PLease Think B4 BUYING

[tyson]

On the topic of wildlife & endadered species:

Its never RIGHT to play with wildlife & especially endangered species.
Your purchase of any wildlife will cause these few consequences which maybe irreversible.

1.) Promotes illegal pouching of wild life.
2.) Effects its already scarce population.
3.) Deprive future reproduction.
4.) Deprive of food for other wild creatures.
5.) Deprive of our future generations to enjoy & see what we have seen.

Its a chain reaction & it will come back to haunt us one way or another.
IMO we humans are just too greedy & selfish & have no respect for wildlife & their well being. Just look at our humble sharks & their fins....

However, IF they are bred commercially or home breeding, I have not objections.

Illegal wildlife trade is still taking place till today right here under our noses, & the animals don’t get 1st class treatment either. Lock in the smallest of packaging, no food, no water, some times ever no air, they are shipped around the world, via AIR, SEA, RAIL, & ROAD.

It’s a real sad situation & it takes all to cooperate. I can go on & on but I think I should end here. Sure hope my message can inspire others to STOP the buying.

[guppy]

Not to mention expensive if you get caught, check your CITES listings.

[rayman45]

nicly said

[Vince]

nicly said
Yes. Nicely said. It is worth mentioning that there are some fish that are farmed and therefore not in the "wildlife" category, but captive breeding.

[BGG]

On the topic of wildlife & endadered species:

Its never RIGHT to play with wildlife & especially endangered species.
Your purchase of any wildlife will cause these few consequences which maybe irreversible.

1.) Promotes illegal pouching of wild life.
2.) Effects its already scarce population.
3.) Deprive future reproduction.
4.) Deprive of food for other wild creatures.
5.) Deprive of our future generations to enjoy & see what we have seen.

Its a chain reaction & it will come back to haunt us one way or another.
IMO we humans are just too greedy & selfish & have no respect for wildlife & their well being. Just look at our humble sharks & their fins....

However, IF they are bred commercially or home breeding, I have not objections.

Illegal wildlife trade is still taking place till today right here under our noses, & the animals don’t get 1st class treatment either. Lock in the smallest of packaging, no food, no water, some times ever no air, they are shipped around the world, via AIR, SEA, RAIL, & ROAD.

It’s a real sad situation & it takes all to cooperate. I can go on & on but I think I should end here. Sure hope my message can inspire others to STOP the buying.

Agreed! :)

[Vince]

See the problem with the economy right now is that in order to make money, you need to be able to feed your kids in the thirld world, where most of our "farmed fish" is raised. So, if I was to make money to feed my family, and give them a better life by providing to exporters where it is available farmed...

what would be your advice?

[nick]

think about it

if you have 5 fish and a couple are oddballs chances are theres a couple wilds in there which are poached more then 90 percent of the time.... including all rays from south american as of 3 months ago when the limits were exceeded, now brazil has banned the export of rays

[lil_punisher]

serious stuff, i appreciate the specific info about the rays because it gives me something concrete to chew on instead of just talking broadly. does anyone else have any examples? :eek:

[thefishofdoom]

bichirs are imported sometimes and oscars sometimes and rtc sometimes almost all fish in a pet store can be bought wild caught.

[mfm1975]

although wild caught fish may have better colors and are very attractive its not worth threating the species to keep them

[toxicfish]

I agree with what you said tyson:clap

[yourmylunch]

i have to agree but also show he other side

a good point was made earlier about feeding your children in poor countries

soem wild species need to be imported to keep a good genetic stock for breeding

to preserve them, think of lake victria ciclids if they were not in captivity they would be extinct the same with many livebearers

now i'm going to eat a tasty manatee steak and go to bed

[kentobizmol]

On the topic of wildlife & endadered species:

Its never RIGHT to play with wildlife & especially endangered species.
Your purchase of any wildlife will cause these few consequences which maybe irreversible.

1.) Promotes illegal pouching of wild life.
2.) Effects its already scarce population.
3.) Deprive future reproduction.
4.) Deprive of food for other wild creatures.
5.) Deprive of our future generations to enjoy & see what we have seen.

