View Full Version : Puffers deadly?
butane216
07-12-2005, 4:32 PM
Was reading Tropical Fish Hobbyist this month, in the article about clipping a puffers teeth... it went on to mention if the puffer puffs , it can be a deadly proposition, is it deadly for the fish or the handler? and in that same case, puffers that seem to have a toxin, how in fact is it deadly and get secreted to human, just thru skin contact?
unknownuza13
07-12-2005, 4:36 PM
i was lead to believe it was very harmful to the fish if they puffed up, kind of a last defense system. I thought I read somewhere they can die from the stress of being puffed up. That's why two weeks ago i was feeding my fahaka crayfish and he goes in like usual first bite is a fatal one right to the midsection. as hes chewing it up the crayfish kinda attempting to walk with a dime size chunk missing from him.. puffer goes back in to finish and crayfish catches him under his face... the puffer goes crazy swimming all around faster than i thought they were able.. crayfish holds on and puffer puffs up... crayfish still wouldnt let go.. we had to assist to get him off.... afterwards the puffer seemed a little startled but not stressed at all and he ate one shrimp later that night.... we have it on film.. tell iheartfishies to post it if anyone is interested in seeing the ordeal.. the only thing is she stops video-ing about 1.5 sec after he puffs up cause we were scared for him...
piranha45
07-12-2005, 4:37 PM
the toxin lies in their organs i believe.
puffing up if the puffer is outside of water can kill the puffer.. i suppose this happens when the puffer is netted by its keeper.
unknownuza13
07-12-2005, 4:39 PM
so p45 it is relatively safe for them to puff up if inside the tank? It was quite a site... the little 5" fahaka got huuge
bluedempsey
07-12-2005, 4:55 PM
i had an arguement with rareafishinado :swear:
(he claims it does nothing!!!!)
about making a puffer puff
see puffers are suppose to puff up in water not
air because it is hard for them to expel that air they suck in
can be fatal. i have seen it. they lose they bouyancy. and die
also i had a small green spotted puffer that got eatten by a rtc
long story short, the rtc died :headshake
piranha45
07-12-2005, 5:15 PM
anyone know if fw puffers are poisonous, as well?
bluedempsey
07-12-2005, 5:43 PM
anyone know if fw puffers are poisonous, as well?
i think the green spotted puffers are because a 1 inch one killed a
14 inch rtc that i owned.
my bother had two oscars that triied to eat another green spotted puffer
but they did not die... they were tranquilized for like a day..... they did not move
at all weird....
I was under the impression that the "Tetrodotoxin" poison found in Puffers is not only found in particular organs, but on the skin? Its a layer of a slime-coat substance that is poisonous if ingested. I was told never to handle a puffer than eat with your hands.
VERY Good Article (http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/motm/ttx/ttx.htm) on puffer Tetrodotoxin. It goes in very in depth. Enjoy.
Miles
butane216
07-12-2005, 10:44 PM
Miles, without having loked at that article, I loked online shortly after reading the magazine article in the magazine... and I came across similar knowledge, wasn't sure how factual it was for "freshwater" puffers tho, that's kind of my aim for asking.....
Miles
07-12-2005, 10:56 PM
I remember once reading that Tetrodotoxin is just as poisonous to humans as liquid Cyanide. 1mg is considered lethal if not properly cared for immediately. Read that article :)
bluedempsey
07-13-2005, 1:52 PM
i read that the fugu puffer is the most toxic?
My own marine experience.
All the puffers I've owned or dealt with have puffed under some sort of stress. NO HARM DONE. I've also seen many semi puff after being annoyed. I've seen porcupines puff and kinda lay their spines down different like stretching. I've only seen a couple puff full on when they were stressed and that seems to stress them more.
As far as poison realeased. Never had any ill effects on my tanks. I had a grouper pick on a porcupine and nothing happened. I've seen a huma pick on a dogface and nothing happened.
my .2
Box fish have a simalar toxin that they can release into the water if stressed, but puffers can't release theirs, From what I've read all puffers contain at least a little toxin but amounts and concentrations vary greatly even among members of the same species. The toxin is found mainly in the skin,ovaries,and intestinal tissue but also in the fatty tissues. It kills by creeping parayisis, survivors report that they were aware the whole time. Puffing air can cause problems for puffers, I don't know why.