tidal tank

[ukpoduk]

hi all
i've dreamed of a tidal tank, consiting 1 tank with a divider in the middle , one side mud skippers and the other fiddler crabs , and someway of making one side high tide then every 4 hours changing it to high tide in the other side,

do you thing this could be done

[davo]

im not sure how that would be achieved

[concord]

tilt it? tbh it sounds cool but I dont know how

[guppy]

It can be done, two small pumps, or one reversible one, on a timer. Each side will need its own filter system.

[Chad55]

Just take two pumps and put them both on opposite sides with the intake in one side of the tank and output on the other side. Then put the pumps on seperate timers and turn them on and off how you want the tide. Ex. The first pump turns on for 1 minute and raises the water on one side and lowers it on the other. Four hours later the other pump turns on for one minute and pumps water into the low side and makes it the high side and so on.

Chad

[bermuda]

oh that's fun. i wanna see... :)

[Dr Joe]

Just take two pumps and put them both on opposite sides with the intake in one side of the tank and output on the other side. Then put the pumps on seperate timers and turn them on and off how you want the tide. Ex. The first pump turns on for 1 minute and raises the water on one side and lowers it on the other. Four hours later the other pump turns on for one minute and pumps water into the low side and makes it the high side and so on.

Chad

Chad55's got the right idea, and if you don't need to much lift harbor freight has a little pump for 5 bucks on sale.

[guppy]

Those little desk fountain pumps should work, one of these will run both pump schedules
http://www.rewci.com/digitaltimer.html

[Dr Joe]

Those little desk fountain pumps should work, one of these will run both pump schedules
http://www.rewci.com/digitaltimer.html

cheaper timer
http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS/EN_US/diy_main/pg_diy.jsp?CNTTYPE=PROD_META&CNTKEY=misc%2fsearchResults.jsp&BV_SessionID=@@@@1780788284.1150421678@@@@&BV_EngineID=ccfdaddidgjgiglcgelceffdfgidgin.0&MID=9876

stupid link :swear: , anyway it's an INTERMATIC model #DT17C

guppy, how are you having one pump handle both sides? what did I miss?

[CHOMPERS]

Chad55's got the right idea, and if you don't need to much lift harbor freight has a little pump for 5 bucks on sale.
The harbor freight here in Orlando has two sizes of small fountain pumps. The larger one was on sale for ten bucks and the small one was regualarly priced at ten dollars (that is the one that is probably on sale now for $5). The small one was labeled to pump more than the gallonage that I needed. It turned out that it would only pump nineteen inches over the tanks water level. I needed to pump 26 inches. :ROFL: . I kept it though and used it on what I called my guppy tower; a tall narrow hand blown glass umbrella vase that I picked up from Goodwill for five dollars. I used the pump to overflow water into a lower aquarium. I have a coupon for 20% off, so I think I may have to stop in for some more of those just to have them when my brain starts ticking.

[TankBuster]

Actually there is a system like that called a Tidepool aquarium. Page 45 in the Reef Secrets book by Alf Jacob Nilson and Svein A. Fossa. There is also a similar setup called the Carlson Surge device, but it reacts in a faster motion, unlike what you want for the small creatures you will keep.

[CHOMPERS]

Oh, by the way, since the water will tide over the course of four hours, I was thinking of a dosing pump. Anyone know of any low flow solenoid valves? I don't know if irrigation valves will open with that little flow or pressure. Later I will post a diagram of what has been floating around in my head.

[guppy]

cheaper timer
http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS/EN_US/diy_main/pg_diy.jsp?CNTTYPE=PROD_META&CNTKEY=misc%2fsearchResults.jsp&BV_SessionID=@@@@1780788284.1150421678@@@@&BV_EngineID=ccfdaddidgjgiglcgelceffdfgidgin.0&MID=9876

stupid link :swear: , anyway it's an INTERMATIC model #DT17C

guppy, how are you having one pump handle both sides? what did I miss?
There are reverible pumps but what I meant was the timer in that link can perform three fuctions so OFF, Pump #1 ON, and Pump #2 ON. Two small pumps are cheaper than a small reversible one like this 3 gpm one, http://www.pumpbiz.com/products/index.cfm?fuseaction=pump_model_detail&product_id=6650&series_id=490

The three way timer and 2 small pumps is also cheaper than a single pump and a timed diverter valve, and a lot easier to set up.

[guppy]

Oh, by the way, since the water will tide over the course of four hours, I was thinking of a dosing pump. Anyone know of any low flow solenoid valves? I don't know if irrigation valves will open with that little flow or pressure. Later I will post a diagram of what has been floating around in my head.
How big a tank and what % lower at low than high?

