Minnow Ich? Or breeding rash?

[paul112]

Okay, that minnow i brought home is covered in ich. It had breeding rash on it's head when i got it, but do minnows get it all over their body? It has it all over its fins and body, so i'm guessing ich anyway. Is there a different treatment of ich for native (coldwater) fish?
i really need help anyway. Its a sunday, the petshops are closed, i have no salt or ich treatment. What can i do?
Paul

[davo]

not a lot without meds. just dont get the fish stressed. maybe turn the lights out

[paul112]

Can i not keep dumping the water and replacing it everyday? I could get some water prepared the night before in a bucket, but whats the best way to sterilise a tank against ich? Bear in mind i dont have hydrogen peroxide, but can i use bleach? and what ratio?
Paul

[sandtiger]

What species is it? I would raise the temp and add an airstone for added oxygen. Keep the temp raised and when you can get it go for some salt. The raised temp alone might cure it, as might the salt alone. Use both and ich is pretty easy to get rid of.

[davo]

water changes is a good idea to lower the free swimming pop. of ich. im not sure how cold water fish react to a raise in temp really, but you could try itguppy has a sticky on ich in health and disease section

[paul112]

But i thought raising the temp caused the Ich to quicken it's life cycle? Wouldn't that mean that it would fall off and multiply quicker?
Paul

[sandtiger]

It does speed up the lifecycle but you want that to happen, the sooner the lifecycle is over the sooner the ich dies, that means the fish will have it for a shorter period of time. The salt will kill and ich not on the fish. It is important to know the species so I can tell you how hgh to raise the temp, many species can handle warm temps, at least for short periods of time. Lower oxygen will probably kill the fish sooner than the temp so that is why an airstone is important.

[paul112]

Its just a phoxinus phoxinus.
Paul

[fisher12889]

Put some aquarium salt into the tank for now and see how that helps.

[sandtiger]

Fishbase reports 68 F as the highest temp. this fish can handle so raising the temp is not much of an option. You can still treat with the salt though, it will just take longer to get rid of than it would with the higher temp.

[paul112]

What do you mean 'aquarium salt'?
There is an aquarium tonic salt at my LFS for sterlising tanks, or do you mean marine salt?
Paul

[guppy]

Not marine salt, aquarium salt, it is just non iodised salt and a few trace elements, I think this brand is available in the UK,
Two treatments other than anti-ich meds (such as Rid-ich +, or Ich-Cure, these will work),
are available for cold water fish like phoxinus.
First is a variant on the salt method, just add 2-3 teaspoons of salt per gallon to the tank but do NOT raise the temp. you need to keep treating for at least a month.
the other reqiures 2 bare bottom tanks, you switch the fish daily to the alternate tank and dump the one it came from, scrub it with non-detergent bleach solution (1 part in 6-10), rinse well, and refill. do this daily for a month for cold water species.

[fishyz]

I would move all the fish to a hospital tank for treatment and clean the main tank real good.

[paul112]

Lol, Fishyz, the minnow is by itself in a bare 12 litre tank. I've started the salt treatment and fed her well on bloodworm. I also added a nice strong powerhead for surface aggitation (oxygen purposes) and a nice current. This baby is covered in Ich though, and its all happened in the last 3 days.
heres hoping,
Paul

[fisher12889]

Good luck treating your fish, I saw the pics and its really neat looking!

[paul112]

Well, it survived the night in the salt water. How long do i leave the salt water in for? Am i supposed to do regular water changes aswell, or what?
Paul

[ksiaquatics]

Most species can take higher temperatures than what they prefer for quite a while, and the Phoxinus spp. are no different. The most important thing to remember, as sandtiger has pointed out, is to increase circulation in the tank. It is rarely the heat that gets fish, but the diminished Oxygen in the tank due to the warmer water. If you through some airstones in, this should handle the Oxygen issue. I would raise the temp at least into the higher 70's for a few days. Keep an eye on the fish. If they appear to be unduly stressed move the temp down a bit. Formalin also works extremely well for ich and can be used in conjunction with the higher temps. There's a formulation tht includes methylene blue that is my favorite. Good luck.

Oh yeah, what exactly is spawning rash??

[paul112]

She's gone :(
She just passed away infront of me, one second fine, the next floating, slightly breathing. She stopped shortly afterwards. Well fed, good oxygen supply, the ich just finally got her.
Paul :rip

[sandtiger]

Oh yeah, what exactly is spawning rash??

I think he means breeding tubercles.

Paul, sorry you lost your fish. I lost a goldfish to ich last summer soI know how you feel. Luckly the other two survived but it always sucks loosing a fish.

[guppy]

Sorry paul, wild fish often carry subclinical infections that go nuts in a confined area like a tank. Phoxinus can survive higher temps for a while but it adds more stress to them. The ich parasite is only vulnerable in the mobile stage of it's life, raising the temp just speeds up catching them at that stage unless you go over 86F which prevents most strains from breeding at all, or above 91F which usually kill them., At 86F the life cycle is 3-5 days, at 76F I think it is 10-14 days, at 66F it is a 3-4 weeks. You have to treat longer than a full life cycle by at least 30% to make sure you get them all. You continue your water changes but use salted water each time.

[fisher12889]

Im sorry that your fish died, especially since you watched it happen. I know some people may be thinking "your sad that a fish died?" But for those of us who own fish, we know its not like that. It almost feels like you failed at something sometimes...