fish to go with my mata mata

[snakeguy101]

I am working on new 135 gal tank for my mata mata turtle (chelus fimbriatus) and would like to get some larger fish to compliment the tank. I already have 2 peacock bass and a large pleco but would like to get some other fish as well. It has to be big enough not to be eaten by the turtle but not too big as to outgrow the tank quickly. I would like to do an amazon themed tank as well so the water specifications will be acidic and warm. any suggestions on what i might keep? thank you in advance.
~Chris~

[coura]

I am working on new 135 gal tank for my mata mata turtle (chelus fimbriatus) and would like to get some larger fish to compliment the tank. I already have 2 peacock bass and a large pleco but would like to get some other fish as well. It has to be big enough not to be eaten by the turtle but not too big as to outgrow the tank quickly. I would like to do an amazon themed tank as well so the water specifications will be acidic and warm. any suggestions on what i might keep? thank you in advance.
~Chris~
I dont recomend doing the setup you are about to, sorry, matamatas like very shallow waters, kind of hidding place places full tank with lots of plants and a slow peacefull lifestyle wich is incopatible with the large fish your putting in. Also plecos and other big fish by that mater are a danger to your turtle, as well as a unnecessary sorce of competicion and stress. Dont do it man

[snakeguy101]

Thank you for your concerns but I have had the mata mata turtle for some time now and he is quite large so the tank is shallow enough for him to reach the surface and it had plenty of hiding spaces for him. The fish that are in there now have never seemed to cause any stress either, if anything, they avoid him.

[coura]

Thank you for your concerns but I have had the mata mata turtle for some time now and he is quite large so the tank is shallow enough for him to reach the surface and it had plenty of hiding spaces for him. The fish that are in there now have never seemed to cause any stress either, if anything, they avoid him.
Well at the very least remove the pleco, he will chew on your turt skin and shell and will leave it raw. Remenbar matas are botom walkers, they dont like to swim. I dont know how you manage to avoid the peacok ciclid from eating all of the mata food but it will be increasingly hard specialy as the fish grows large.

[snakeguy101]

I keep the tank stocked with minnows at all times and the Pbass and the mata mata eat as they need to ( I have set up a very large sump and canister filter to go with it as well as to counteract the amount of waste produced). The pleco has been in the tank for over a year now and has grown with the turtle, they stay on opposite ends of the tank a majority of the time and i have never once seen the pleco eating on the matamata. perhaps it is a rare circumstance for these animals to all be cooperating but they are...

[dirtyblacksocks]

I'm really becoming disheartened with this forum - it seems that 90% of the replies to anyone asking for advice are just lectures about how everything people are doing is being done wrong, and I'm wondering how many of them are just regurgitating facts that they've read on the internet - and how many of them have actual real time experience with the animals in question.

Either way - being a 20+ year hobbyist, I get really irked when I see anal retentive people going entirely overboard on the care requirements of an animal. Mata-mata's do fine with both pleco's and deeper watered tanks, so long as you have somthing free floating for them to hang onto when they see fit, and provided that the tank has hiding places for the pleco - as well as ample space for them to not constantly be in the same area.

As far as tank mates go - I would be inclined to recommend a large shoal of tetra, but since you're going to have pbass it's probably a bad idea. Most predator's get confused by a large group of tetra's and end up not eating any, but I think pbass being apex predators would have no problems getting a mouthful.

Have you considered doing some redhook silver dollars? Maybe a shoal of discus? There really are not a lot of options in a 135 gallon for South American fish that won't outgrow it but still coincide with a matamata and peacock bass. Especially if you're trying to stick to a South American biotype.

If I misinterpreted what you wrote and you won't be keeping the peacock bass in the new tank then you've got tons of options to go with.

[snakeguy101]

Thank you I am thinking that the silver dollars are going to be quickly consumed by the mata mata. I would like to try the discus, I think that they would be fine to go with the other animals in the tank but I have heard that they have strict water chemistry requirements. I am pretty good with keeping it stable but i dont want to invest in an overly delicate fish to go with a turtle. How hardy are Discus? Also, after doing quite a bit of research and finding that there are very few choices, I think I am going to go ahead and break the amazon theme and expand my options to other fish like gar or even something really cool like a freshwater lionfish. Snakeheads would be perfect but i understand they are illegal so they are probably out. I do live in FL however and understand that there are populations in the south, what are the rules of catching and keeping one so long as it never crosses a state line and is not purchased or traded? Stingrays crossed my mind but i figured that might not end well with the turtle stepping on one. I dont know much about them either. Can their stingers be removed without harm to they ray? All of these are just thoughts that I am throwing out there, I have not been researching any particular one species so pardon my ignorance.