How about 2 of these 80 gph at 0' head but only about 28 gph at the height you want, $15.95 each. If 28 gph is still too high just add a T-valve on the tubing on each side to shunt unneeded flow back into the side being pumped from. Cheap and easy.
http://www.bestnest.com/bestnest/RTProduct.asp?SKU=PON-02520

[CHOMPERS]

...one side mud skippers and the other fiddler crabs ...
Please forgive my ignorance, but what are mud skippers? Sounds interesting. Florida has an abundance of fiddler crabs...and if you have an abundance of mud skippers, I am thinking of a trade:grinyes:
do you thing this could be done
1. I never take no for an answer.
2. I love a challenge.
3. You are only limited by what your mind tells you that you can not do (If you tell yourself that you can't, then you already admitted defeat.)

[CHOMPERS]

How big a tank and what % lower at low than high?

Guppy, we are probably talking about less than twenty gallons over the course of four hours. If mud skippers are small fish then we could be talking only a few gallons, maybe five at the most. That is why I was thinking of a dosing pump. The swimming pool industry uses some that can pump caustics and acids at a variable rate. I do not know if they are reversible but they will do the job for a ten gallon tank up to a hundred gallon tank. The price is not going to be pretty though.

Anyone heard of a small three way valve that is motorized or solonoidally operated? The smallest I know of is a two inch ID valve.

[Dr Joe]

The harbor freight here in Orlando has two sizes of small fountain pumps. The larger one was on sale for ten bucks and the small one was regualarly priced at ten dollars (that is the one that is probably on sale now for $5). The small one was labeled to pump more than the gallonage that I needed. It turned out that it would only pump nineteen inches over the tanks water level. I needed to pump 26 inches. :ROFL: . I kept it though and used it on what I called my guppy tower; a tall narrow hand blown glass umbrella vase that I picked up from Goodwill for five dollars. I used the pump to overflow water into a lower aquarium. I have a coupon for 20% off, so I think I may have to stop in for some more of those just to have them when my brain starts ticking.
BEWARE of harbor freight, they have way too many neat things at good prices. Now if they would just carry aquariums :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:

[guppy]

These are mudskippers, they range from 3" to a bit more than 8" depending on species. the pic is from here http://www.pwbelg.clara.net/gambia/page5.html

[Chad55]

Mudskippers can be on land or water. If you could get an adjustable rate pump you could just experiment until you figure out what works. I think this might almost have to be done on a larger scale. You could try an actual tidal POOL. Maybe do one of those kiddie pools and divide it some how. Or another thing I think is really cool would be making a beach in one of those kiddie pools and having a holding tank outside of the pool. Then every four hours pump in and out the water. Your giving ma alot of ideas. This is going to turn out to be a big project. Haha:naughty:

Chad

[guppy]

Solenoid 3 way in stainless 3/8" $99 each.
I was thinking about those little pumps you found that you said didn't have enough head pressure. Mount the pumps in the tank instead of below it and 19" should be plenty.

[Dr Joe]

There are reverible pumps but what I meant was the timer in that link can perform three fuctions so OFF, Pump #1 ON, and Pump #2 ON. Two small pumps are cheaper than a small reversible one like this 3 gpm one, http://www.pumpbiz.com/products/index.cfm?fuseaction=pump_model_detail&product_id=6650&series_id=490

The three way timer and 2 small pumps is also cheaper than a single pump and a timed diverter valve, and a lot easier to set up.

That's what I had hoped I understood, thanks for the reply. Nice pump, but ...expensive.

[Dr Joe]

How big a tank and what % lower at low than high?

How about 2 of these 80 gph at 0' head but only about 28 gph at the height you want, $15.95 each. If 28 gph is still too high just add a T-valve on the tubing on each side to shunt unneeded flow back into the side being pumped from. Cheap and easy.
http://www.bestnest.com/bestnest/RTProduct.asp?SKU=PON-02520

This pump a has built-in adjustable flow rate so no need for a 't' fitting, it has it's own shunt.

Nice little pump, I think I'll order a couple if shipping doesn't double the price. Good find.

[ukpoduk]

Please forgive my ignorance, but what are mud skippers? Sounds interesting. Florida has an abundance of fiddler crabs...and if you have an abundance of mud skippers, I am thinking of a trade:grinyes:


MUD SKIPPERS MEDIUMSZIE FISH THAT LIVE MAINLY ON DAMP LAND, THEY ORIGINAL FROM MUD FLATS AND MANGROVE AREAS, MOST PEOPLE HAVE THEM IN TANK WITH HALF WATER HALF SAND TANK, BUT I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE MORE NATRAUL .

[ukpoduk]

ive thought about it and with a lot of testing you could fo it with just 2 air pumps and some L shaped tubing.
putting the pipe in the water so the right angle joint is on the top, and putting the air feed in the bottom of the pipe your get a water coming out of the top , the bigger the pump the more water you get flowing though,
putting the air pump on for 4 hours with a an over flow at the max hieght you want the water ,

[CHOMPERS]

Solenoid 3 way in stainless 3/8" $99 each.
I was thinking about those little pumps you found that you said didn't have enough head pressure. Mount the pumps in the tank instead of below it and 19" should be plenty.
The three way is nice to know about, but components at that price will make the project on a whole too expensive.

