A. Compressiceps, or A. Calvus?

[SKAustin]

So i introduce my A. Compressiceps, to which i recieve the following reply:

hmm yah I have trouble on that I am pretty sure its calvus not comp. but I see so much on the internet calling that fish an Altolamprologus Calvus and Altolamprologus Compressiceps that I wonder if they are the same thing. When I go to lfs and look in books they always call it a Altolamprologs Calvus or just Calvus. Anyone wanna clarify that for me b/c I am retarded?
Which now leaves question in my mind as the two are so very similar. At this time, I still believe this to be A. Compressiceps as it was purchased as such from a reputable LFS who employs a woman who also works for a Tanganyikan Cichlid Breeder. I have 2 A. Compressiceps and 4 A. Calvus, and though the appearances are strikingly similar, their behaviors are considerably different. But for the record, I wanted to get some opinions of others here at MFK.

A. Compressiceps, or A. Calvus?

[Ash]

yah I dont know to much about them i just kinda looked it up and they looked the same to me which is why I was wondering o__o

[SKAustin]

I figure this would be a better place for the question. I dont think it will get all that many responses in the "introduce yourself" section.

[Ash]

yah lol i didnt even noitce it was moved. well hopefull someone will help us out =)

[SKAustin]

Ive posted the same question on a few other forums as well, but i think the biggest restriction to a concise answer will be the fact that this is just a juvenile. Most of the physical characteristics that seperate the two cannot be seen yet. Who knows, maybe we'll have to wait a year before we know for sure.

[ogre929]

looks like a compressiceps to me. Looks like it might be a yellow. it will take some time before it's decent size. damn things grow too slow. doesn't stop it from being one of my all time favorite fish though.

[SKAustin]

I have established one of the few discerning factors between A. Calvus and A. Compressiceps (not sure why i didnt know this one before). A Compressiceps has scales on its forehead whereas A. Calvus has only 9 rows of scales preceeding its dorsal fin. It is Visible, though difficult to see in the photo that the Fish in question does in fact have scales on it's forehead. They begin at the first stripe and appear to be about 15-18 rows of scales preceeding the Dorsal Fin.

[Honda12]

There are three different sp. of Altolamprologus, A. calvus, A. compressiceps, and A. fasciatus. A. calvus and A. compressiceps are similar in appearence but they aren't to hard to distinguish from each other. A. compressiceps tends to be more deep bodied than the A. clavus. Also they tend to have more of an arched forehead than A. calvus. Most A. compressiceps tend not to have the spotting on the side of the body where A. calvus does.
The fish you have is a calvus for sure. Which kind can be harder to establish cause they will lighten or darken depending on the surroundings in which they are kept. If I had to guess which type you would have I would say a yellow calvus.

Here is a profile and pics of a yellow calvus and the second is of an A. compressiceps.
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1579
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1581

[SKAustin]

The fish you have is a calvus for sure.
Still not convinced. Especially after looking at the links. I have two yellow calvus. This is not one of them. Again, the Scales on the forehead lead me to believe that this is a Comp, as does the slope of his forehead in comparison with the Calvus (sadly, that is not visible in the photo). Again remember that this is a juvenile specimen. As for the spots, My other one had spots, but they have since faded and are no longer visible.

[Honda12]

I don't know I have kept all three sp. before and have kept a lot of different varients. IMO it still think it is a calvus, but I still maybe wrong. Just my 2 cents on it. You have a lot of good reasons but body shape and everything IMO just leans towards a calvus. Guess the only real way to find out it just to let it grow.

[Honda12]

If you want a better more accurate ID I would try posting it at www.cichid-forum.com. You would get a lot more of a disscusion on it over there than you would here. Again though I would have to stick with a calvus.

[SKAustin]

I'll see what I can do to get a good profile photo tomorrow, Perhaps a few of the calvus as well. Another point of interest is the behavioral differences. Every calvus I've ever seen have this "bobbing their tail end while there front remains still" habit, almost as though they were pivoting by their eye sockets. The Comps (we'll just call them that for now to eliminate confusion) have never done this. The Comps tend to spend a fair amount of thier time hanging out in the caves whereas all of my Calvus are completely content hanging out in the open. and lastly, the Calvus, when threatened, will turn their side to an aggressor arching their back to the side to flare out their scales. This is a known defensive tactic of the calvus as their scales are very thick and will injure an attacking fish's lips. The Comps however just dart away and hide in their cave.