Its a chain reaction & it will come back to haunt us one way or another.
IMO we humans are just too greedy & selfish & have no respect for wildlife & their well being. Just look at our humble sharks & their fins....

However, IF they are bred commercially or home breeding, I have not objections.

Illegal wildlife trade is still taking place till today right here under our noses, & the animals don’t get 1st class treatment either. Lock in the smallest of packaging, no food, no water, some times ever no air, they are shipped around the world, via AIR, SEA, RAIL, & ROAD.

It’s a real sad situation & it takes all to cooperate. I can go on & on but I think I should end here. Sure hope my message can inspire others to STOP the buying.


well said, but i still want that SPOTTED GAR! thats illegal in my state. grrrr...

[mon]

i doubt such poaching will ever stops....

[ballsmcgee1234]

nicely stated...

[Half]

Save the wild life (exterminate the species threatening us/our crops/our livestock).
That's hypocrisy.

[billet-o-fish]

+1

[downset21]

i have to agree but also show he other side

a good point was made earlier about feeding your children in poor countries

soem wild species need to be imported to keep a good genetic stock for breeding

to preserve them, think of lake victria ciclids if they were not in captivity they would be extinct the same with many livebearers

now i'm going to eat a tasty manatee steak and go to bed


i hate manatees... that's my only contribution, sorry.

[justchill3n]

I agree. Nicely put togeher.

[riggs]

Save the wild life (exterminate the species threatening us/our crops/our livestock).
That's hypocrisy.


it is ironic isnt it.... :thumbsup:

[dapike1979]

Agreed! :)

Agreed! :clap

[viciousconvict]

agreed
my mom's an an ecologist with phd's in entomology and ecology, and I grew up wth that sort of sentiment. Of course, if you released a non native fish in the wild, she'd be out there with a fishign line and a frying pan

[viciousconvict]

mind you, she doesn't approve of the pet trade at all...

[Half]

Still, they tend to live longer in captivity

[bentank1]

On the topic of wildlife & endadered species:

Its never RIGHT to play with wildlife & especially endangered species.
Your purchase of any wildlife will cause these few consequences which maybe irreversible.

1.) Promotes illegal pouching of wild life.
2.) Effects its already scarce population.
3.) Deprive future reproduction.
4.) Deprive of food for other wild creatures.
5.) Deprive of our future generations to enjoy & see what we have seen.

Its a chain reaction & it will come back to haunt us one way or another.
IMO we humans are just too greedy & selfish & have no respect for wildlife & their well being. Just look at our humble sharks & their fins....

However, IF they are bred commercially or home breeding, I have not objections.

Illegal wildlife trade is still taking place till today right here under our noses, & the animals don’t get 1st class treatment either. Lock in the smallest of packaging, no food, no water, some times ever no air, they are shipped around the world, via AIR, SEA, RAIL, & ROAD.

It’s a real sad situation & it takes all to cooperate. I can go on & on but I think I should end here. Sure hope my message can inspire others to STOP the buying.



:iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

[rook45]

i would still like to have a gold aro. like someone else said paching will never really stop there's too much money on the black market.

[xrtg]

it will never stop if species are not widely available and cheap. ;)

[ewurm]

it will never stop if species are not widely available and cheap. ;)

Unfortunately I agree. Greed is more powerful than good (conservation). I am a republican, and I am ashamed to say it. But common sense should always overrule politics.

[tyson]

Dear ALL

I am gald my message can touch so many of you.

REMEMBER:
WHEN THE BUYING STOPS, THE KILLING STOPS TOO

[dmarinko]

definately i totally agree

[dmarinko]

republicans rule i am one too

[dmarinko]

dont be ashamed

[limz_777]

when there are demand, there will always be poaching, sad but true...