Thank you

[dirtyblacksocks]

All of the husbandry questions about the care of specific fish should be addressed in their own individual forums. If silver dollars would be a meal for a matta matta then a discus would most definitely be one - silver dollars grow much larger and are a lot faster.

Redline/cobra snakeheads would make a meal out of everything in your tank once they get some size.

I would stick to target/dither fish such as silver dollars, roseline sharks ect. things that are fast moving and non-aggressive.

[uting]

snake heads, bichirs ( worked with me with my old AST), large cichlids , SDs,

[coura]

I'm really becoming disheartened with this forum - it seems that 90% of the replies to anyone asking for advice are just lectures about how everything people are doing is being done wrong, and I'm wondering how many of them are just regurgitating facts that they've read on the internet - and how many of them have actual real time experience with the animals in question.

Either way - being a 20+ year hobbyist, I get really irked when I see anal retentive people going entirely overboard on the care requirements of an animal. Mata-mata's do fine with both pleco's and deeper watered tanks, so long as you have somthing free floating for them to hang onto when they see fit, and provided that the tank has hiding places for the pleco - as well as ample space for them to not constantly be in the same area
Ok so your saing we should put animals well being in second plan and do what ever setup we want to do regardless of them?;) Plecos dont need hiding places to get of the mata way, they are the agressor not the hurted, the mata is the hurted, sooner or later pleco will do what pleco does and that is chew on stuff including other living things. I dont have a pleco-mata combo for many years to back it up but my own circunstancial evidence and other peoples direct evidence say its a very risky combo for the turtle. Plecos do injure wide surfaced fish and both hard shelled and softshelled turtles, period. If you ask to a experienced discus breeder if you can keep a big pleco with them he will trow stones at you. Matas are a delicate hard to adapt turtle species, they need shallow ,filled with vegetacion pristine warm waters and a calm lifestyle to tip the balance on their favor, that is actualy were you find them in the wild, having them to cope with fast deep water and stress from big fish going from one side to another may prove too much. Yes matas can drown:( And I beleave hands on esperience with this and like 26 other turtle species over 19 years gives me enough credit, thank you very much:D The reason we say no to a particular plan or combo is because we want to save other peoples ANIMALS, TIME, HARD WORK and TEARS for something that obviously aint gonna work, many times errors that have been done contless times and that cost MANY animal lifes. LEARN from others peoples mistakes dont comit your own, or at least new ones, not the same ones. In this case I beleave it is possible to reach a compromise. The pleco is in my opinion the bigest treat, maybe the peacok can be with the mata in the long run. However in its mind must allways be present the though that some day it could no longer work. Actualy a buch of big discus could be a great idea;) They are really peacefull and their temp and water requirements are the same as for the mata. At the same time they are hard to swallow, at least wille the mata is small

[snakeguy101]

If I notice any of the problems you have mentioned, they will certainly be addressed. I am not ignoring your advice however none of it as been accurate thus far. If I do see the pleco ever picking on the mata mata, I will move them into separate tanks but right now, all the pleco does is suck on the drift wood and occasionally the glass. I can assure you that the mata mata has absolutely no problems with reaching the top of the tanks for air as it is only about 75% full for that reason. I too have more than enough experience with aquatic turtles to know this along with how to care for my mata mata . Believe me, it is not the turtle i am worried about, it is the fish that i put in with him as he is going to be the most aggressive animal in the tank regardless of what else is in there. As far as the Silver dollar fish, i will look into those more, i was under the impression that they stayed small. I will also look into discus more. Thank you for all of your help.

[dirtyblacksocks]

You guys really need to start separating your posts into paragraphs for easier reading.

Pleco's will be less inclined to attach to turtles and harass them if they have their own hiding place, and even then they are far more inclined to suck/attach to a smooth soft shelled turtle.

Fish I would personally look into to go with a mata mata and peacock bass:
Red hook/wide bar silver dollars
Medium to large roseline sharks (iffy because of pbass)
6+ large bosemani rainbowfish (iffy because of pbass)
Flagtail/fei feung
Niger catfish
Royal clown knife
Jardini arowana (hit or miss, they can get psychotic at larger sizes)
Larger member of the geophagus family, such as altifrons
Oscar
Chocolate cichlid
Blue shark (canero azul)
Red tail giant gourami
Larger red tailed shark
Bucktooth/exodon tetra
Congo tetra
Buenos aires tetra


Keep in mind that it's always going to be hit and miss with turtles - odds are that sooner or later they're going to take a bite out of one of your fish.