Dont get me wrong, i really wouldnt mind either way. But I'd really like to know for sure.

[Taz2478]

I agree with Honda, the head/mouth has been my usual distinction. The calvus has a somewhat straighter look as the comp makes a slope like its gonna get a hump.

try geting a better side shot.

[Ash]

well I guess I brought up a good question then! Cant wait to see what it is when it gets bigger!! I still think its a calvus though. Hopefully this will help alot of us be able to tell the difference in juvies =)

[M|L]

It's a clavus.

[M|L]

Even though I'm not interested in cichlids, I'm still the cichlid master here.

:p

Ash, step aside.

[Ash]

Even though I'm not interested in cichlids, I'm still the cichlid master here.

:p

Ash, step aside.
go back to your datnoids I pointed this out first :yuck: :p

[M|L]

Anyone wanna clarify that for me b/c I am retarded?

so, you're finally admitting it.

:D

I bolded the words incase you need another half hour to figure it out. :ROFL:

[ogre929]

well I guess I brought up a good question then! Cant wait to see what it is when it gets bigger!! I still think its a calvus though. Hopefully this will help alot of us be able to tell the difference in juvies =)

I'm in agreement. Well in that it got me thinking about the differences as juvies. I still think it is a compy though. :woot:

[SKAustin]

Here are a few more photos. And based on the differences, I still have doubt that this is a calvus. Still leaning towards Comp. but here are a few better shots. First is the fish in question with a calvus.

[SKAustin]

Here is the Calvus

[SKAustin]

Here is the Comp

[SKAustin]

here is a better closeup of the scales on the forehead. I still count well more than 9 rows of scales

[Honda12]

Yeah I know the difference between the two sp. but I guess that we just need a better side view of the fish in question.

[SKAustin]

Yeah I know the difference between the two sp. but I guess that we just need a better side view of the fish in question.
Posts #20 - #23 are the fish in question. The photos were taken this morning.

[Honda12]

Well if that is the same fish as the oringinal post than it is definalty a comp. You can tell just by looking at it. Guess it was just hard to distinguish from the oringinal pic. Nice one by the way too.

[SKAustin]

Well if that is the same fish as the oringinal post than it is definalty a comp. You can tell just by looking at it. Guess it was just hard to distinguish from the oringinal pic. Nice one by the way too.
Thank you Honda12. :clap I do understand that the first pic was a bit difficult to discern, which is why I went nuts with the camera this morning. I was able to get great shots of all of my fish this morning. well, except my yellow calvus, they were camera shy today.

[M|L]

that's not the best way to distinguish the two.

here's a calvus:

[Honda12]

Yeah I was going to say I swoar my calvus had scales on their forehead too, but I had no proof, thanks MlL.

[SKAustin]

that's not the best way to distinguish to two.

here's a calvus:

An ADULT? yes. Did you happen to catch the part of the conversation where we stated that the fish here in question were juveniles, at less than 2"? Most of the more discernable differences are not as obvious when the fish are younger.

Sorry, i think i may have mistook your point in that, were you referancing the scales on the head? If so, you make a good point on that, It does appear as there are more than nine rows on that fishes forehead. Though it is hard to tell.

[M|L]

yup, the scales. :)

[SKAustin]

yup, the scales. :)
So am i to assume that your position remains that all of the fish in posts #1, #20, #21, #22, and #23 are all Calvus?

[M|L]

So am i to assume that your position remains that all of the fish in posts #1, #20, #21, #22, and #23 are all Calvus?

no.

but your fish is.

:ROFL:

[SKAustin]

no.

but your fish is.

:ROFL:

Um, ok
THOSE ARE MY FISH!

Sorry, didnt mean to yell. Tell me oh wise one, which are calvus and which are Compressiceps.

[M|L]

Tell me oh wise one, which are calvus and which are Compressiceps.

what do you mean? lol

I'm having an "Ash moment" here.

:confused::confused:

[SKAustin]

So am i to assume that your position remains that all of the fish in posts #1, #20, #21, #22, and #23 are all Calvus?
no.

but your fish is.

:ROFL:
Tell me oh wise one, which are calvus and which are Compressiceps.
what do you mean? lol

I'm having an "Ash moment" here.

:confused::confused:

I mean, I have posted Photos on posts #1, #20, #21, #22, and #23.