[te9500rpm]

i just have learned this experience and will never do it again. right now i have 4 red belly pacu's in a 15g tank i never knew they were going to be terribly monster. right now im going to sell them to anyone who can properly house them and make them happy.. im so pissed at myself that i didnt do any research about this fish 1st b4 buying it. from now on b4 i buy a fish im gonna do some research about it or ask some people here at MFK for help. i really learned a lot in this forum. :)

[hewhorunswithscissors]

I'll be the bad guy and say I DON'T agree with the original post. I do in principal but not in pratice. Its a little too black and white... sounds very PETA-esque. I keep several species that are wild caught and are not currently bred in captivity. And I don't feel bad about it. Now, I would NOT buy something wild caught that I knew was either endangered or regulated (CITES listed)... like FRT which are poached.

What we really need is to develop something like they are doing with SaltWater. Like the MARINE AQUARIUM COUNCIL (MAC)... they have studied the effect of harvesting, the methods, etc, and worked hard to come up with SUSTAINABLE practices and then worked to get those practices implemented at the collecting level... working with the local fisherman. Trying to change the way collection takes place while still enabling the porr collector in Third World country X to make a living and support his family.

There seems to be NO freshwater equivalent. Partly because many many of the fish most common in the pet trade are bred in captivity. But, we have to face the facts that many of the oddballs are not... and there needs to be a concerted effort to manage the wild populations and create a system for sustainable harvesting... wether that harvesting is for food for the local community or for the pet trade.

But perhaps, the fact is that its not necessary because only a few of the "oddballs" really are wild caught, and not in large numbers... so there is not a huge effect? ANd the high-volume fish are all raised on farms (even Widebar Dats are farm raised and only farmed ones are allowed to be exported from Thailand... wild ones cannot be exported). But, my thought is, we might assume this, but has the research really been done? We need to know this... not assume this, and unfortunately, there is not an organized effort out there in the FW hobby to address this issue, as there has been in the SW hobby...

saying "don't buy wild caught fish" is far too simplistic.

Stepping off the soapbox now...

[CHOMPERS]

I'll be the bad guy and say I DON'T agree with the original post. I do in principal but not in pratice. Its a little too black and white... sounds very PETA-esque...

:iagree: I was thinking that those first posts were more PETA infiltrations too. That one in the middle of the page...definately. And to think we are feeding those jerks with every word we write here :swear: I shall forever watch what I say publicly...Did I tell you the one about when I put an overfed feeder in my tank ...and when the fish attacked it...the guts squished out everywere...it was so coool :naughty:

[Dominuslive]

I'll be the bad guy and say I DON'T agree with the original post. I do in principal but not in pratice. Its a little too black and white... sounds very PETA-esque. I keep several species that are wild caught and are not currently bred in captivity. And I don't feel bad about it. Now, I would NOT buy something wild caught that I knew was either endangered or regulated (CITES listed)... like FRT which are poached.

What we really need is to develop something like they are doing with SaltWater. Like the MARINE AQUARIUM COUNCIL (MAC)... they have studied the effect of harvesting, the methods, etc, and worked hard to come up with SUSTAINABLE practices and then worked to get those practices implemented at the collecting level... working with the local fisherman. Trying to change the way collection takes place while still enabling the porr collector in Third World country X to make a living and support his family.

There seems to be NO freshwater equivalent. Partly because many many of the fish most common in the pet trade are bred in captivity. But, we have to face the facts that many of the oddballs are not... and there needs to be a concerted effort to manage the wild populations and create a system for sustainable harvesting... wether that harvesting is for food for the local community or for the pet trade.

But perhaps, the fact is that its not necessary because only a few of the "oddballs" really are wild caught, and not in large numbers... so there is not a huge effect? ANd the high-volume fish are all raised on farms (even Widebar Dats are farm raised and only farmed ones are allowed to be exported from Thailand... wild ones cannot be exported). But, my thought is, we might assume this, but has the research really been done? We need to know this... not assume this, and unfortunately, there is not an organized effort out there in the FW hobby to address this issue, as there has been in the SW hobby...

saying "don't buy wild caught fish" is far too simplistic.

Stepping off the soapbox now...

In the marine environment, coral reefs basically, the water is clear, and scientists can get a fairly decent count. But in most FW habitats, the water is murky and silt ridden, making such counts almost impossible. The only real way to check in FW is with a seine. Are you gonna hold the seine across the Amazon?