[dirtyblacksocks]

Ok so your saing we should put animals well being in second plan and do what ever setup we want to do regardless of them?;) Plecos dont need hiding places to get of the mata way, they are the agressor not the hurted, the mata is the hurted, sooner or later pleco will do what pleco does and that is chew on stuff including other living things. I dont have a pleco-mata combo for many years to back it up but my own circunstancial evidence and other peoples direct evidence say its a very risky combo for the turtle. Plecos do injure wide surfaced fish and both hard shelled and softshelled turtles, period. If you ask to a experienced discus breeder if you can keep a big pleco with them he will trow stones at you. Matas are a delicate hard to adapt turtle species, they need shallow ,filled with vegetacion pristine warm waters and a calm lifestyle to tip the balance on their favor, that is actualy were you find them in the wild, having them to cope with fast deep water and stress from big fish going from one side to another may prove too much. Yes matas can drown:( And I beleave hands on esperience with this and like 26 other turtle species over 19 years gives me enough credit, thank you very much:D The reason we say no to a particular plan or combo is because we want to save other peoples ANIMALS, TIME, HARD WORK and TEARS for something that obviously aint gonna work, many times errors that have been done contless times and that cost MANY animal lifes. LEARN from others peoples mistakes dont comit your own, or at least new ones, not the same ones. In this case I beleave it is possible to reach a compromise. The pleco is in my opinion the bigest treat, maybe the peacok can be with the mata in the long run. However in its mind must allways be present the though that some day it could no longer work. Actualy a buch of big discus could be a great idea;) They are really peacefull and their temp and water requirements are the same as for the mata. At the same time they are hard to swallow, at least wille the mata is small

I bred discus for 5 years for a living before I decided it was way too much work - never did I have a problem with a pleco attaching to a discus, nor have I heard about it actually happening from any of my friends.

Pleco's generally only attach to fish when they are totally starved out and stressed for a lack of hiding spots - while I'm sure it can happen, I think it's due to a neglect for the pleco's environmental needs. Most discus breeders keep their discus in a completely bare bottom tank - in instances like that I can definitely see how a pleco might attack the fish.

[snakeguy101]

Thank you. I am looking into all of these options now.

I did not even think of a giant gourami, if I can come up with the money for one, it seems like my best bet thus far. It looks like i am going to go with the RHsilver dollars though as they are much more readily available.

[callmesethro]

I'd look into a scomb payara...sometimes youll get one thats communal...but they stress easily

[Vicious_Fish]

I think Flagtails and Red Hook Silver Dollars would be a good choice.

[elindra]

If you want more colour... they do well with earth eaters as well

[Death Pony]

Keep in mind that Mata matas have huge mouths that function as an underwater vacuum cleaner. Anything that is skinny enough to fit into their mouth will most likely be appreciated as a nice meal. Pbass would probably be the best option. I would contact a zoo employee and ask what they keep with them.

[snakeguy101]

According to a friend who works there, they keep large black pacus, arapima, and rays with theirs.

Also, here is a picture of the tank after it was first set up. I have since added a large Cypress knee and some more fake plants, and the water level has been lowered about an inch and a half.

[Vicious_Fish]

Nice tank. My only suggestion would be to have a shelf for the mata to rest on. They like to sit in shallow water where they just have to stretch their neck up to reach the surface as opposed to swimming to get air.

[coura]

Nice tank. My only suggestion would be to have a shelf for the mata to rest on. They like to sit in shallow water where they just have to stretch their neck up to reach the surface as opposed to swimming to get air.
Second that:popcorn:

[Death Pony]

The tank looks good! I second the shelf idea too.

[cobra blitz]

I have personally kept Silver dollars and Pacu with matas. Not only did I keep them together, but the matas were hatchlings. Trick is to find a balance. Enough space, good amazon black water environment and they are good. I did however take out the Pacus and then the silver dollars as the matas grew cuz I did not want to overcrowd them. Who knows what would have happened had i left them in... Just sharing my experience.

Deep water is cool, just as long as you have driftwood going from the bottom of the tank all the way up. They like climbing something sturdy and secure as opposed to them trying to latch on to something that is floating. Its cool if there is some water movement, although I would not run a super strong filter in their tank. Always ran small filters on mine. I'm sure bigger matas would handle more of a current in the water.

Biggest thing with Mata is keeping the water acidic and offering tons of live food!