You say that not all of the photos I have posted are Calvus, but my fish, assuming that you are speaking of the photo in post #1, is in fact a Calvus.

So my question is: Can you name for me what each fish is on posts #1, #20, #21, #22, and #23?

Like this:
#1, Compressiceps
#20, Compressiceps (top), Calvus (bottom)
#21, Calvus
#22, Compressiceps
#23, Compressiceps (forehead)

[M|L]

I never said, "not all of the photos you have posted are calvus".

I only said that your way of distingushing the two species by using the scale method may not work 100%.

;)

[SKAustin]

So am i to assume that your position remains that all of the fish in posts #1, #20, #21, #22, and #23 are all Calvus?
no.

but your fish is.

:ROFL:

Then what is that? Am I missing something?

[M|L]

ok, I was too lazy to look at the post numbers.

sorry.

post # 1, 20, 21 are calvus IMO.

[SKAustin]

22 and 23? any ideas?

[M|L]

22 and 23? any ideas?

I don't get it.

First of all, they're both the same fish.

Second, you've already stated that they're compressiceps, so why are you asking me? :ROFL:

[SKAustin]

Because I like to test the intelligence of teenagers who think they know it all.

[SKAustin]

I'll appologise for that last comment as it was a juvenile thing to say, But you cant just say:It's a Calvus

Even though I'm not interested in cichlids, I'm still the cichlid master here.Without providing any explaination whatsoever, and still expect to be taken seriously.

[M|L]

ummm, I was joking.

you shouldn't have taken it seriously.

but, even though I'm still a 17 year old, I've probably kept more fish than most of the people here.

[SKAustin]

ummm, I was joking.

you shouldn't have taken it seriously.

but, even though I'm still a 17 year old, I've probably kept more fish than most of the people here.

And I appreciate your experience. As do I appreciate your jest. And Ive been keeping fish now for 20+ years, and i can still be wrong. But I've really got my heart set on putting this question to rest. Ive recieved conflicting statements from around the different forums, and its really getting a bit tiring.

[M|L]

even those cichlid geeks at cichlid-forum can't give you a straight answer??

[SKAustin]

I will say though, it has made for an interesting thread ;)

[SKAustin]

even those cichlid geeks at cichlid-forum can't give you a straight answer??
A few folks have reversed their opinions based on the second set of photos. A fellow Tang keeper at TFC states it's Definatly a comp.
Definitely a Comp, the upturned mouth is enough to conclude. Time for you to look smug :)

Great pictures by the way.
But there are still the ones that come in and say "It's this!" or It's that" then leave without explaination.

[M|L]

Are the fishes in post 20 and 21 your fish or you took from the web??

[SKAustin]

All myown fish, All myown Photography.

[SKAustin]

Let me know if you wanna see more. Ive got 2 55 gallon tanks of Cichlids 1 malawi and 1 tangs

[M|L]

when the fish is relaxed (the fish in question), does it still show prominent stripes throughout the body?

[SKAustin]

There are actually two that are "In question" they are identical except in size, and the one tends to pale out more than the other. The smaller one, in the photo with the calvus, will pale out to where his stripes are barely visible (as seen in the photo), the larger one in posts 1, 22, and 23 does not seem to pale out as often or as drastically as its sibling. But they are both from the same brood.

[SKAustin]

A few things not visible in the photos. There is an orangeish hue around their cheeks, and both fish are much darker than they appear in the photos.

Here's a photo you might appreciate.

[Taz2478]

21&22 you can see the shape of the mouths, even when small that shape is there. A lfs had a show tank with both in there, thats how I got to see the differences.

[Ash]

so, you're finally admitting it.

:D

I bolded the words incase you need another half hour to figure it out. :ROFL:
shushhhhh you little booger!!

[Ash]

oh well it is what it is and somehow I dont think we all will ever agree. =)

So who is hungry? cuse I sure am!

[SKAustin]

NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!! We cant let this thread die!! Come on, Lets debate some more.. We're only up to page 6.