[Geordie John]

Yep Exactly,
If my kids needed food or shoes I'd collect anything, cultivate plants to be missused , kill, rob graves and eat the rich. It's our end of the market thats wrong.
( Thats in repie to Vince )

[BDawg364]

I agree with the original post, but I want to throw out an oservation here while we're on the topic. We want people to stop buying wild caught fish, yet on this forum there is the atitude that the bigger, better, rarer fish you have makes you a cooler fishkeeper. We see people on this site with sweet fish, and we all try to out-do each other with a rarer monster. Pretty much the only way you will acquire a fish that limited people have is buying it wild caught from an importer. We say we shouldn't buy them, yet we praise those who do. Its quite the double standard....

Thats just my opinion. I am all for preservation of the wildlife, bu I also like to see an uncommon fish in a household tank every once in a while. Its an attention getter, which is one of the reasons people keep the fish they do.

[Lupin]

We can always try. Even if the poaching continues, we'll have to keep trying even if we are fighting a losing battle.:)

Chinese poachers here in the Philippines managed to bail themselves out despite the fact that they tried to catch 350 Napoleon wrasses(which are listed endangered under CITES) and smuggle them out of the country.:( There are several articles that say Chinese waters were already overfished and they seem to be infiltrating other nearby countries for their own resources.:irked:

[Oscarboyz]

completely true!

[santoury]

This is in-line with what I've been talking about - wondering why I never hear about breeding attempts on never-before, or rarely bred species. My 2 examples are Osphronemus, and Protopterus, that I'm working with.

[Abi88]

On the topic of wildlife & endadered species:

Its never RIGHT to play with wildlife & especially endangered species.
Your purchase of any wildlife will cause these few consequences which maybe irreversible.

1.) Promotes illegal pouching of wild life.
2.) Effects its already scarce population.
3.) Deprive future reproduction.
4.) Deprive of food for other wild creatures.
5.) Deprive of our future generations to enjoy & see what we have seen.

Its a chain reaction & it will come back to haunt us one way or another.
IMO we humans are just too greedy & selfish & have no respect for wildlife & their well being. Just look at our humble sharks & their fins....

However, IF they are bred commercially or home breeding, I have not objections.

Illegal wildlife trade is still taking place till today right here under our noses, & the animals don’t get 1st class treatment either. Lock in the smallest of packaging, no food, no water, some times ever no air, they are shipped around the world, via AIR, SEA, RAIL, & ROAD.

It’s a real sad situation & it takes all to cooperate. I can go on & on but I think I should end here. Sure hope my message can inspire others to STOP the buying.
Very nicely put! Great wording of your feelings! Thanks!

[Nabbig2]

On the topic of wildlife & endadered species:

Its never RIGHT to play with wildlife & especially endangered species.
Your purchase of any wildlife will cause these few consequences which maybe irreversible.

1.) Promotes illegal pouching of wild life.
2.) Effects its already scarce population.
3.) Deprive future reproduction.
4.) Deprive of food for other wild creatures.
5.) Deprive of our future generations to enjoy & see what we have seen.

Its a chain reaction & it will come back to haunt us one way or another.
IMO we humans are just too greedy & selfish & have no respect for wildlife & their well being. Just look at our humble sharks & their fins....

However, IF they are bred commercially or home breeding, I have not objections.

Illegal wildlife trade is still taking place till today right here under our noses, & the animals don’t get 1st class treatment either. Lock in the smallest of packaging, no food, no water, some times ever no air, they are shipped around the world, via AIR, SEA, RAIL, & ROAD.

It’s a real sad situation & it takes all to cooperate. I can go on & on but I think I should end here. Sure hope my message can inspire others to STOP the buying.

Wow, I never knew there was a moderator with only 669 posts.

[JoeyCraig3]

Keep in mind that alot of fish species that are captured in the wild, are captured responsibly and it helps the local economy a whole lot.....granted alot of them are irresponsibly harvested and that helps no one.....but they also consider that if they harvest too many than they will run out and the supply will be ruined as will their business...