I love the idea of the two tiny pumps. Sand is really porous stuff, so stuff them in panty hose and hide them in the sand. To prevent one side from pumping itself dry, have an overflow hole(s) in the separation bulkhead. Set each pump on a digital timer, and sit back & watch the show. Just bring four hours worth of pop-corn.

Two Harbor Freight mini pumps - ten dollars
Two Home Depot digital timers - twenty dollars
Problem solved for under a hundred bucks - priceless

[davo]

they are the fish on the new guiness advert. or look like this. there are a few spp. of mudskippers, but they are reasonably similar in appearence

[Dr Joe]

ive thought about it and with a lot of testing you could fo it with just 2 air pumps and some L shaped tubing.
putting the pipe in the water so the right angle joint is on the top, and putting the air feed in the bottom of the pipe your get a water coming out of the top , the bigger the pump the more water you get flowing though,
putting the air pump on for 4 hours with a an over flow at the max hieght you want the water ,

Are you speaking of air lift tubes? That's an interesting idea. Might need a rather heavy duty air pump tho. I'm gonna have to try this...interesting.

[ukpoduk]

sort of the same idea has the air powered skimmers, the more bubbles you use the beter it should work , even if it only makes a trickle of water so long as by 4 hours its filled to other side of the tank to high tide it doesnt mater ,. keep us intouch if it works for you

[CHOMPERS]

BEWARE of harbor freight, they have way too many neat things at good prices. Now if they would just carry aquariums :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:

I just got another coupon in my email. I'll be at your place in two hours. Ya ready?

Actually, I was going to go today and shoot for a prototype. I can't resist a cool idea like this one.

[Dr Joe]

I just got another coupon in my email. I'll be at your place in two hours. Ya ready?

Actually, I was going to go today and shoot for a prototype. I can't resist a cool idea like this one.

Is it done yet? Huh...Huh...IS IT DONE YET !?! PIctures !!! HOW ABOUT NOW... IS IT DONE NOW ?!! :ROFL:

Mines almost done, I just need to get a few things ( pvc pipe, a couple of pumps, some air stones, fix a tank, some plexy for a divider, sand, crabs, mud skippers).
I already got the water . :screwy:

[CHOMPERS]

I already got the water . :screwy:
Hey, you are a whole lot closer to the good water than I am. That's not fair.

[CHOMPERS]

Here is what I was thinking of using 3-way valves and irrigation valves.

The high tide would flow excess water through the bulkhead to the low tide side.

[guppy]

I think 2 small pumps, a 3 way timer, and 2 simple directional flap valves would be cheaper, those damn solenoid 3 ways are expensive.

[CHOMPERS]

I think 2 small pumps, a 3 way timer, and 2 simple directional flap valves would be cheaper, those damn solenoid 3 ways are expensive.

I am with you bro. I would never put the money into one if there is a better way of doing it. Btw, the above design isn't a suggestion to build it like that, it is just food for thought. It is what I was thinking about in terms of plumbing options. Even the irrigation valves would be too expensive when five dollare pumps are available.

By the way, I have been looking for a 3-way timer, or zoned timer that is cost effective. Does anyone have one or know of one that is readily available to the general public?

[Dr Joe]

I just got another coupon in my email. I'll be at your place in two hours. Ya ready?

Actually, I was going to go today and shoot for a prototype. I can't resist a cool idea like this one.

WELL ?!

[Chad55]

Yea lets see it.

Chad

[moxxommox]

there was a dude i knew in Australia who did this, it was hooked up to his computer, it had the whole current thing aswell.. he gave up on it because it was too "natural" he had mangrove and mud etc... it stunk, he got tired of it. the end.

[Dr Joe]

I am with you bro. I would never put the money into one if there is a better way of doing it. Btw, the above design isn't a suggestion to build it like that, it is just food for thought. It is what I was thinking about in terms of plumbing options. Even the irrigation valves would be too expensive when five dollare pumps are available.

By the way, I have been looking for a 3-way timer, or zoned timer that is cost effective. Does anyone have one or know of one that is readily available to the general public?

Check the Rainbird ISA 300/400 timer Available from Lowes & HD, about $22. You can use it to control 24v relays and in turn control the world :woot: :woot:

[ukpoduk]

is anyone trying it out ?

[Dr Joe]

Well, the air lift project was a bust...even with max air and saltwater it won't lift enough water to make a difference.

Atleast now I know.

[CHOMPERS]

Well, the air lift project was a bust...even with max air and saltwater it won't lift enough water to make a difference.

Atleast now I know.

I played with the airlift idea too. Just forgot to post the info. I used an old under gravel riser with both a bare air line and with a diffuser. The most that I got was either 1 3/4 or 3/4 inch of lift. I was going to do a cheap setup with just Fiddler Crabs. I can't find native mud skippers or anything like them but I came home with a bunch of Fiddler Crabs a few weeks back. (Turns out that Stone Crabs or Blue Crabs love to eat Fiddler Crabs.) I have the pumps and timers, but the tank and time are not there. I am leaving on a three week trip this coming monday so it isn't going to be me to be the first to build it :cry:

[ukpoduk]

:naughty: oh well looks like it will be two mini pumps then