[Honda12]

Fine I think it is a calvus/comp hybrid.;)

[SKAustin]

Fine I think it is a calvus/comp hybrid.;)

No, it's a goldfish. :grinyes:

[Honda12]

A pretty deformed goldfish at that.;)

[SKAustin]

Fine I think it is a calvus/comp hybrid.;)

What would you call that? A. Calvessiceps? or A. Compressivus? :confused:

In all honesty though, if it were from any other fish store, i might actually agree to that. But the place i get my fish label all of their Cichlids by scientific name with their "mixed cichlids" tanks seperate for each type. Their staff is top rate and their operation is A-class. How often does anyone walk into a fish store to buy a fish and get questioned about the Cycle of the tank, how long the tank has been and tankmate, before they even reach for a net? I'm not sure about the rest of the country, but Ive dealt with about a dozen different LFS's and The knowledge passion, and service at this place is by far, not the norm. If you tell them you want to buy a dozen fish for your brand new tank that you just set up last night, they'll suggest to you, a few good starter fish, Explain the nitrification process, and send you on your way with a few good starter fish. And they are not afraid to refuse to sell fish into inappropriate conditions. I will take the 45 minute trip (one way) to this place over the rest of the local shops (most of which are within 10-15 minutes) Even just to purchase Supplies. And it shows with the business. For a LFS in the middle of Nowhere, You're often required to "take a number" at the fish room.

My only gripe: I really wish they were closer.

[Honda12]

I would call it the first one, I wonder if they really have cross bred before? I don't think it would be that hard. Although I think they are fine just how they are.

[SKAustin]

I would assume it's possible as they are so closely related. I'm sure if it's possible, someone has done it. but to be honest, in all my experience and research, i've never heard anything about it.

[M|L]

just let the fish grow.

and time will tell.

[SKAustin]

just let the fish grow.

and time will tell.
I guess that's probably the best course of action. Until otherwise proven wrong, i will continue to refer to them as Comps though. Appreciate the input and efforts from everyone, thanks again.

[Taz2478]

will they grow faster with more water changes? Grammodes gro slow but with 3 wc a week mine grew faster than the one with 1 wc a week, both fed the same.

[cichlid savage]

Is this the same fish? It was sold to me as a Lamprolgus Mustax... but i cant find anything on it:

[M|L]

Lamprologus mustax is a completely different fish LOL.

[SKAustin]

Is this the same fish? It was sold to me as a Lamprolgus Mustax... but i cant find anything on it:
Based on that photo, or what i can see from it anyways, I would guestimate that what you have there is a Compressiceps. It is difficult to tell by that photo, It could very well be a Calvus. It is most certainly not Lamprologus mustax though.

[SKAustin]

OMG......... Get this. All of this debate over if my Compressiceps are Compressiceps, I just found out today that one of my "Calvus" is a Compressiceps LOL. I never really bothered to think about it, but when i was selecting my fish today (yes i bought two more white calvus and two yellow Compressiceps today) I realized that one of my yellow calvus wasnt a calvus. I never noticed in the tank as he is a hider and being the smallest fish in the tank right now, he generally stays out of view. Oh well.

[Super G]

"Calvus means spots" Said the breeder as I was picking out my 30 comps.
Huge price difference too!

[SKAustin]

"Calvus means spots" Said the breeder as I was picking out my 30 comps.
Huge price difference too!

Calvus is derived from the Latin word Calveo meaning "bald" named as such for the lack of scales on its forehead. I think the breeder has spots on his brain.

[fsc46]

I think it's a Comp. Look at the mouth. The angle of the lips also helps tell the story along with the scales on the forehead. A Comps mouth/lips are angled up and down more so than a Calvus.

[SKAustin]

I think it's a Comp. Look at the mouth. The angle of the lips also helps tell the story along with the scales on the forehead. A Comps mouth/lips are angled up and down more so than a Calvus.
:iagree:

fsc46, Great Avatar pic. Love the color, Love the front.

[Taz2478]

thats what I been said LOL

[fsc46]

:iagree:

fsc46, Great Avatar pic. Love the color, Love the front.

Thanks! That one is my Mpimbwe frontosa with a blue background. I didn't realize the photo came out the way it did until the next day.

[llaustin]

Anyone who thinks that the fish in question is a Calvus is a Putz.

[carpediem]

Hard to say, being a juvie, but I tend to agree with Honda. Given it's body shape, especially the shape of the head, it looks like a Calvus to me. A sideview picture might help distinguish a bit more.

Guess I must be a "putz" but it's just my .02

[Super G]

"Calvus means spots" Said the breeder as I was picking out my 30 comps.
Huge price difference too!