[Hsi Wang Hu]

This is in-line with what I've been talking about - wondering why I never hear about breeding attempts on never-before, or rarely bred species. My 2 examples are Osphronemus, and Protopterus, that I'm working with.

I have been wondering the same thing. Why some of these hard to breed in captivity or never before bred in captivity are not attempted more or at least the information on the attempts made public?

[seds]

.delete

[Thedaniokeeper]

I agree with the second argument.
I am in no way approving of overfishing, and I am an environmentalist.
I just think that, on the logic of the fist argument:
1:Our hobby shouldn't exist, all fish were wild caught at some point
2:we shouldn't be eating any fish either, because they were caught
3:Fish like Red tailed shark and endler's livebearers will go extinct, according to 1.

I dissaprove the keeping of endangered species that still have a chance, But most animals I don't see why we can't (unless they bite).

[Silver Crescent]

I agree with the argument numero dos. Sure, I love the environment, I love animals, heck, I'm a vegetarian of FIVE years, but I'm still going to keep my tank full of fish, I'm still going to train my horses, buy parrots...You know why? Because it's something I enjoy, something that makes me happy, and I know my animals are well cared for, and HAPPY, most importantly. And in the end, that's what matters to me. If the animal is going to go exctinct, we might as well catch them, and set up a captive breeding program devoted to them, and slowly attempt to release them back into the wild. This earth won't last forever, it's going to deteriorate no matter what we do, so we might as well do our best to help these animals out, because being poached in the wild, eaten, and just dying out is not getting them anywhere. PETA can bite me, on most topics, though I will agree that I hate inhumane treatment towards animals, the way they are slaughtered, fur coats too.... I mean, I understand fur if you're in some third world country and killed it yourself, but dang, these rabbits, foxes, and other beautiful animals died for the sake of FASHION? GIVE ME A BREAK. I'll keep them as my pets, but never as my coats, thank you very much :)

[richardlovesfish]

I keep a roseline shark, which i heard is endangered i dont think its wrong to keep emdangered species, who knows in a few years time roseline sharks could be gone and people will need to use ones sold in the aquarium trade to restart the wild populations, and if that happens i will gladly donate/set up more tanks for the cause of the roseline shark.

also, arent red tailed black sharks completely exstinct in the wild now?

[oneyedfish]

Well stated.

[johnanderton]

i agree

[Cholly]

I have been wondering the same thing. Why some of these hard to breed in captivity or never before bred in captivity are not attempted more or at least the information on the attempts made public?In many, if not most cases, greed. If only you know the secret, you can get more money for the fish you breed.
Unfortunate, but part of man's nature.

[abortedsoul]

I agree with the argument numero dos. Sure, I love the environment, I love animals, heck, I'm a vegetarian of FIVE years, but I'm still going to keep my tank full of fish, I'm still going to train my horses, buy parrots...You know why? Because it's something I enjoy, something that makes me happy, and I know my animals are well cared for, and HAPPY, most importantly. And in the end, that's what matters to me. If the animal is going to go exctinct, we might as well catch them, and set up a captive breeding program devoted to them, and slowly attempt to release them back into the wild. This earth won't last forever, it's going to deteriorate no matter what we do, so we might as well do our best to help these animals out, because being poached in the wild, eaten, and just dying out is not getting them anywhere. PETA can bite me, on most topics, though I will agree that I hate inhumane treatment towards animals, the way they are slaughtered, fur coats too.... I mean, I understand fur if you're in some third world country and killed it yourself, but dang, these rabbits, foxes, and other beautiful animals died for the sake of FASHION? GIVE ME A BREAK. I'll keep them as my pets, but never as my coats, thank you very much :)

I hold a position that is similar in many regards. I think the earth could last very, very long indeed- if we only gained the required knowledge to care for it.

[undyingguitarist]

i appreciate someone who cares deeply for wildlife, thanks for the post!!!!!

[uncwnells]

Very good pint

[violetgobiesarethebest]

Well said, I completely agree with you. Even the idea of shark fin soup sickens me. I love sharks! :( That's why i'm going for my diving course.