Firemouth Blue gill cross ?

[B_IN_SD]

I just had an interesting discussion about Hybrids. In Houston Tx. there is a 2-3 acre pond that was dug for highway overpasses and several years ago I caught several fish there that appeared to be a cross between a firemouth and a blue gill. The pond is in Spring branch. Harris county. The streets that border this pond are Hammerly Blvd, Hollister St. And Carousel Ln.

It may be possible for someone to go to this pond and still catch these.
Will some one in houston go and catch a few of these fish and post some pics for an ID. They are Very colorfull, the red of the firemouth was darker-- allmost maroon in color,the rest of the body was dark blue/green.


This fish was definatly a Hybrid.

[sandtiger]

Whatever they were they were not a cross between a firemouth and bluegill, they aren't closely related enough to cross breed. Bluegill are sunfishes in the Centrarchidae family, firemouths are cichlids in the Cichlidae family. They have entirely different evolutionary histories.

[B_IN_SD]

Exactly that's what my discussion was about. I am hopeing some one will go catch a few and post some pic's for all to see. That is also why I gave the Streets around the pond for who ever to find it. There are several possibilities of what the cross is.

[sandtiger]

Any other cichlids living in the area? If you know for sure that a firemouth was involved in the cross than through the process of elimination you should be able to figure out what it was crossed with just by knowing it can only breed with a handful of other cichlids. There are other Thorichthys species though, are you sure it wasen't one of them? Here is a list of them.
http://www.fishbase.org/NomenClature/ValidNameList.cfm?criteria=SYNONYMS.SynGenus+%3D+% 27thorichthys%27++AND+SYNONYMS.SynSpecies+like+%27 %25%25%27+&vtitle=Scientific+Names+where+Genus+Equals+%3Ci%3E Thorichthys%3C%2Fi%3E

[vinman]

I heard from a very good friend that sunnies and bass were going to be re-classified as cichlids. So this may be the reason for the hybrid between the two fish. BTW I was the other guy in the convo

[sandtiger]

I heard from a very good friend that sunnies and bass were going to re-classified as cichlids. So this may be the reason for the hybrid between the two fish. BTW I was the other guy in the convo

They aren't, I can assure you. Cichlids belong to the sub-order Labroidei along with wrasses (Labridae), damselfish (Pomacentridae), and surfperches (Embiotocidae) all being marine fishes. Sunfishes belong to the Percoidei sub-order along with over 50 other families. These sub-orders are divided into three superfamilies. The superfamily that sunfish belong to (also called Percoidei) includes groupers (Serranidae), perches (Perchidae) and temperate basses (Moronidae) among many others.

[jwong1024]

it is not possible, not even close!!!

[B_IN_SD]

Does anybody know a MFK'R in Houston that can go on a collecting trip ?

[young_rico]

i dont think firemouths would even make it through our winter down here.

[Mziskin]

one time a guy told me that he had a cichlid sunfish cross, it was a juvi pumpkinseed

[oscarcrazy]

I live in that area. I fish quite a bit and haven't caught anything that I would consider a cichlid/sunfish hybrid. Google your sunfish and eliminate all those first before before you call freaky hybrid. The longear is very colorful and has the coloration you describe. We also have tilapia that is ferral in most canals and retention ponds. Look for the possible first....

[sandtiger]

one time a guy told me that he had a cichlid sunfish cross, it was a juvi pumpkinseed

I come across lots of people who think cichlids are sunfish or vise versa.

[B_IN_SD]

The fish I am talking about are not pumkin seed or blue gill I do know what those are. You will not be disappointed if you go and collect a few !

[kevbc03]

It might have been the Thorichthys ellioti?

[Pomatomus]

Yeah centrarchids and cichlids aren't even in the same suborder; cichlids are more closely related to damselfish and wrasses than sunfishes.

There are at least five species of sunfish in the genus Lepomis that have orange bellies.

[knifegill]

While I do support the impossibility of a Thorichthys/Centrarchidae hybrid, I feel compelled to point out that our taxonomic nomenclature is just that, ours. Look at how often we move fish from one genus to another. This reorganization of our records does not change the hybridizing potential of the actual animals. Also, nature likes to break rules and you never know when two very unrelated species or families might produce offspring.

[vinman]

While I do support the impossibility of a Thorichthys/Centrarchidae hybrid, I feel compelled to point out that our taxonomic nomenclature is just that, ours. Look at how often we move fish from one genus to another. This reorganization of our records does not change the hybridizing potential of the actual animals. Also, nature likes to break rules and you never know when two very unrelated species or families might produce offspring.


I do agree you realy dont know what can happen look at the canary. Birds from SA, NA, Africa, Eroupe and Aisa have been crossed to canary, some produced fertile offspring resulting in a lot of the color and pattren variety's of canarys in the hobby today

[FishFreak95]

Yea, there are some strange looking sunfishes that don't look natural. Or maybe you have a sunfish hybrid