The fish in question is not a calvus and they are all considered comps.

[cichlid savage]

I have a fish that looks similar to yours it was sold to me as a lamprologus mustax. Here he is. I am very interested to know what it really is as i can't find anything on him. I also have posteed this pic on a cpl of other websites to no avail.

[Taz2478]

looks like a yellow calvus

[Ash]

looks like a calvus to me..

[Super G]

The black calvus has spots
the orange comp does not.
Reguardless of color, a comp that is a calvus will have spots
can you see the difference?

[Ash]

I see the difference but they still look exactly the same, although I now understand what you are saying as calvus have spots and comps do not, they look exactly the same so it would be pretty easy to get them confused =)

[lalo]

I personally think its a calvus.Possibly white calvus bred with compressicep.But the dots on the side ive only seen on calvus:grinyes:

[SKAustin]

It is not uncommon for a female Compressiceps to have spots when they are small. The key here is that this fish is a juvenile, and the spots are very faint to the naked eye, unlike the bright spots on the Calvus. Besides, my research is complete. The fish is a Compressiceps. Unless Ad Konings himself tells me otherwise.

[efc]

Savage, your fish looks to be a gold compressicep for sure.

The Altolamprologus in question looks to be an Altolamprologus compressicep "sumbu shell", they are a form of shell dwelling alto. They grow to 6cm max and i would say SK that you are the proud owner of a mature female. The vent is thick and protruding thus she is close to breeding age. Good luck with her.

Nick

[llaustin]

:)

[SKAustin]

The Altolamprologus in question looks to be an Altolamprologus compressicep "sumbu shell", they are a form of shell dwelling alto. They grow to 6cm max and i would say SK that you are the proud owner of a mature female. The vent is thick and protruding thus she is close to breeding age. Good luck with her.

Nick
Nick,

That is a most intriguing statement. and it comes at a most interesting time as well. Last night, after the house had quieted and the lights were off, i stopped by the tank and found that both of these fish were sleeping at the shells, on the opposite end of the tank than they normally remain. I will definately give your ID some serious consideration and additional research. Thanks for peeking my curiosity. :thumbsup: If you dont mind my asking, what is your experience with Tang's? Seems to be a rather astute observation for a typical fishkeeper.

[milkyboy]

To me it looks like an Altolamprologus calvus "Chaitika". Look at these two pics...

Juvie
http://cichlid-forum.com/photogallery/images/Alt_calvusW_03.jpg

Subadult
http://cichlid-forum.com/photogallery/images/Alt_calvusW_02.jpg

It looks like something between these two stages of growth. I don't think it's a sumbu. It has spots all over its body whereas the sumbu has none. The sumbus also have a blue tint on their lips which yours lacks. All Altolamprologus will live in shells if they have the chance. Most of them spawn in shells however the Sumbu uses it as its main home but other Altolamps may use rocks etc.

Bruce

[fsc46]

The black calvus has spots
the orange comp does not.
Reguardless of color, a comp that is a calvus will have spots
can you see the difference?

Great photo!!! Good point about the spots, also notice the angle difference on the mouths.

[SKAustin]

looks like a calvus to me..
Every altolamp looks like a calvus to you ash. :D


Alto. compressiceps is characterized by a laterally compressed body, a sloping forehead with a turned-up snout , bold, tiger-like stripes and white to blue spots that decorate the posterior two-thirds of their flanks. The spots are more intense in adult males of the species. Comps are closely related to Altolamprologus calvus. These two differ morphologically in that Comps have shorter jaws and their snout is turned up, whereas the calvus has a long, sloping face. Comps' bars are more distinct and their spots less so, being just the opposite of the calvus. Adult males can attain maximum lengths of six inches, while females max out at around four inches. Once mature, males are also higher-bodied and possess more elongated fins.
Read the article here Altolamprologus compressiceps (http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/a_compressiceps.php)

[SKAustin]

I see the difference but they still look exactly the same.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Hmmmmmmmm? okiedoke. That one is going into my sig. :D

[Tyler]

its a yellow calvus...their alright but i like the black calvus better

[Tyler]

heres the black
http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/Fishindx/Fishpics/alto_calvus-black.jpg
heres another yellow
http://cichlidpress.pair.com/photos/alt-calvus.jpg
heres a white
http://www.tntcichlids.com/New_Pics/white%20calvus%203.jpg