six medium Brazilian Heckels and the other has four very big Brown Discus from the Rio Orinoco.:)
chochiss
04-19-2006, 1:33 PM
how much does it cost you guys (a piece/pair) over in the US & Europe?
JuanTamad
04-19-2006, 8:57 PM
how much does it cost you guys (a piece/pair) over in the US & Europe?
I pay about US$ 6 for fish about the size of a quarter to a half-dollar at the importer's warehouse. It's 3 to 5 times that at the LFS.
A pair was on aquabid for US $ 500.
Lockness' Oscar
04-21-2006, 3:38 PM
I keep mine in with clown loaches.
JuanTamad
04-21-2006, 8:49 PM
I keep mine in with clown loaches.
I have two tanks of Altums with clown loaches as well.
The other tank of Altums have Heckel Discus and Cardinals.
chochiss
04-22-2006, 12:37 AM
I pay about US$ 6 for fish about the size of a quarter to a half-dollar at the importer's warehouse. It's 3 to 5 times that at the LFS.
A pair was on aquabid for US $ 500.
That's relatively cheap. Over here in my country.....an Altum juve will go for at least $US 20-25++. 6 bucks? Love to get that kinda price.......local bred ones or imported?
I keep mine in a tank with Corydoras, Ancistrus and Sturisoma.
JuanTamad
04-22-2006, 9:18 AM
That's relatively cheap. Over here in my country.....an Altum juve will go for at least $US 20-25++. 6 bucks? Love to get that kinda price.......local bred ones or imported?
They are all wild caught, either in Colombia or Venezuela.
ntfish
04-23-2006, 5:08 AM
From what I know of them, they require a little higher temp, are very difficult to breed but best kept in groups for breeding, unlike scalare.
Scott
JuanTamad
04-23-2006, 10:43 AM
From what I know of them, they require a little higher temp, are very difficult to breed but best kept in groups for breeding, unlike scalare.
Scott
Definitely. And difficult to acclimate when received unless previously acclimated to similar aquarium conditions.
mat_per
04-23-2006, 9:24 PM
I'd love to get my hands on some altums, if anyone has a connection here in Iowa please tell me.
oscar300
05-04-2006, 4:52 PM
mine were 25 sterling pounds. Keep them as a single fish or in a group of 6 or more. Any less and they will bully each other to death. I keep them at 28 celcius.
Watch out for the fake altums.....
These are my real altums..
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y31/oscar300/744719c0.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y31/oscar300/07073085.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y31/oscar300/altuminthefastlane.jpg
Majestic62
05-04-2006, 7:12 PM
These are by far the most beautiful Angelfish, to be honest I dont really like the other types. Im thinking of converting my 55 gallon to an Altum tank. Not sure if I could get hold of them easily though
phillausten
06-06-2006, 5:42 PM
I have seen German, Russian and polish tank breds in the UK. The Russian fish looked the best.
As Oscar said they kill each other as they mature, when in too small a group.
There is a huge mortality with the wildcaughts, few people understanding their needs.
They grow large (tall) this one is about two thirds grown, about 12" fintip to fintip, 14 or 15" to tip of pelvics. Hence the need for deep tanks.
See Finarama
phillausten
06-07-2006, 12:53 AM
sorry there should have been a photo
JuanTamad
06-07-2006, 10:16 AM
sorry there should have been a photo
My kind of Altum!.:clap :clap :clap
Response or lack thereof at the Angelfish Forum II drove you here too, Huh.:)
phillausten
06-08-2006, 3:14 AM
Not really, Angelfish II appears to be moribund at the moment, but Finarama has a good number of dedicated people posting who genuinely want to move things forward. I find this site is incredibly slow on my machine (I don't have broadband). I do have a bit of a bee in my bonnet about Altum inasmuch as this fish, the epitomy of what an angelfish should look like, it's image is to be found used commercially on aquatic products, but the fish are squandered suffering a huge mortality on import (90% has been mooted, and I have seen 100% on some importations!) How many people have seen adult Altum?
JuanTamad
06-09-2006, 10:32 PM
I have 6 huge two year old Altums, and 10 One year Olds that are as big as my breeding pairs of domesticated Angels.
The biggest Altums I've seen are the size of Discus at the Georgia Aquarium.
phillausten
06-10-2006, 1:25 AM
You are a lucky man Juan, do your Altums get along well together? The reason I ask is that the few fish that I have left, try to kill each other when I mix them. I believe that all the fish that I have had were males, and as they matured the customary bickering got steadily worse, untill fish were killed and I split them up. I was told that the original group was too small (5 fish) but I think that the sex of the fish might well have had something to do with it.
Regards, Phill.
Actually I have had them pair and lay in a 150g community but always sold them then, at the time they were harder to get o I got a premium price on mated pairs. You can keep a mating pair in as little as a standard 55g, (48"x12 1/2"x 21"), keep it warm (mid 80s), a little acidic (6.0-6.5 pH), and fairly soft (less than 6 dH). Feed then a good flake or small granule along with lots of live foods (black worms, tubifex worms, small earth worms, brine and fairy shrimp, young scuds, mosquito larvae, and very small crickets are all good choices, especially if you vary it a lot. They should go from 1-1 1/2" to around 6" long in less than 6 months and they will start pairing off around then. The tank should be planted and contain slate or tiles for egg depositing. The broods a smaller than with scalares but that might be because mine were always first or second time breeders. The only problems I had with them was that they got territorial in the community tank near breeding time and they would sometimes eat small tetras. In the early 80s I would get $50-60 a pair at first breeding, more if I took it in credit, this was from a dealer, about twice that retail. The juvies cost me around $2 each from the same dealer.
JuanTamad
06-10-2006, 10:32 PM
You are a lucky man Juan, do your Altums get along well together? The reason I ask is that the few fish that I have left, try to kill each other when I mix them. I believe that all the fish that I have had were males, and as they matured the customary bickering got steadily worse, untill fish were killed and I split them up. I was told that the original group was too small (5 fish) but I think that the sex of the fish might well have had something to do with it.
Regards, Phill.
They are currently in three groups of 5 and 5 for the one year olds and 6 for the 2 year olds.
So far I've had no problem with aggression leading to a casualty. I've seen them lunge at each other as other other Angels do but no harm results.
The six 2 year olds were survivors from a pack that started out as a group of ten. The whole pack got sick with columnaris like symptons but I was able to save seven of them. I gave away one to another Altum enthusiast about a year ago.
The ten were picked from a group that started out as thirty. Lost one to what looks like agression and the remaining ten was what remained after I sold off most of the pack.:)
JuanTamad
06-10-2006, 10:37 PM
Actually I have had them pair and lay in a 150g community but always sold them then, at the time they were harder to get o I got a premium price on mated pairs. You can keep a mating pair in as little as a standard 55g, (48"x12 1/2"x 21"), keep it warm (mid 80s), a little acidic (6.0-6.5 pH), and fairly soft (less than 6 dH). Feed then a good flake or small granule along with lots of live foods (black worms, tubifex worms, small earth worms, brine and fairy shrimp, young scuds, mosquito larvae, and very small crickets are all good choices, especially if you vary it a lot. They should go from 1-1 1/2" to around 6" long in less than 6 months and they will start pairing off around then. The tank should be planted and contain slate or tiles for egg depositing. The broods a smaller than with scalares but that might be because mine were always first or second time breeders. The only problems I had with them was that they got territorial in the community tank near breeding time and they would sometimes eat small tetras. In the early 80s I would get $50-60 a pair at first breeding, more if I took it in credit, this was from a dealer, about twice that retail. The juvies cost me around $2 each from the same dealer.
You could have mentioned that when you were here with Neo and the gang.:(
Thanks for this post. Now I'll just crank up the feedings and look to get some pairing action failrly soon. From your experiences, my current batch of Altums are way overdue on the pairing part.:D
It has been a few years since I kept them and it didn't even occur to me to mention it.
warm, soft, slightly acid water, lots of plants, and as much varied live food as they will eat. The first batch of eggs was almost always sterile or only had a few fertilized eggs, I would sell them then as I had buyers waiting and they would always report back they were getting successful spawnings in pair only breeding tanks.
Smaller ones like minced or chopped fresh earthworms and that is a pretty cheap way to go for the results.
I thought your angels were looking very nice.
JuanTamad
06-11-2006, 9:26 AM
$ 50 - 60 for a mated pair in the 80s? They would go $ 500, at least today.
Were they as hard to acclimate to tanks back then as they are this days. 90 - 100 % mortality are being reported for previously wild caught Altums. My experience was the same about 3 - 4 years ago until 2004 when I used combinations of antibiotics hours after they are moved from bags to tanks.
Also, were the Altums you kept self collected or purchased from lfs or importer?
Have to work on a local lfs owner about putting some Altums in his Amazon tank display to see if they will breed. I try to stay away from tanks with real plants.
I got mine from a very good LFS in Hayward, Ca. a very experienced dealer in touchy fish. I don't know how many he lost but the water pH and hardness was the same as my tank, I almost never lost any to acclimitazation. I do know there were times I had to wait for new smallones while his went through adjustment and quarantine, 2 weeks at least. There were also times he complained that an entire shipment had come in dead. He was the one who got most of mine when they paired off, he would take them to the LFS in San Francisco that his son ran, there they would double the price and sell them.
rkc772
06-11-2006, 5:35 PM
altums are really nice fish. i like the way their body is defined. really nice. regular angels are also pretty but altums stands out. lfs would sell jevenile for 20-25 dollars each. i don't know how big they are. but on aquabid some one is selling it for 100 dollars each. i would just buy the 25 dollar one. 100 dollars is too much. growing altums isn't too hard as long as you have the right water parameters.:)
Does anybody know where I can purchase quarter sized altums for a good price?