My friend got a several Mata eggs this year. They were not good, but hey, its a start. These were the Amazon Matas too, they stay a lot smaller than the ones that are being imported.

[snakeguy101]

The mata mata does not have to swim for air, instead, he leans on the log on one side of the tank or the cypress knee (added after the picture) on the opposite side of the tank and is able to get to the surface easily that way. During the day he stays on the wood but as soon as the lights go out, he ventures into the deeper water to trap the minnows kept in there for him. It is interesting how he will lift his shell up on one side making a wall and herd the fish into a corner to eat them. He goes through about 500 minnows a month.

I am keeping the water acidic, i just added another 100ml of blackwater extract today and am keeping a close eye on the water quality. Also, i am running a powerhead on the surface of the water to give it more DO but the lower levels of the tank are rather stagnant and good mata mata conditions.

Mata mata eggs are very difficult to hatch (or they must be because no one has yet to do it) i have heard that they can stay viable for over 5 years but still not hatch according to my friend in the jacksonville zoo. good luck to who ever is trying to hatch them.

[cobra blitz]

The mata mata does not have to swim for air, instead, he leans on the log on one side of the tank or the cypress knee (added after the picture) on the opposite side of the tank and is able to get to the surface easily that way. During the day he stays on the wood but as soon as the lights go out, he ventures into the deeper water to trap the minnows kept in there for him. It is interesting how he will lift his shell up on one side making a wall and herd the fish into a corner to eat them. He goes through about 500 minnows a month.

I am keeping the water acidic, i just added another 100ml of blackwater extract today and am keeping a close eye on the water quality. Also, i am running a powerhead on the surface of the water to give it more DO but the lower levels of the tank are rather stagnant and good mata mata conditions.

Mata mata eggs are very difficult to hatch (or they must be because no one has yet to do it) i have heard that they can stay viable for over 5 years but still not hatch according to my friend in the jacksonville zoo. good luck to who ever is trying to hatch them.


Your mata enclsosure sounds good. Yeah, they like eating mostly at night.

Do you here the popping sound at night when they catch the fish? I would here that all night long when i had mine.

The San Diego Zoo has hatched out Mata already. I think I read that it took them over 10 years to actually reproduce after being setup in the enclosure they are currently in. There is an article about it in the TSA newsletter. A couple more individuals and institutions have bred them also. From what I have been told, a deep water habitat is key to breeding them. Hatching the eggs must be difficult too, a lot of the South American turtles are super tough to hatch out.

[snakeguy101]

Your mata enclsosure sounds good. Yeah, they like eating mostly at night.

Do you here the popping sound at night when they catch the fish? I would here that all night long when i had mine.

The San Diego Zoo has hatched out Mata already. I think I read that it took them over 10 years to actually reproduce after being setup in the enclosure they are currently in. There is an article about it in the TSA newsletter. A couple more individuals and institutions have bred them also. From what I have been told, a deep water habitat is key to breeding them. Hatching the eggs must be difficult too, a lot of the South American turtles are super tough to hatch out.

I had heard rumors about the Sand Diego zoo hatching them but it came from the same guy who told me he caught a fly river in his back yard so i did not believe him. Breeding and hatching are two different things completely though. thank you for the info.

[snakeguy101]

oh, and it is not so much of a popping sound as a ker-plunk or big splash. it used to scare the hell out of me when i first got him, especially when the woke me from a dead sleep!

[cobra blitz]

Yeah, the San Diego Zoo hatched out matas from their longterm adults that they bred. Story was published in the TSA(Turtle Survival Alliance) newsletter, and thats a pretty reliable source.

[snakeguy101]

Cool, anyone have a link to the article, I can't find it.

[cobra blitz]

I'll try and dig it up. Chances are it is only in the newsletter as you have to pay to be a member and receive the newletter. I'll look for that same article or another one though.

[cobra blitz]

Cool, anyone have a link to the article, I can't find it.

You are in luck. I found it! Although its not really a whole article about just the mata. Here is the link, its on page 16.

http://www.turtlesurvival.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/TSA_Aug2008_Newsletter_Lite.pdf


The whole newsletter is awesome.

[snakeguy101]

You are in luck. I found it! Although its not really a whole article about just the mata. Here is the link, its on page 16.

http://www.turtlesurvival.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/TSA_Aug2008_Newsletter_Lite.pdf


The whole newsletter is awesome.

fantastic, thank you!

[coura]

Here is a interesting thing about matas breeding. Aparently they were bred with relatively ease and quite often in european zoos and by hobbists like 30 years ago but aparently now its a rare event for some reason:confused: