Arapaima Gigas

[bmxer4ever]

We should start a sticky on Gigas...I'm starting to get a bit of a fascination with them, but pics and info seem to be very rare. Zoodiver? Can you help? I'm hooked and I need help...

[bmxer4ever]

Here's some pic's I found online... feel free to add your own!

[bmxer4ever]

The Legend

Pirarucu was an indian who belonged to the Uaiás tribe that lived around the Lábrean plains in the Southwestern Amazon. He was a brave, but heartless warrior, even though Pindarô, his father and chief of the tribe, was a good man.

Pirarucu was full of vanities, egoism and excessively proud of his power. While his father visited with friendly neighboring tribes, Pirarucu took advantage of his absence to take village people hostage and execute them for any reason. He also criticized the gods.

Tupã, the god of the gods, observed Pirarucu for a long time, until, tired of the man's behavior, he decided to punish Pirarucu. Tupã called Polo and demanded that he spread his most powerful lightening in the whole area. He also called Iururaruaçú, the goddess of torrents, and demanded that she provoke the strongest torrents of rain over Pirarucú, who was fishing along with other indians on the margins of the Tocantins river, not so far from the longhouse.

The fires of Tupã were seen throughout the forest. When Pirarucu saw the wild waters of the river, and heard the voice and felt the hate of Tupã, he just ignored them with a laugh and crazy words. Then, Tupã sent Xandoré, the demon that hates men, who threw lightenings and thunder that filled the air and cut it with sparks. Pirarucu tried to escape, but while he ran among the falling branches and trees, a lightening bolt sent by Xandoré, struck into the heart of the warrior who refused to ask for forgiviness.

All of those who were with Pirarucu ran from the jungle in total fright, while the body of Pirarucu, still alive, was taken to the depths of the Tocantins river and transformed into a giant and dark fish. Pirarucu remained there and for a long time he was the terror of the region.

[bmxer4ever]

If you havn't seen this already, check it out in the articles forum...
(all photos used with permission)

[Redtail_Watcher]

what is your Itenaraire?
what are you going for? what are wanting to do? where are you headed with this idea?

But i didn't think that there was a real legendary story behind it like the Asian dragon arrowana. But i really like that story! (reminds me somthing sort of like, Aladdin.)

[bmxer4ever]

what is your Itenaraire?
what are you going for? what are wanting to do? where are you headed with this idea?

But i didn't think that there was a real legendary story behind it like the Asian dragon arrowana. But i really like that story! (reminds me somthing sort of like, Aladdin.)

Hi Redtail, I think you just answered your own question....

I just wanted to start a thread to bring together as many pics and as much info as possible about Arapaimas. I'm fascinated by them, but so few people have had the opportunity to keep them. That's why it would be a good sticky - a place where other MFKers could go to find out more about these amazing fish.

There wasn't a forum and no-one else seemed to be up for it, so I thought I'd start it myself...and as you said yourself - "I didn't think there was a real legendary story behind it.." You just fulfilled the purpose of this thread - learned somethin interesting about Arapaimas that you didn't know before....

[Delhezi]

HI,
i don´t think that any normal fish holder could take care of an outgrown arapaima

[Zoodiver]

Hey, thanks for your PM. I'll start to add some info tonight when I get off of work. We'll try and dispell rumors and get some accurate info out there for those up to the challenge of keeping these giants correctly. We'll get into legal aquisition, water chemistry, filters, enclosure size, diet, wild and captive breeding, wild population (the direction it's heading) and as many other topics as people want to bring up.

With a little luck, maybe this coming Spring I will be converting a 125,000 Mississippi River tank into a South American tank at the aquarium. I'm going gigas for sure when (if) it happens.

[dougefresh]

HI,
i don´t think that any normal fish holder could take care of an outgrown arapaima

That's the whole point......that's why this website is here .........we are MONSTER fish keepers..............

[Zoodiver]

Let's look at planning this first.

You've decided to buy an arapaima. First and foremost: Do your homework. Obviously, it's one of the biggest things you can buy. They grow quickly. Do not make the mistake of saying "I'll upgrade my tank as it grows." That is one of the most common errors with keeping these thigns. If you purchase a small juv fish, you won't have time to construct a proper size enclosure to house it by the time it reaches at size. Have you system up and running fully cycled PRIOR to even looking for the fish. Your best bet is to have other fish in there. Arapaima will thrive in a well established tank. They don't do well at all in a young sytem. Find out an estimated food/water/electric bill. It will add up fast. Make sure you can afford it after you purchase one. You need to make sure they are LEGAL to keep in your area. Regulations vary greatly. Just because you can get one from a legal supplier doesn't mean the fish was brought in legally or that keeping it where you live is legal. Arapaima fall under CITIES II. Several States also have specific regulations regarding them. As for other countries, I'm sure there are ways to find out, and would be more than happy to assist you with that when the time comes.

Let's talk housing: Think very, very big. I suggest no less than 30,000 gallons for an adult and 50,000 gallons for two or three. Swimming area is the key when designing a pool. Depth doesn't have to be much more than about 6 feet. I wouldn't got any narrower than about 10 feet across at any point in the pool. Corners are bad, so all edges should be rounded. Even round the side walls to the bottom. Doing that will also aide in keeping water moving as well. Substrtate should be a natural color, and fairly dark. Brown tones work best. I like to use a mix of small gravel as well as larger fist-sized stones (I'll get into why in a post about breeding.) Tank decor can be basic, but there needs to be something. I've found arapaima to be territorial during certain seasons, so having objects (like logs and boulders) aide in creating a comfortable area for the fish to live. Lighting should be from above. It's been my experience that arapaima do not like underwater lights at all. The pool should have both light and dark areas during the day. Edges fo the pool should be high. These guys are amazing jumpers, and you should consider that one might jump out of the water.

Questions? Should I go into more depth on these subjects, or move on to filters?

[bmxer4ever]

Thanks for replying Zoodiver. As you may well have guessed, I have absolutely no knowledge of keeping these fish WHATSOEVER..!
That's why I wanted to start this.
I currently have no intentions at all of trying to keep them either....!
Another dimension completely to the kind of fishkeeping I, and I'm sure most others, are used to.
I'm actually typing this while waiting to see if I can get access to Johnptc's Arapaima tank camera!
I have to admit that before I found MFK, I didn't even know that 'pimas existed.... another reason for this thread. I'm sure other people will join us knowing absolutely nothing about them either.
Arapaimag directed me to a thread about owning them, getting everyone to post their experiences of keeping them, but it was an old thread started last year...hence why I hadn't seen it before.
And having no knowledge kept me from looking in the Arowana forum....didn't realise thats where all the 'pima stuff was posted.... that'll be the bony tongue then!
Look forward to seeing what everyone comes up with here.
Thanks guys..

[CalifishFreek]

I've had mine for about 2 years and he is a small 48+ inches. He has grown up in a 450 i have that is 4x6 but now needs a new home bad. They are the coolest fish and "BOb" follows me around my garage. I am able to pet and hand feed him and he knows the difference between my hand food I put in the tank. They are smart fish and if you have the room and understand just how large and expensive he will get, do it. PS I am moving him to a 1000 gallon round holding tank until I get my 2000+ gallon tank done. Bobs a big boy.

[bmxer4ever]

"Questions? Should I go into more depth on these subjects, or move on to filters?"

Go on then....we're waiting...! Gigas must produce a horrendous amount of waste!
So is it one room for the tank and another for the filtration system...?!

[Zoodiver]

Filters:

The first thing to remember is that these are river fish. Enclosures should have a lot of moving water, but you'll also want areas of less flow. With systems the size your talking about for an arapaima, you're going to be looking at at least one good size sand filter, possibly a large carbon (if you are so inclined), a large bio tower (or sand bed if you can accomidate one) and possibly ozone. You'll also need pumps up to 5 or 7 hp, lots of PVC (sch 80 -NOT sch 40), ball valves and check valves, flow rate meters, pressure gauges and a host of other plumbing basics.

**As for ozone, I'd suggest not going there unless you have the training. Large scale ozone units are a quick way to kill yourself. **

Most of the things you'll need are availible as pool filters. From there, it's matching cubic feet to the amount of water you have. Good flow (depending on tank volume) should equate to 100% turn over rate two or three times an hour. You'll want both a surfce skimming suction line off of an overflow box as well as a bottom drawing suction line. Both can feed into a pump which will push water into the filter and back to the pool. If you are using several types of media in various filters, several pumps my be needed. Also, I'd recommend having a single smaller pump running just circulation (straight from and to the pool). this is great for adjusting flow and use in case you need to take a filter off line for servicing.

Most sand filters are round for this size application. Thse work well for saving space and maximizing filter surface area. If you look into an elongated tube style, keep in mind you'll need more water to fluidize the bed completely during a backwash. Elongated beds allow more surface area for water contact. These style are usually used on extremely large systems.

Depending on where you're located, you'll want a heat exchanger as well as a chiller. Some areas, you'll need both to maintain proper temps.

[bmxer4ever]

Thanks again Zoodiver.....can you explain some of that a little more, cos I aint got a plumbing degree...
Because you have worked with this kind of set up before, I know that you are very familiar with the terms you are using, but unfortunately I'm not!
My biggest filter is a Fluval 4 plus!
Can you explain bio towers and sand filters and fluidized beds please (oh..and backwashing?). I think I have a rough idea of what you mean, but I'm really completely out of my depth here!
Any pics and diagrams would be helpful.

Thanks again
bmxer4ever

[Zoodiver]

I'll try for you....

When dealing with larger style media filters (like a sand filter), cleaning them is an entire different task. It's the same idea as anyone is used to....the filter gets dirty, so clean it.
A sand filter is nothing more than an expensive container with (you guessed it) sand. Water comes in the top under pressure from a pump, it's passed over the sand and taken out the bottom. In doing this, any solid waste is removed from the water. As time passes, that solid matter will build up at the top of the sand in the filter. Eventually, it will plug up. So to prevent that, it needs to be cleaned. This is done by forcing water backwards into the filter. Instead of going out the top back to the tank, a valve is selected to direct water to a drain. Running water backwards to wash = backwash. It's pretty easy when you look at it step by step. Media filters like that also work well for carbon. Same backwashing method applies. Things to think about are size and shape. I like round filters for most tanks. However, on extreme tank volumes, the more surface area at the top of the filter the better. This is where elongated (oval shaped) media filters come in. They offer FAR more surface area, hence they don't plug up as quickly. The down side to that is the amount of water needed to completely backwash a longer filter is vastly more. This is because as you are forcing the water back in, the entire bed of sand must "float" or "fluidize" in order to rinse all of the debris out. Imagine taking a plastic cup and filling it half way up with fine sand. Now fill it the rest of the way with water. Imagine putting a straw down thru the water and sand to the bottom. Now blow into the straw to mix the two. It doesn't take much air just to move some of the sand, but to really mix it well, it takes alot.

A bio tower is simply a structure made to allow bacteria to grow. In must smaller tanks, the substrate is enough area to grow bacteria. We make use of that surface area via good flow and undergravel fitlers. In larger tanks, these ideas don't work. The amount of water fowing around the particles of substrate isn't enough to support the amount of bacteria you'll need to offset the bio load of the larger fish. A bio tower can be as simple as a 5 gallon bucket with holes in the bottom, filled with bio-balls and having water pass in the top and out the bottom. They can be as complex as frabricated fiberglass towers with their own pump and piping to circulate tank water into them. Tehsize will depend on size of the tank and number of fish. Bio towers are also a great way to keep O2 levels up in larger systems. Most of the tanks that need these aren't the type you can just toss an airstone on.

I'll work on getting visual aides after I get off of work. Hope this does enough for you for the moment.

[bmxer4ever]

Thank you for that. It all starts to make sense now, cheers for filling in the blanks!
I can see how filter constuction for big tanks can be so challenging; theres so many ways to do it, you could get obsessed with it!

[bmxer4ever]

You know, I was just thinkin - how much do arapaima cost? What size are they generally sold at and where would you get one? Do you have to contact an importer or are they available through the trade? Never thought to ask this before.
Anyone know?

[benzjamin13]

Definately a ]V[onster fish. I've seen a few for sale before (not sure if they're legal here in Cali...probably not though), but I don't have the room to keep them and because I know I can't afford one. I went to Thailand and the mall has a pima pond inside. I believe that they have 5 LARGE pimas in there with a few cichlids as well. They are awsome fish and I would love to keep one, but yeah...

[Zoodiver]

Cost depends on location, size and legality. Obviously, the larger they are the more expensive. I've seen them sell as high as $9,000 for sub adults. I've purchased them for less than $100 with all the paper work. The best way is to get on from a known importer. That way you know the animal is legal. (There is more to being legal than being in an area that allows them.) Most of the time, the ones you see floating around in pet shops are not legal.

Shipping or just getting one is something I should have touched on right away. Obviously, as air breathers, shipping isn't as simple as dropping them in a bag and shipping them Fed Ex. However, it doesn't have to be too involved either. I like large padded boxes, 2/3 filled with water. Enough room to turn around is all that is needed for shipping uder 24 hours.

Young (I mean beery young animals under 10") don't tend to live out their full lives when shipped. Often times they won't go back on food, and will wither away. Young arapaima are heavily dependent on parental care (especially the father). The male secretes a milk like fluid from glands on his head - similar to Discus parents. Sometimes, you'll see young for sale that have been pulled from the nest too soon. These animals are VERY hard to get feeding well.

Over all, I've had the most success shipping 12-14" animals without any problems. There are very few who can transport large (8' plus) animals with much success. You're looking at a full out truck rig, coffin box (or larger), small scale LSS on board and things of that nature. I'd compare it to a shark transport. They are very similar.

I've always been able to get young on live food, then slowly mix in thawed stuff until they are fully eating prepared meals.

[bmxer4ever]

Wow - sounds even more involved than keeping one! That's interesting about the young being taken from the parents too early - didn't realise the father did that for them. What age/size do they become independent?
The more you add to this thread Zoodiver, the more fascinated I become. Thanks for helping me get this moving. Hope everyone else enjoys your input as much as I do.
bmxer4ever

[Zoodiver]

I will say I have limited hands on experience with captive breeding, so I don't have all the answers on that. From what I've seen, parents pair off and nest in fine substrate. Courting is quite extensive and the pair will say in proximity for an extended period. I've seen the fathers guard the nests. I haven't seen the female act that way, but that's not to say they don't as well. The father secretes a 'milk' from pores in his head that the youg depend on. Like I said, it's similar to discus. It's been shown that when young are pulled too soon, they either die right away, or don't do well, and die shortly after.

I don't have an exact answer on size, but it's rare to see one under 8-10" doing well after being shipped. There are some that get lucky. 12" seems to be the best sizeto ship. Its 'large enough that the animal is well established and healthy enough to take the stress of the trip, but still small enough to be managable in a shipping box.

[johnptc]

45609


baby giga is now about 54 inches !!!! 9/20/2006


:headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2

[Redtail_Watcher]

Yall got me intresting how young a A. gigas needs to be in order to make it through life, what do they eat during at a baby age like 6-12inches? because i am on a waiting list for 3 Arapima gigas, i am willing to house it in a really big in indoor pond when i move out. how much does the price range goes around for a A. Gigas? what is the normal size for them? is it 8 feet?

[Redtail_Watcher]

"Questions? Should I go into more depth on these subjects, or move on to filters?"

Go on then....we're waiting...! Gigas must produce a horrendous amount of waste!
So is it one room for the tank and another for the filtration system...?!

for that picture? i think it is worng!! it's worng a cruel to keep a beautiful monster in a tank that small.:nilly: :cry:

[johnptc]

Yall got me intresting how young a A. gigas needs to be in order to make it through life, what do they eat during at a baby age like 6-12inches? because i am on a waiting list for 3 Arapima gigas, i am willing to house it in a really big in indoor pond when i move out. how much does the price range goes around for a A. Gigas? what is the normal size for them? is it 8 feet?

try www.riverwonders.com he usually has pimas avaible............:headbang2 :headbang2

http://www.riverwonders.com/index.php?cPath=21&osCsid=3d0814d90f03451a3023586a645d3646

[johnptc]

for that picture? i think it is worng!! it's worng a cruel to keep a beautiful monster in a tank that small.:nilly: :cry:


i have heard that this practice is common in places like japan where they love monster fish but the folks live in small spaces............:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

[Zoodiver]

Yall got me intresting how young a A. gigas needs to be in order to make it through life, what do they eat during at a baby age like 6-12inches? because i am on a waiting list for 3 Arapima gigas, i am willing to house it in a really big in indoor pond when i move out. how much does the price range goes around for a A. Gigas? what is the normal size for them? is it 8 feet?

Only buy them in the 10-12" range. No smaller, no larger unless you're transporting the animal yourself.

Young will take live food, and can be slowly worked over to prepared things.
How big of a pool do you have for three arapaima? Just a suggestion, it's better to have the end pool up and running prior to buying young. I know people say they'll have time to build the larger pool as they grow, but I have yet to see it happen. The fish die, or they get sold and the large pool doesn't happen. It takes longer to build and establish a large system than it does for a young arapaima to grow. Do not put them into a new system. I highly reccomend putting them into a tank that has been up and running for at least a year with other fish in it.

To answer your other questions: A normal adult size for one is 12 feet. I wouldnt pay more than $100 for a healthy LEGAL juv animal. By legal, I mean make sure they can send you CITES paper work with the fish to prove it came into the States on the up and up.

[Redtail_Watcher]

Only buy them in the 10-12" range. No smaller, no larger unless you're transporting the animal yourself.

Young will take live food, and can be slowly worked over to prepared things.
How big of a pool do you have for three arapaima? Just a suggestion, it's better to have the end pool up and running prior to buying young. I know people say they'll have time to build the larger pool as they grow, but I have yet to see it happen. The fish die, or they get sold and the large pool doesn't happen. It takes longer to build and establish a large system than it does for a young arapaima to grow. Do not put them into a new system. I highly reccomend putting them into a tank that has been up and running for at least a year with other fish in it.

To answer your other questions: A normal adult size for one is 12 feet. I wouldnt pay more than $100 for a healthy LEGAL juv animal. By legal, I mean make sure they can send you CITES paper work with the fish to prove it came into the States on the up and up.

YOur right. I think I will built a tank or pond 8 by12 3feet high do you think that will be okay?

[Redtail_Watcher]

what do you think the minumim size it needs to be for 3 arapima gigas? do they grow fast like an RTC?

[WyldFya]

what do you think the minumim size it needs to be for 3 arapima gigas? do they grow fast like an RTC?
Check out the first page of the thread.

Let's talk housing: Think very, very big. I suggest no less than 30,000 gallons for an adult and 50,000 gallons for two or three. Swimming area is the key when designing a pool. Depth doesn't have to be much more than about 6 feet. I wouldn't got any narrower than about 10 feet across at any point in the pool. Corners are bad, so all edges should be rounded. Even round the side walls to the bottom. Doing that will also aide in keeping water moving as well. Substrtate should be a natural color, and fairly dark. Brown tones work best. I like to use a mix of small gravel as well as larger fist-sized stones (I'll get into why in a post about breeding.) Tank decor can be basic, but there needs to be something. I've found arapaima to be territorial during certain seasons, so having objects (like logs and boulders) aide in creating a comfortable area for the fish to live. Lighting should be from above. It's been my experience that arapaima do not like underwater lights at all. The pool should have both light and dark areas during the day. Edges fo the pool should be high. These guys are amazing jumpers, and you should consider that one might jump out of the water.

[johnptc]

they grow really fast !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Zoodiver]

A figure 8 shaped pool would be nice. Just make it so the animal doesn't have to back up to turn around. It's very hard for them to do. Think in terms off swiming forward and how to take the corners.
At work I've been given the 125,000 gallon tank to care for. I would LOVE to switch it over too S Am fish but, the shape is wrong for arapaima. It's a 14' deep triangle shaped tank. An adult arapaima wouldn't manage well in there without major re-working of the corners......My point is even though the gallons are there, the space isn't right.

[bmxer4ever]

i have heard that this practice is common in places like japan where they love monster fish but the folks live in small spaces............:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

Can't remember where I found the pics of this tank, but I thought it was ridiculous when I saw it. A giant 'pima, a smaller one, arowana and oscars in a tank that size? Absolutely mental.
Cruel is the word - how on earth can that big 'pima be happy? Can't even turn around. Think you're right John - looks like a pic from an oriental site.

I was interested to see what Zoodiver said about 'pimas needing rounded corners in their tanks/ponds. Makes sense for a fish that size. Not all fish have a reverse gear!

Happy to see more people have joined this thread....keep it up. It's starting to fulfill it's purpose!

[Redtail_Watcher]

I decide to hold of on the Arapimas gigas, until i got them a big tank or pond do you think that a 12x12ft pond like the guy Anythingfish, is reasonable?http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29974&page=3&highlight=diy+tank

[Zoodiver]

Size can be looked at in a very simple method. Average length for an arapaima gigas is 10 feet. Some have been up to 15 feet. I've seen 14 feet in person, so it's not out of the question. Now put that length of your adult animal and figure out how it will fit in a tank/pond. Big circles, ovals or figure eight tanks/ponds are the best for them.

[NIN1337]

no one should ever keep an arapaima gigas.

[johnptc]

no one should ever keep an arapaima gigas.

you are right.....we should just let the natives kill them all and never breed them in captivity.................try harder on your next post.:ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:

[DeLgAdO]

you are right.....we should just let the natives kill them all and never breed them in captivity.................try harder on your next post.:ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:

well he is right to some extent

this fish is just to large for the average fish keeper :nilly:

[johnptc]

well he is right to some extent

this fish is just to large for the average fish keeper :nilly:


I agree !!!!!!!!! but a giga doesnt even fit in an average tank he needs a MONSTER tank for sure !!!!!!!!!!:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

[johnptc]

Size can be looked at in a very simple method. Average length for an arapaima gigas is 10 feet. Some have been up to 15 feet. I've seen 14 feet in person, so it's not out of the question. Now put that length of your adult animal and figure out how it will fit in a tank/pond. Big circles, ovals or figure eight tanks/ponds are the best for them.



matt ... what you do consider adequate tank depth for a 12 foot diameter pool for gigas ??

i am working on either az 12 foot round or a 10x12 foot rectangle.........


thanks for you input !! johnptc:popcorn: :popcorn:

[bmxer4ever]

well he is right to some extent

this fish is just to large for the average fish keeper :nilly:

Most people on this site are NOT your "average" fish keeper...! But I get your point.

[johnptc]

Most people on this site are NOT your "average" fish keeper...! But I get your point.

more gigas.......we have started a 5000 gallon giga tank.....hope to have fish in it in 30 days or so..........john:naughty: :naughty: :naughty: :naughty: :naughty:

[bmxer4ever]

more gigas.......we have started a 5000 gallon giga tank.....hope to have fish in it in 30 days or so..........john:naughty: :naughty: :naughty: :naughty: :naughty:

Cool.....pics pics pics !!

[johnptc]

Cool.....pics pics pics !!


lots of pics coming with a full article !!!!!!!!!!!!:headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2

[Zoodiver]

Sweet! Adding more or relocating the current animal to a larger tank?

[johnptc]

Sweet! Adding more or relocating the current animal to a larger tank?


Matt. i appreciate your feedback on all the posts..........i assume you are the most knowlegable 'giga keeper' on the site !! ALTHOUGH i MUST DISAGREE ABOUT THE WETSUIT.........SURELY IN AN 81 DEGREE TANK IT MIGHT MAKE YOU TOO WARM !!!!:D :D :D

THE NEW TANK IS FOR OUR EXISTING GIGA ( 56 INCHES ) AND MAYBE A SOULMATE.

THE CURRENT TANK MAY GO SALTWATER IN THE FUTURE ( THINKING GOUPER ??)

i HAVE ELECTED TO GO WITH A RECTANGLE 10X13X5FT DEEP. I APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENT ABOUT CORNERS ( ROUND) BUT DUE TO SPACE AND VIEWING WINDOWS I WENT THIS ROUTE...I HOPE MY GIGA FORGIVES ME !!

THANKS AGAIN FOR THE HELP.

JOHN

PS HOPING FOR WATER AROUND DEC 10.............

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

[Zoodiver]

Sounds like an awesome upgrade. I can't wait to see it. Sounds like your's will be up and running before my next one will be.

The wetsuit is a much loved thing for me. Our shark exhibit is 74-76 right now...not too bad if you are swimming. But when you are in there for hours on end floating in one place to guard other divers from sharks, a little chilly. I also used to spend a few hours a week in a 48 F tank with a 5mm. Our big pool at Dallas World ran between 80 and 84. We wore wetsuits as protection from the other animals...not so much the water temp.

[bmxer4ever]

Matt. i appreciate your feedback on all the posts..........i assume you are the most knowlegable 'giga keeper' on the site !! ALTHOUGH i MUST DISAGREE ABOUT THE WETSUIT.........SURELY IN AN 81 DEGREE TANK IT MIGHT MAKE YOU TOO WARM !!!!:D :D :D

THE NEW TANK IS FOR OUR EXISTING GIGA ( 56 INCHES ) AND MAYBE A SOULMATE.

THE CURRENT TANK MAY GO SALTWATER IN THE FUTURE ( THINKING GOUPER ??)

i HAVE ELECTED TO GO WITH A RECTANGLE 10X13X5FT DEEP. I APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENT ABOUT CORNERS ( ROUND) BUT DUE TO SPACE AND VIEWING WINDOWS I WENT THIS ROUTE...I HOPE MY GIGA FORGIVES ME !!

THANKS AGAIN FOR THE HELP.

JOHN

PS HOPING FOR WATER AROUND DEC 10.............

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

So you are doubling the size from your current giga tank?
As for the corners, couldn't you radius them internally with concrete to form some sort of curve? Shouldn't be too hard to do - especially with the amount of work you're gonna HAVE to do to get the thing built in the first place?!
I guess you'd only have to put in a 2 foot radius to keep the gigas happy?
What do you think?
If you are going 13 feet wide then that would still leave you with at least an 8 foot space for the viewing window.....

[johnptc]

i will give it some thought........its all block construction...they dont do curves but concrete would.........john

[bmxer4ever]

On one of your earlier posts on this thread you mentioned "wild population (the direction it's heading) ".... do you have any info on this?

I've read that they have breeding farms in the Amazon area for arapaima, but I don't think it was for repopulation of wild stock - just for export.

I've also seen articles that talk about prohibiting the catching (and killing and presumably eating) of smaller pima's, only allowing the catching of ones over a certain size.

[johnptc]

On one of your earlier posts on this thread you mentioned "wild population (the direction it's heading) ".... do you have any info on this?

I've read that they have breeding farms in the Amazon area for arapaima, but I don't think it was for repopulation of wild stock - just for export.

I've also seen articles that talk about prohibiting the catching (and killing and presumably eating) of smaller pima's, only allowing the catching of ones over a certain size.

my info is all second hand

one i heard that they were being breed in peru and germany
two same source said they (?) were trying to repopulate the amazon

sorry i have no hard copy.......but i will see if i can find anything out........

john

[bmxer4ever]

Have a look at this website...

http://www.iwokrama.org/home.htm

then take a look at this press release

http://www.iwokrama.org/news/pressreleases/20010507arapaimasurveys.htm

- it makes fascinating reading!

Very interesting website.

This will be my 300th post on MFK.... yeah! Now if only that VIP Red raffle was THIS month!

[johnptc]

Have a look at this website...

http://www.iwokrama.org/home.htm

then take a look at this press release

http://www.iwokrama.org/news/pressreleases/20010507arapaimasurveys.htm

- it makes fascinating reading!

Very interesting website.

This will be my 300th post on MFK.... yeah! Now if only that VIP Red raffle was THIS month!


great website...thanks
also see http://www.iwokrama.org/forest/animals/arapaima.htm :) :) :) :)

[bmxer4ever]

This bit of info is the most worrying...

"Population in Iwokrama Forest/ Rupununi Wetlands ecosystem is estimated as less than 850 (December 2001)."

That means that there are probably more Arapaima in captivity in north America than the wild population in this region....and that was 5 years ago! (Sounds similar to statistics I heard about the African big cat populations - more reckoned to be in N.A. private collections than in the wild...).

I wonder if there is any more up to date information on this? IS anyone breeding them for repopulation of WILD stock?

[johnptc]

This bit of info is the most worrying...

"Population in Iwokrama Forest/ Rupununi Wetlands ecosystem is estimated as less than 850 (December 2001)."

That means that there are probably more Arapaima in captivity in north America than the wild population in this region....and that was 5 years ago! (Sounds similar to statistics I heard about the African big cat populations - more reckoned to be in N.A. private collections than in the wild...).

I wonder if there is any more up to date information on this? IS anyone breeding them for repopulation of WILD stock?


the good news however is that they are being breed in captivity !!!:) :)

[bmxer4ever]

the good news however is that they are being breed in captivity !!!:) :)

Really? Who's doing that? Got a website address for it? Would love to see this....

[johnptc]

Really? Who's doing that? Got a website address for it? Would love to see this....

i would two........however the fish for sale in the usa are captive bred either in south america or ( germany ??)

i dont have any web info john:confused: :confused:

[bmxer4ever]

Managed to find this, seems to be breeding for food to decrease wild caught demand.

http://pdacrsp.oregonstate.edu/aquanews/fall2002/p13.html

[johnptc]

Managed to find this, seems to be breeding for food to decrease wild caught demand.

http://pdacrsp.oregonstate.edu/aquanews/fall2002/p13.html

any breeding is good breeding !!!:headbang2 :headbang2

[bmxer4ever]

If you scroll down far enough on this page, looks like there would be a bit of breeding going on in this pond too....

http://www.sixthseal.com/2006/02/jongs_crocodile_farm_report.html

[johnptc]

If you scroll down far enough on this page, looks like there would be a bit of breeding going on in this pond too....

http://www.sixthseal.com/2006/02/jongs_crocodile_farm_report.html

looks like a great place to visit:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

[bmxer4ever]

This is a big article, on PDF, but WHAT a lot of info!

http://www.biotrade.org/docs/biotradebrief-arapaimagigas.pdf

It's a market research study on selling, farming etc., but I think answers some of our questions...

[johnptc]

This is a big article, on PDF, but WHAT a lot of info!

http://www.biotrade.org/docs/biotradebrief-arapaimagigas.pdf

It's a market research study on selling, farming etc., but I think answers some of our questions...


keep em coming !!!! hoping to have water in the new tank in two weeks !!!:headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2
:headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2
:headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2
:headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2

[bmxer4ever]

My eyes are tired from so much Googling...! Where are those pics of the new tank you promised?

[johnptc]

My eyes are tired from so much Googling...! Where are those pics of the new tank you promised?

here is a sneak peek.............:screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :grinno: :grinno: :grinno: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy:

[bmxer4ever]

here is a sneak peek.............:screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :grinno: :grinno: :grinno: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy:

So are you going to round out the internal corners or is it too late to change the design? Looks like there would be the space to do it, but, looking at the pic, looks like you've already started sealing the walls....

[bmxer4ever]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're building the new tank directly onto the side of your existing tank, aren't you? Had to take a look at the pics to make sure...
You building new filtration too..? And are you gonna make construction of the new one into an article as well..? So many questions....

[johnptc]

So are you going to round out the internal corners or is it too late to change the design? Looks like there would be the space to do it, but, looking at the pic, looks like you've already started sealing the walls....


I am going to leave it rectangular........very hard to do in block....could be formed in concrete but i am not sure about the amount of work and the loss of volume in the tank.

john:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

[johnptc]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're building the new tank directly onto the side of your existing tank, aren't you? Had to take a look at the pics to make sure...
You building new filtration too..? And are you gonna make construction of the new one into an article as well..? So many questions....

all will be revealed..................yes it sits flush with the end of the existing tank ( which my son wants to go saltwater with)...........the new tank is a complete standalone system not tied to the current tank.....;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

[bmxer4ever]

I am going to leave it rectangular........very hard to do in block....could be formed in concrete but i am not sure about the amount of work and the loss of volume in the tank.

john:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Just had a thought....to give your corners some curve, get a 2-3 foot diameter plastic pipe, the same length as the depth in your tank, quarter it lengthwise, bond into the corners and hey presto - curved, pima' friendly corners. You could hide inlets & outlets behind them too, drill 'em if you had to let water through 'em.... You could seal/paint them with the same stuff as the rest of your interior. Or am i taking this too far....?

[johnptc]

Just had a thought....to give your corners some curve, get a 2-3 foot diameter plastic pipe, the same length as the depth in your tank, quarter it lengthwise, bond into the corners and hey presto - curved, pima' friendly corners. You could hide inlets & outlets behind them too, drill 'em if you had to let water through 'em.... You could seal/paint them with the same stuff as the rest of your interior. Or am i taking this too far....?


i think that would work............i dont know if the fish care.......the current giga doesnt have problems with the corners........but i think matt's suggestions would make an ideal giga tank.

[Zoodiver]

Looks like it's coming along great.

I just put a window in one of my holdings (10' cylinder - 3' deep) last week and did the first test fill last night. It's always nerve twisting isnt' it - wondering if your seal job will hold?? I hate that feeling. So far so good. What did you use to bond your window? I used 795 sil with a row of bolts around the edge into the fiberglass pool side - but mine is a much smaller scale that yours.

[johnptc]

Looks like it's coming along great.

I just put a window in one of my holdings (10' cylinder - 3' deep) last week and did the first test fill last night. It's always nerve twisting isnt' it - wondering if your seal job will hold?? I hate that feeling. So far so good. What did you use to bond your window? I used 795 sil with a row of bolts around the edge into the fiberglass pool side - but mine is a much smaller scale that yours.

someone else asked here is my reply

This is what I did and it worked for me.





I made the tank of concrete block with a large rectangular opening for the ‘window’.



I used 4x4x1/2 inch stainless steel angle ( type 316 for saltwater ) to make a frame for the opening with one of the 4 inch flats to set the window against.



The stainless steel frame was epoxied in place after the cement block was waterproofed with a epoxy sealer called pond armor. http://www.pondarmor.com/



I used cell cast acrylic 2” thick x 120 x 60 inches. It weighs about 750 pounds and was handled with a forklift.



I used no bolts etc to hold it in place…………the weight of the plastic rests on the bottom of the tank on a few small plastic blocks to allow for movement. The pressure of the water will hold the plastic firmly against the sealing surface.





The plastic was placed against the stainless steel frame inside the tank and the opening was marked on the paper protecting the plastic. The plastic sheet in lager than the opening by at least 8 inches in each direction, leaving a minimum of a 4 inch overlap on all sides.



Next the plastic was moved away from the opening. The paper border which covers the sealing area was carefully removed on both sides of the plastic.



The sealing side of the plastic was sanded with 220 grit to roughed the surface for better adhesion.



I also ground clean the sealing surface of the stainless.



Next both surfaces were primed with “dow corning 1205 prime coat” and allowed to dry.



I used “dow corning 832 multi surface adhesive sealant”. I used a very heavy bead ( approx 1x ½ inch) applied all the way around the stainless steel sealing surface. I used and air powered caulking gun…..it would be very hard to apply this much sealant by hand and take way too long.



This is a fast paced event and I had two helpers opening the tubes of 832 ( aprrox 15-20 ) etc. Apply the top last as it can run a little and drip on you. Once the 832 is in place the plastic was slide in final position on the plastic supports. I used large c clamps on the top edge and 2x4 wood elsewhere to put GENTLE pressure on it… do not bend or strain the plastic. The reason for removing the paper from the back side of the plastic is it now allows you to see the 832 flow out into an even seal and not use TOO MUCH clamping force.





Now clean up the excess….



Leave it alone to cure for several weeks. It cures at about 1/8 inch per day so this takes awhile.




PLEASE NOTE THE DOW CORNING DOES NOT RECOMMEND ANY OF THIER PRODUCTS FOR CONTINOUS UNDERWATER USE !!!



THIS WORKED FOR ME BUT TRY IT A YOUR OWN RISK !!!


:screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy:

[Zoodiver]

Nice, thanks.

[johnptc]

Nice, thanks.

you are most welcome....

this is the same procedure i used for the 2400 tank and it has been trouble free so far ( 2 years)..........john:headbang2 :headbang2

[johnptc]

water in and no leaks !!!!!!!!!!!

[Zoodiver]

Sweet!!! That's awesome news.

[johnptc]

Sweet!!! That's awesome news.

any thoughts on moving a giga from one tank to another.....

knock out drops ( tricaine-s / ms 222/ finquel) has been recommended

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

[pophead]

any thoughts on moving a giga from one tank to another.....

knock out drops ( tricaine-s / ms 222/ finquel) has been recommended

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

got any really big fishing nets?
you could build a kind of a stretcher or just get a big board, put the fish on it, and put something over it so it doens't roll off or something.
having more than one man doing it is probably a given.:eek:
just some wanna-be advise from a:newbie:

[johnptc]

got any really big fishing nets?
you could build a kind of a stretcher or just get a big board, put the fish on it, and put something over it so it doens't roll off or something.
having more than one man doing it is probably a given.:eek:
just some wanna-be advise from a:newbie:
yes..........the problem is the damage a fish this big could to do you or to itself !!!!

the net would need to be softer than a landing net for fishing.......

keep the ideas rolling............thanks john

[Zoodiver]

I've already sent the details in PM, but for the rest of the forum, a simple version

I suggested Tricane Methanesulfonate (MS-222) to slow the animal down a little.
I've moved some big arapaima in the past. Some short moves, some longer trips. In the next month or so, we'll be moving a medium sized animal half way across the US. MS-222 isthe best proven drug to work on them. Being obligate air breathers maek thigns a little harder as well.

Let me tell you guys a story to show you why you need to slow these guys up a little.

I was called in to move an adult arapaima (14' long and an easy 350-400 lbs) out of an exhibit and take it to another facility. The animal was by FAR the largest thing in the tank, and have never had a person (diver) in the water with it. Fist thing on the list was to set up a transport tank in the back of a tractor trailor. We have a full filter system running on it, as well as O2 etc..... Next step was to see how it would react to people in the water. We spent a good part of the morning just testing it.....see how close we could swim etc. The fish had been given some drug to slow it down in food prior to us showing up, but it took no effect at all. We injected the animal with ketamine (just aft of the gill cover is the ONLY soft spot on these guys). The first shot missed and bent the needle. Second shot went in. We waited and nothing happened. We dosed a second round at half the volume of the first, and still nothing. Four hits later, it started to slow down. Note: based on weight and amount given, this animal should be barely moving by this point. We finally decided a team should get in the tank and push the animal to one side with a net. We also started draining the pool. Mid afternoon, the pool was about 6' deep. We had eight people in the water - 6 on the net, and 2 still working on the animal. We thought we might be able to muscle it to the edge, and get it in our aquatic cloth stretcher, then out to the truck. We took a chance as it passed close by. My #2 diver got a medium sized net over it's nose. The fish started to take off, so I wrapped my arms around both his arms and the fish's body. The fish then preceded to jump out of the water, OVER the net stretched across the exhibit and the people holding it, then come down on the other side, myself and the other diver attached.

Quick recap: Fish that should be 100% knocked down took two fully decked out divers up out of the water and over a net. THAT is muscle.

Later, it took 17 people to move it after two more rounds of drug doses and the fish started to slow down. We managed to get it to swim into our cloth stretcher on it's own, then lifted it straight up and out, ran outside, and set it down in the holding tank in the back of the transport truck.

So the moral of the story is even though John's is a short move just feet away, it has to be approached with some intelligence. These fish are FAR stronger than they would ever let on.

[johnptc]

wow !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:WHOA: :WHOA: :WHOA: :WHOA: :WHOA: :WHOA: :WHOA: :WHOA: :WHOA: :WHOA: :WHOA: :WHOA: :WHOA: :WHOA: :WHOA: :WHOA: :WHOA: :WHOA: :WHOA: :WHOA: :WHOA:

[Zoodiver]

Congrats on getting it moved without any major issues :cheers:

[johnptc]

i think you hit the nail on the head.......

no major issues !!!!! :headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2 :arapaimag :arapaimag :arapaimag :arapaimag :arapaimag :arapaimag :arapaimag :arapaimag :arapaimag

[fortune]

:headbang2 THAT'S ONE DOPE TANK! BUT IT KINDA LOOKS LIKE IT'S LEAKIN' A LITTLE FROM THE GLASS, DOESN'T IT?

[johnptc]

no leaks only washdown water :headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2 :arapaimag :arapaimag :arapaimag :arapaimag :arapaimag :arapaimag :arapaimag



:headbang2 THAT'S ONE DOPE TANK! BUT IT KINDA LOOKS LIKE IT'S LEAKIN' A LITTLE FROM THE GLASS, DOESN'T IT?

[Eupterus]

I've always wanted to see an arapaima. Closest I've come so far and when I first learned the fish existed was a natural history mesuem. Must be exciting to see one 14 feet long.
Hopefully I'll eventually get to a public aquarium that has one.

PS: I too wonder if any private individual can provide adaquate housing for a 15 foot fish. This seems like enough of a challenge for a public aquarium.

[johnptc]

the fellow in canada ended up with a 50000 gallon tank !!

the 5000 mine is in will become too small and i will either switch to a round pool or relocate to a public aquarium....:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:



I've always wanted to see an arapaima. Closest I've come so far and when I first learned the fish existed was a natural history mesuem. Must be exciting to see one 14 feet long.
Hopefully I'll eventually get to a public aquarium that has one.

PS: I too wonder if any private individual can provide adaquate housing for a 15 foot fish. This seems like enough of a challenge for a public aquarium.

[pophead]

yea in a 50000 gallon tank you can put in just about anything, other than some saltwater sharks, but even lots of those...:drool:

[johnptc]

ISNT THAT THE TRUTH !!!

[Zoodiver]

the fellow in canada ended up with a 50000 gallon tank !!

the 5000 mine is in will become too small and i will either switch to a round pool or relocate to a public aquarium.

I happen to know of one that would take great care of it when the time comes. :D

[PHUCKO]

:headbang2

[johnptc]

I happen to know of one that would take great care of it when the time comes. :D

matt................ stranger things have happened !!!!!:arapaimag :arapaimag :arapaimag :arapaimag :arapaimag :arapaimag :arapaimag

[bmxer4ever]

Anyone wanting to take a look at Johns new Giga tank go to this thread in the Articles forum...
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48640

Good job John, can't wait to see more pics of the tank and it's occupants and learn how you moved the 'Pima.....!

[sdn]

Can Zoodiver or Aquatic Resource comment on the feasability of farming Arapaima Gigas in large ponds? I know this is currently being looked into as a way to preserve the species.

Some issues that come to mind are:

1. Harvesting - how do you go about harvesting such a large fish out of ponds?
2. Breeding - Arapaima are sexually mature at about 5.5 feet. Also, their young are very dependent on the parents. Would it be possible to harvest eggs and sperm and do manual fertilization similar to salmon farming? How would you go about growing Arapaima broodlings?

[sdn]

I should have made that, "anyone can respond". :) i'm sure there's plenty of knowledgable people on the subject. cool forum, btw - nice to be here.

:grinno:

[johnptc]

this is being done commerically.........doesnt seem to be alot of public info that i have been able to find......:arapaimag :arapaimag :arapaimag :arapaimag :arapaimag :arapaimag :turtle:



I should have made that, "anyone can respond". :) i'm sure there's plenty of knowledgable people on the subject. cool forum, btw - nice to be here.

:grinno:

[Zoodiver]

The closest I've gotten them is nest building and courting....but nothing successful. it happened totally at random - it was nothing I did. We introduced an adult female into an established mixed sex group. Two of the larger males started courting right away, and then she split off with the larger. The male formed a nest in the substrate and we watched them for about two weeks swimming along side each other etc....
They are being farm raised in South America, but as far as I know, nobody in the US is even attmepting it anymore.

If you did get a breeding pair (or group of breeders), you must leave the young with the parents. Like you said, they are highly dependant. Somewhat like discuss, the young need the "milk" secreted from glands in the males head. Once they are of some size (I'd suggest 8" or more) then you could look at pulling them. They take well to live food, but I like to switch them to thawed or prepared foods as soon as I can.
Collecting them is more or less the same way other fish are pulled from breeding pools: Nets. The catch (no pun intended) is they stress out much faster than other fish (like cichlids) when beign caught. That combined with being obligate air breathers causes difficulty.
I think it would be great to breed in the US. But we don't have places for them once they grow up. There aren't very many efforts to restock wild populations in South America. Most are farm raised for the markets.

[johnptc]

how big was thier tank ??? john




The closest I've gotten them is nest building and courting....but nothing successful. it happened totally at random - it was nothing I did. We introduced an adult female into an established mixed sex group. Two of the larger males started courting right away, and then she split off with the larger. The male formed a nest in the substrate and we watched them for about two weeks swimming along side each other etc....
They are being farm raised in South America, but as far as I know, nobody in the US is even attmepting it anymore.

If you did get a breeding pair (or group of breeders), you must leave the young with the parents. Like you said, they are highly dependant. Somewhat like discuss, the young need the "milk" secreted from glands in the males head. Once they are of some size (I'd suggest 8" or more) then you could look at pulling them. They take well to live food, but I like to switch them to thawed or prepared foods as soon as I can.
Collecting them is more or less the same way other fish are pulled from breeding pools: Nets. The catch (no pun intended) is they stress out much faster than other fish (like cichlids) when beign caught. That combined with being obligate air breathers causes difficulty.
I think it would be great to breed in the US. But we don't have places for them once they grow up. There aren't very many efforts to restock wild populations in South America. Most are farm raised for the markets.

[Zoodiver]

200,000 gallons

[johnptc]

thanks matt,,,,now i am really depressed :naughty: :naughty:


on a serious note.........what is the filtration on these true monster tanks ???






200,000 gallons

[Zoodiver]

I like AquaClear hang on back, they're so easy to use......

Seriously though, it's all LARGE sand filters for the most part. Some have at least one smaller carbon filter. Alot use ozone to some extent. Most will have some type of large biotower (or waterfall) as well. For mechanical filters, I like Neptune Benson stuff, but that's just me. Systems are powered by anything from 15hp to 50hp pumps.

[johnptc]

i did a double take on the hang on models lol


thanks for the info........i heard that sand filters needs to be flushed often !! but i guess on a MONSTER the amount of water used is in significant !!

thanks


I like AquaClear hang on back, they're so easy to use......

Seriously though, it's all LARGE sand filters for the most part. Some have at least one smaller carbon filter. Alot use ozone to some extent. Most will have some type of large biotower (or waterfall) as well. For mechanical filters, I like Neptune Benson stuff, but that's just me. Systems are powered by anything from 15hp to 50hp pumps.

[Zoodiver]

There are two ways to approach it. the basic idea is get as much media surface area as possible, while still being able to fluidize the media 100% during a backwash (running water backwards thru the filter, but out to a drain instead of into the tank). The idea is that as the water goes from top to bottom, the debris you are filtering out is stacking at the top. After awhile, the junk prevents water from flowing into and out of the filter. So it's time to clean it. Some like to use tank water to backwash - which gives you a water change at the same time. Others like to have an outside water source (like city water) to backwash with. This means you aren't wasting your cycled non chlorine tank water to clean your filter. I like to do both. It allows more frequent filter cleaning without dumping large amounts out of the tank. But when it does come time for a water change, it's easy.

Some of the 'old school' sand filters are or domed. They offer great surface area and fluidize very quickly, making cleaning easier.

As far as how often you backwash, it really depends on bio-load. This is one reason why I always over size my filters and pumps. It just makes it easier to work with down the line. We've got some systems now that need major backwashing every other day. If they don't get done, the pressure builds so high that the seams leak.

[johnptc]

thanks for the added info.........

To prevent leaking seems you could use by pass based on pressure.....i am going to try this on my filter..........1.5 diameter is store bought from aqutic eco .....i would guess your would be on a different scale !!!!








There are two ways to approach it. the basic idea is get as much media surface area as possible, while still being able to fluidize the media 100% during a backwash (running water backwards thru the filter, but out to a drain instead of into the tank). The idea is that as the water goes from top to bottom, the debris you are filtering out is stacking at the top. After awhile, the junk prevents water from flowing into and out of the filter. So it's time to clean it. Some like to use tank water to backwash - which gives you a water change at the same time. Others like to have an outside water source (like city water) to backwash with. This means you aren't wasting your cycled non chlorine tank water to clean your filter. I like to do both. It allows more frequent filter cleaning without dumping large amounts out of the tank. But when it does come time for a water change, it's easy.

Some of the 'old school' sand filters are or domed. They offer great surface area and fluidize very quickly, making cleaning easier.

As far as how often you backwash, it really depends on bio-load. This is one reason why I always over size my filters and pumps. It just makes it easier to work with down the line. We've got some systems now that need major backwashing every other day. If they don't get done, the pressure builds so high that the seams leak.

[Zoodiver]

Size is only relative to the amount of water you move. I've seen 2" line used on HUGE systems that I never would have guessed would move enough water. Of course, on the other hand, I still love the 60" main return line from Georgia's whale shark tank.

[johnptc]

thats just around the corner !!!!!!!!!!!! 3/9/07 !!

[Zoodiver]

It's coming FAST. I'm filling my quarantine and clearing it out as fast as I can. I have a line on an arapaima down South to pick up. I'm working on permitting to transport it in prohibited and restricted states on the way home to MN.

[johnptc]

SOUNDS LIKE A PLAN.A FEW PICS WOULD BE GREAT !!!!:popcorn: :popcorn:


It's coming FAST. I'm filling my quarantine and clearing it out as fast as I can. I have a line on an arapaima down South to pick up. I'm working on permitting to transport it in prohibited and restricted states on the way home to MN.

[Zoodiver]

I'll snap some this weekend for you. I've got another shipment of 'small' stuff coming today. (anything less than 4' is small). Shooting for end of Jan to bring in the arapaima.

[johnptc]

THAT WOULD BE GREAT.LOOKING FORWARD TO THEM....JOHN:headbang2


I'll snap some this weekend for you. I've got another shipment of 'small' stuff coming today. (anything less than 4' is small). Shooting for end of Jan to bring in the arapaima.

[Zoodiver]

Here you go:

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51543

[johnptc]

i will be at the dallas world aq to see gigas this weekend !!:headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2

Here you go:

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51543

[Zoodiver]

Sweet, say 'hi' to them and my old crocs for me. Oh, and check out the bulls sharks. They're probably still mad at me for catching them out in the gulf. Haha

[johnptc]

will do !!!


Sweet, say 'hi' to them and my old crocs for me. Oh, and check out the bulls sharks. They're probably still mad at me for catching them out in the gulf. Haha

[johnptc]

bump

[bmxer4ever]

Saw a pic of your new gigas John....nice! How do they get on with the big one?

[johnptc]

dont know yet..still in separate tanks.........i am worried about the big jardini picking on them.........


Saw a pic of your new gigas John....nice! How do they get on with the big one?

[MistirE]

Thats a huge fish, not just anyone can have one......These things would be gnarly in a really nice outdoor pond set up. Can you imagine a large adult swimming up to you to feed. Must be quite a sight to be seen. :eek:

[HKN]

FOLKS,

I JUST GOT A FEW 6" GIGAS...THEY DONT SEEM TO BE FEEDING WELL...AND RECOMMENDATIONS OR SUGGESTIONS.

TEMP IS HOVERING AROUND 84 BTW.

THANKS,
KIN

[johnptc]

i would change 50% ?? of the water every day for a week or two....
they can be very sensitive at this size and a breeder said that it takes about two weeks to get them settled in with the water changes.


FOLKS,

I JUST GOT A FEW 6" GIGAS...THEY DONT SEEM TO BE FEEDING WELL...AND RECOMMENDATIONS OR SUGGESTIONS.

TEMP IS HOVERING AROUND 84 BTW.

THANKS,
KIN

[Zoodiver]

What were they eating prior to you buying them? How far were they shipped?
Young do very well on small feeders (live). I'd suggest a formalin dip or something to 'clean' them prior to being fed out. Slowly, you can work them to prepared foods.

How about other tanks specs like decor? Lighting? pH? Tank mates?

[HKN]

no clue on length of shipment...

had rosies with them in a 40 gal nare tank...no decor, no bottom substrate...again all bare tank.

i noticed that they were feeding a little on blood worms...going to go with that...

thanks all

[johnptc]

pics please.............

also please lets us know how they do !!!!!

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:



no clue on length of shipment...

had rosies with them in a 40 gal nare tank...no decor, no bottom substrate...again all bare tank.

i noticed that they were feeding a little on blood worms...going to go with that...

thanks all

[Zoodiver]

How long are the fish? 40 is too small. I'd start them out in nothing less than a 75 - and even that is pushing it.

They need a lot of swimming room when they are young. One of the most frequent long term health issues this species faces (as adults) is poor development due to metabolism. That metabolism is establsihed at a very young age. If they don't burn the calories, they won't eat. This drastically slows the growth rate at a time when they need to be growing rather quickly.

[HKN]

POINT TAKEN...THANKS FOR THE INFO

[johnptc]

how about the water changes....that info came from a trusted source.....

?????

how are they going ????

[rockinthe40ounce]

anyone have any pictures of huge ones in a public aquarium (IE 10ft+)

[HKN]

THEY ARE DOING OK...PICKING AT BLOOD WORMS...SWIMMING ACTIVELY...I'LL LET EVERYONE KNOW IF THINGS CHANGE AND THANKS AGAIN FOR ALL THE ADVICE....

I DID A 20% WATER CHANGE...AND THINGS ARE THE SAME.

[Zoodiver]

anyone have any pictures of huge ones in a public aquarium (IE 10ft+)


Check this thread. And I am thinking there are was another thread about them as well. I've posted pics of the ones I've kept before on here.

[johnptc]

that is great............... keep us posted !!!:headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2


THEY ARE DOING OK...PICKING AT BLOOD WORMS...SWIMMING ACTIVELY...I'LL LET EVERYONE KNOW IF THINGS CHANGE AND THANKS AGAIN FOR ALL THE ADVICE....

I DID A 20% WATER CHANGE...AND THINGS ARE THE SAME.

[johnptc]

ops

[Zoodiver]

Hopefully next weekend I can post pics of my new gigas :naughty:

[johnptc]

Hopefully next weekend I can post pics of my new gigas :naughty:

cant wait !!!!!!!!!!

[koff]

were can i buy one of these fishes.......

[BIGgourami]

if i were (imaginarally, in made-up-fantasy land) build like a n inground pool but out of water like an above ground pond,and put a window on one side what size should it be?
is 15x10 cool?

and yeah where the hell do you get these things?????

[johnptc]

if i were (imaginarally, in made-up-fantasy land) build like a n inground pool but out of water like an above ground pond,and put a window on one side what size should it be?
is 15x10 cool?

and yeah where the hell do you get these things?????


IT WOULD BE OK FOR A FEW YEARS....GIGAS WILL OUT GROW IT....BIGGER IS BETTER 21 FOOT DIAMETER WOULD BE MUCH BETTER

TRY RIVERS WONDERS ONLINE

[johnptc]

were can i buy one of these fishes.......

http://www.riverwonders.com/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=86&osCsid=a0405454b3965480f9eec3155f07777e

[Zoodiver]

For a full sized adult, think along the lines of 30-50 THOUSAND gallons.
River Wonders has some good ones. Southland carries them sometimes, but their customer service has gone down hill this past year.

[BIGgourami]

$120!
holy %#@$ (%#@$) &#(!$) that's unbelievable!!!!!!!

[johnptc]

$120!
holy %#@$ (%#@$) &#(!$) that's unbelievable!!!!!!!

he is a direct importer...........!!!!

[bmxer4ever]

Glad to see so many new faces on this thread. The experience and information that John and Matt have shared about keeping these amazing fish was the very reason I started it in the first place. Hope you're all enjoying it as much as I am. Keep up the good work guys, and can't wait to see more pics and info on your new 'Gigas...

[Taboojen]

I saw two baby Arapaima today in an OC LFS. They are selling them for $68 each, w/ Permit. Pretty little things. Too bad they get over 10 ft. Think they were about 2-3". I dunno if that is the going price, but that was what it was labeled as.

[johnptc]

I saw two baby Arapaima today in an OC LFS. They are selling them for $68 each, w/ Permit. Pretty little things. Too bad they get over 10 ft. Think they were about 2-3". I dunno if that is the going price, but that was what it was labeled as.


which store ???

[Taboojen]

I believe it was Imperial Fish & Pets- in Brea. A few blocks from the Brea mall, on Imperial Hwy.



which store ???

[bmxer4ever]

I saw two baby Arapaima today in an OC LFS. They are selling them for $68 each, w/ Permit. Pretty little things. Too bad they get over 10 ft. Think they were about 2-3". I dunno if that is the going price, but that was what it was labeled as.

2-3"? That sounds awfully small for baby Gigas. As has been stated on this thread, they really shouldn't be separated from their parents 'til they are about 8"....do you know if they were feeding?

[Taboojen]

2-3"? That sounds awfully small for baby Gigas. As has been stated on this thread, they really shouldn't be separated from their parents 'til they are about 8"....do you know if they were feeding?

Yeah.. they were pretty tiny. I'm not sure what they were feeding them, as unfortunately I didnt get a chance to ask. I just noticed them because the tank had red and green signs labeld Arapaima, and w/ CITES Permit, so it peaked my interest. I've only seen pictures of big ones, but first time seeing little ones. I can just imagine the hefty food bill when those guys grow up. eek. I just hope they dont sell them to someone with a 20 gal tank.

[Aussienative]

i found one for sale for the first time today here in australia, its 2" long and $1300!

$120 is crazy, no wonder so many fish are miss treated in the US, their soooo freakin cheap!

[Zoodiver]

Four footer!

After several months of permit application and a LONG trip to the other side of the US to get it, he's in his new home.

[Zoodiver]

Oh, and a few shots of the GA Aquariums arapaima (since I stopped by on the way).

[johnptc]

going down the stairs..........most impressive.glad he made it.
sorry you got soaked :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:


cheers john

[Zoodiver]

Haha, getting soaked is half the fun! I took that thing Steve Irwin style....jumped the fella! Maybe someday I can be known for that.:headbang2

[blacktip]

Hmmm......let's see....Matt, the Arapaima Hunter...that has a nice ring to it...

Anyways, my local LFS has babies that are 4-5" for $100 with permits. There were at least 3 or 4 that were obviously eating live blackworms according to the owners. I was soooooooooo tempted. My kids literally had to drag me out of the store making fun of me all the while as I muttered "but they're so cute. who cares if they would outgrow my 200 in less than a year, they're so cute". I also saw two others at another LFS that were slightly larger for $80 although I'm not sure those two were eating.

Anybody think I should buy a few of these and raise them up for John or Matt???

Anyone know how flexible these guys are compared to arowanas? The little babies looked very flexible and agile, but I've always had the impression that larger ones would need a larger turning radius than a similar sized arowana? How long could one of these guys be kept in a 240?

[johnptc]

they are like a 2x4 compared to aro's............

thanks for the nice thought............although even the 5000 gal is too small for an adult !!!!

john

ps what lfs has gigas ???:naughty:


Hmmm......let's see....Matt, the Arapaima Hunter...that has a nice ring to it...

Anyways, my local LFS has babies that are 4-5" for $100 with permits. There were at least 3 or 4 that were obviously eating live blackworms according to the owners. I was soooooooooo tempted. My kids literally had to drag me out of the store making fun of me all the while as I muttered "but they're so cute. who cares if they would outgrow my 200 in less than a year, they're so cute". I also saw two others at another LFS that were slightly larger for $80 although I'm not sure those two were eating.

Anybody think I should buy a few of these and raise them up for John or Matt???

Anyone know how flexible these guys are compared to arowanas? The little babies looked very flexible and agile, but I've always had the impression that larger ones would need a larger turning radius than a similar sized arowana? How long could one of these guys be kept in a 240?

[johnptc]

How long could one of these guys be kept in a 240?

overall ours has grown two inches a month for the last 24 months
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

[WeeNe858]

so you have to have papers to sell and buy arapaimas?

[blacktip]

they are like a 2x4 compared to aro's............

Thanks. That's what I thought. So 18"-20" would probably be the max length I could keep in my 24" wide tank.

ps what lfs has gigas ???:naughty:

Theresa's Pets in Simi Valley has about a dozen.
The others I saw in a store on Van Nuys Blvd. Can't remember the name of it though.

[Zoodiver]

so you have to have papers to sell and buy arapaimas?

They are CITIES protected, so you have to prove they were shipped over international borders legally. That sheet must stay with the fish for it's lifetime. A lot of states also prohibit them, so you have to make sure you're in good with those laws as well. All arapaima are shipped into the US. Nobody has breed them in the States........ yet. :naughty:

As for how long one would live in a 240....
The four footer we got was brought into the US as a hatchling in '05 (according to the previous owner - and from my experience with them, it's close to accurate). Hope that gives you an idea of how fast they grow. They need a very large turning space when compared to how tight an arowana can turn.

One of the biggest issues for keeping them is small tank size while they are young. These things grow very fast, and confinment at a young age will lead to one of two problems: heart defect or a liver issue. Their metabolism is very high in order to grow fast when young. They need a lot of food and a lot of swimming space to burn that food off. I'd start with something in the 750 gallon range for new hatchlings.

[blacktip]

Thanks for all of the info Matt. I guess I owe my kids some ice cream for stopping me from making a purchase I new I would regret later...

[bmxer4ever]

Oh, and a few shots of the GA Aquariums arapaima (since I stopped by on the way).

What a beautiful set up they have....any more pics of the same? - looks amazing. How come those little fish don't become 'Pima food...?? And congrats on your new arrival...any pics of him in his new home?

[Taboojen]

In the past few years, I've never seen any of these guys at the LFS. However, in the last two weeks, I've seen about 4 of these guys in each of the 5-6 LFS around this area. Is there a reason the all these stores suddenly have a bunch.

[johnptc]

In the past few years, I've never seen any of these guys at the LFS. However, in the last two weeks, I've seen about 4 of these guys in each of the 5-6 LFS around this area. Is there a reason the all these stores suddenly have a bunch.

i know of at least one la area wholesaler who brought in 500.

[Zoodiver]

What a beautiful set up they have....any more pics of the same? - looks amazing. How come those little fish don't become 'Pima food...?? And congrats on your new arrival...any pics of him in his new home?

I'll see what else I have. Their tank is pretty bare.

The small fish aren't food because they have a healthy gigas who knows where his food comes from. A lot of the larger arapaima will only take prepared foods (once taught to do so). It works much better than offering live, not to mention it's safer for the long term healthier in the long run if you don't have to toss in nasty feeder fish all the time.

I don't have any good pics of the new guy in the tank yet. It's been busy at work lately. Keep an eye on the Amazon thread in the Picture forum, too.

[Taboojen]

i know of at least one la area wholesaler who brought in 500.

500? wow. I wonder where they all ended up. I saw two 7-8" ones today. They were beautiful. Yeah.. too bad my 210 gallon tank won't do much for them.

[Zoodiver]

My new baby. Not the best pic - sorry. I'll try for better later. This was taken last week right after we tossed him into the 3,000 gallon holding tank.

[fortune]

200 gallon fishtank weighs _____ lbs.:confused:

[johnptc]

200 gallon fishtank weighs _____ lbs.:confused:

water is 1600 lbs + rock gravel

[BOREEK]

I HAVE 2 6" ARAPAIMA CAN ANY ONE TELL ME IF THEY WELL DEVLOPE THAT PRETTY ORANGE COLORATION.

[johnptc]

I HAVE 2 6" ARAPAIMA CAN ANY ONE TELL ME IF THEY WELL DEVLOPE THAT PRETTY ORANGE COLORATION.


YES THEY SHOULD :) :headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2

[Zoodiver]

It's two fold. First it needs to have the genes to show the color. If you are lucky and it has the good genetic background, then the best way to bring out the color is a good varied diet.

[bmxer4ever]

So have you opened yet? Is the 'Pima in? Did the musky get in the tank again...?!

[bmxer4ever]

Just looking at the webcam...seems to be set up deep in Pacu territory! Looks like a lot of fish in there....gonna watch for a bit longer - see if anything interesting swims by! Good work dude!

[Zoodiver]

Keep an eye on the thread in the pics section about the Amazon. Arapaima goes in at the end of this month. There aren't as many pacu as other things. We have 2 blacks, 1 red belly and a bunch of piractus right now. We picked up 5 more small red belly from Mystic Aquarium (in holding) as well as 5 more big blacks from Omaha Zoo (in holding).

Arapaima is doing awesome. He's eating from my hand and is always interested in what is going on outside his tank window.

[bmxer4ever]

I Googled "Musky" and I got this..... surely this little fella couldn't have eaten your Silver Dollars...??!!

[reziztor]

I'm wondering if i put some breeding pairs in my own lake, could I keep ducks/geese in the same body of water?

[Zoodiver]

First, the trick would be to get animals of breeding size, then figure out how to sex them. After that, breeding them isn't as easy as it sounds.

As far as water fowl, even with just one arapaima in there, the birds would become food quickly.

[Anythingfish]

This is a photo my Arapaima which arrived February 13, 2005 in a bag from a LFS at 3 inches.
In this picture August 5 2006, the Arapaima is 36 inches at 19 months.

http://www.anythingfish.com/teds_posted_fish_photos/Release Arapaima 9619.jpg

This is my temporary 3500-gallon outdoor aquarium, which contains a 40 fish assortment.

http://www.anythingfish.com/teds_posted_fish_photos/Pacu 3500 Tank 9796.jpg

Arapaima in 2400-gallon outdoor aquarium, April 2006.
The color began to show after one year.
http://www.anythingfish.com/teds_posted_fish_photos/Arapaima 1400.jpg

These fish will eat 10 pounds of Bar-S hot dogs in a 10-minute feeding session.
http://www.anythingfish.com/teds_posted_fish_photos/Feeding Time in 2400-1421.jpg

Arapaima at 20 months in the fall of 2006, He is very friendly and curious and can be scratched under his chin.
When I am wading in the tank, the Arapaima will follow me around waiting for a hot dog.
http://www.anythingfish.com/teds_posted_fish_photos/Arapaima in 3500 Tank 116.jpg

This Pacu weighed 45 pounds in August 2006.
http://www.anythingfish.com/teds_posted_fish_photos/Pacu 129.jpg

I parked my Arapaima in Todd’s 2500-gallon concrete tank to be fattened up.
Todd goes to the fish market daily for fresh shrimp for his Sting Rays and as some of you know, the Arapaima is a very aggressive feeder.
I got 20 pounds of liver from a butcher the other day and the Arapaima grabbed the first 7-8 pounds before the pacu or catfish could get to it.
When we tried to net the Arapaima out of Todd’s tank, he was very difficult to catch.
He used every trick known to fish keepers to avoid capture.
We used two 30” diameter rubber web “catch-and-release” type nets.
http://www.anythingfish.com/teds_posted_fish_photos/Netting Arapaima1280.jpg

http://www.anythingfish.com/teds_posted_fish_photos/Netting Arapaima1282.jpg

http://www.anythingfish.com/teds_posted_fish_photos/Netting Arapaima1284.jpg

http://www.anythingfish.com/teds_posted_fish_photos/Netting Arapaima age 14 months 1287.jpg

This is a photo of my four new Arapaima, which just arrived via FedEx priority from:
Brian at:
Ocean Blue, Marine/Tropical Fish
622 East Katella Ave.
Orange, CA 92867

714-532-4528
714-280-4789
info@oceanblueca.com

The fish were very well packaged in multiple inverted bags. The water in the shipping bag was pristine.

The 5” - 6” fish began eating within a few hours and eat constantly, mostly earthworms.

http://www.anythingfish.com/teds_posted_fish_photos/Arapaima 4 at 6 in 2907.jpg

http://www.anythingfish.com/teds_posted_fish_photos/Arapaima 4 at 6 in 2908.jpg

http://www.anythingfish.com/teds_posted_fish_photos/Arapaima 4 days after FedEx shipping 2952.jpg

Arapaima in 3500 outdoor aquarium in August 2006.
http://www.anythingfish.com/teds_posted_fish_photos/Arapaima in 3500 49.jpg

[johnptc]

thanks for sharing !!!!!
it seems approx 2 inch a month is typical growth for well cared for gigas.........ours put on almost 48 inches in 24 months......

what is the long term plan for them ????

[Anythingfish]

what is the long term plan for them????

After reading all the great information presented in this Monster Fish Keepers forum/Arapaima, I thought I would quickly get started on my 8,000 gallon outdoor Aquarium. It will be made of ¾” CDX plywood painted with Epoxy.

I am considering using "Coat-It" Marine Goop epoxy made by Eclectic. Anyone have experience using the"Fix-It" epoxy product as an aquarium coating?

The tank measures 16 feet by 12 feet by 6 feet high, picture of the foundation below.

I presently use a 4.4 cubic foot bead filter on my 3,500-gallon tank, which gives me reasonable water clarity (4-6 feet). I was thinking of adding a bag filter with the new tank and switching to my 9 cubic foot bead pond filter. The water flow in the 3,500 is about 5,200 GPH, which is a minimum for any clarity. I must backwash every other day or visibility drops quickly.

I am planning for a cell cast Acrylic window 4 feet by 8 feet by 1-1/2” thick however the window JohnPTC used was 5 feet by 10 feet by 2” thick. That might be worth the extra investment. Anyone know of good deals on cell cast Acrylic?

AI would appreciate hearing from anyone with comments or suggestions or questions.

http://www.anythingfish.com/teds_posted_fish_photos/Outdoor 8000 gallon Aquarium Foundation 3183.jpg

[johnptc]

I am considering using "Coat-It" Marine Goop epoxy made by Eclectic. Anyone have experience using the"Fix-It" epoxy product as an aquarium coating?

1) make sure the coating in non-toxic eg approved for drinking water storage or see pond shield coating

2) instead of bags ( i have 9) consider the hayward cartridge filters.... i have three of the 525 sq ft....they are great.......the problem i have with the bags is the need changing about every 4 or 5 days........i am running 3 banks of three ( 100,25,10 micron).

the big haywards go over four weeks before changing....

did you recieve my direct email ???

john

[Anythingfish]

Thanks for the info John and yes, I got your email. I have talked with those people and they are researching my 10' by 5' by 2" request.

I have used cartridge filters (Ocean Clear 25 micron, 40 square foot each) in the past, six in parallel and they needed cleaning every few days or the pressure built up and the flow rate dropped. They were a mess to clean with the garden hose taking more than an hour twice a week. If I let them go two weeks they were sometimes caked nearly solid and the devil to clean. I always had six clean and dry cartridges ready to go so the system was down only a short time.

Aquatic Eco Systems told me that the bag filters were the way to go, clean water and low maintenance. WHAT AM I TO DO?

What is the model number and flow rate for the Hayward cartridge filter and how do you clean them?

I am researching the “Coat-It” product from Eclectic, it says “Animal Troughs”, is that fish safe? I hope to find out soon.

http://www.anythingfish.com/teds_posted_fish_photos/coat-it.jpg

[1ra8der]

HERE'S A PIC OF MY LIL PIMA....

[johnptc]

Thanks for the info John and yes, I got your email. I have talked with those people and they are researching my 10' by 5' by 2" request.

I have used cartridge filters (Ocean Clear 25 micron, 40 square foot each) in the past, six in parallel and they needed cleaning every few days or the pressure built up and the flow rate dropped. They were a mess to clean with the garden hose taking more than an hour twice a week. If I let them go two weeks they were sometimes caked nearly solid and the devil to clean. I always had six clean and dry cartridges ready to go so the system was down only a short time.

Aquatic Eco Systems told me that the bag filters were the way to go, clean water and low maintenance. WHAT AM I TO DO?

What is the model number and flow rate for the Hayward cartridge filter and how do you clean them?

I am researching the “Coat-It” product from Eclectic, it says “Animal Troughs”, is that fish safe? I hope to find out soon.



i got mine from them....i would NOT do bags again !!!


i think its a hayward c5025.... 525 sq ft.....cartridge fiter

they are great...... i run approx 100-150 gpm thru each one.

for both the bags and cartridges i soak 'em in a trash can with pool bleach ( strong) and water then hose them off and sun dry....

i would not hesitate to buy more hayward's at about $750 each online from a discount pool supply .........each bag is only 2 sq ft and i recall they were almost $300 each for nine of them $2500 and 18 sq ft....i would not do that again.....in fact if you want bags filters i will sell you mine !!!!!:D :D :D

epoxy sounds ok....

john

ps C5025
The Hayward SwimClear™ large capacity cartridge filter series offers increased filtration area for a bigger, better clean. Utilizing a cluster of four reusable cartridge elements, SwimClear filters offer a choice of 225, 325, 425 or 525 square feet of heavy-duty dirt-holding capacity for extra-long cleaning cycles, up to an entire season without cleaning! With filter tanks constructed of improved PermaGlass XL™ material, SwimClear filters will provide years of trouble-free operation and crystal clear, sparkling water-all season long.

[Anythingfish]

Thanks John, as always a lot of good information to think about. Progress reports on my plywood 8,000 gallon aquarium will get posted in this forum for a while.

[bmxer4ever]

Wow, I'm too busy to look at MFK for a couple of weeks, and when I do, all hell has broken loose in this thread! Soooooo glad I started this, everyone has contributed so much to it and given everyone else SUCH a lot of information. Thanks to you all and I guess all the other MFK'ers have enjoyed reading it as much as I have. Keep up the good work guys and I can't wait to see the 8,000 gallon outdoor aquarium....!

[johnptc]

HERE'S A PIC OF MY LIL PIMA....


lil' pima looking great :headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2

[johnptc]

Thanks for the info John and yes, I got your email. I have talked with those people and they are researching my 10' by 5' by 2" request.

I have used cartridge filters (Ocean Clear 25 micron, 40 square foot each) in the past, six in parallel and they needed cleaning every few days or the pressure built up and the flow rate dropped. They were a mess to clean with the garden hose taking more than an hour twice a week. If I let them go two weeks they were sometimes caked nearly solid and the devil to clean. I always had six clean and dry cartridges ready to go so the system was down only a short time.

Aquatic Eco Systems told me that the bag filters were the way to go, clean water and low maintenance. WHAT AM I TO DO?

What is the model number and flow rate for the Hayward cartridge filter and how do you clean them?

I am researching the “Coat-It” product from Eclectic, it says “Animal Troughs”, is that fish safe? I hope to find out soon.



pima filters

[Anythingfish]

March 30, 2007
Epoxy Update
I just talked with the “Coat-It” (Marine Goop) manufacturer “Eclectic” and they report this epoxy is NOT FDA approved for potable water, animals or fish. I will be looking at another product to coat my 600 square foot outdoor plywood aquarium. I was looking for an epoxy product, which I could purchase locally which would allow me to pick up additional resin as needed. If I bring in perhaps 20 gallons, from Florida, I may come up short and will have to stop and wait for more or I will have excess epoxy cans.

http://www.anythingfish.com/teds_posted_fish_photos/coat-it.jpg

[johnptc]

March 30, 2007
Epoxy Update
I just talked with the “Coat-It” (Marine Goop) manufacturer “Eclectic” and they report this epoxy is NOT FDA approved for potable water, animals or fish. I will be looking at another product to coat my 600 square foot outdoor plywood aquarium. I was looking for an epoxy product, which I could purchase locally which would allow me to pick up additional resin as needed. If I bring in perhaps 20 gallons, from Florida, I may come up short and will have to stop and wait for more or I will have excess epoxy cans.



try http://www.pondarmor.com/ online or might have a dealer in the area or might be able to over order and return the un opened.....check with butch

[Anythingfish]

Wow, I'm too busy to look at MFK for a couple of weeks, and when I do, all hell has broken loose in this thread! Soooooo glad I started this, everyone has contributed so much to it and given everyone else SUCH a lot of information. Thanks to you all and I guess all the other MFK'ers have enjoyed reading it as much as I have. Keep up the good work guys and I can't wait to see the 8,000 gallon outdoor aquarium....!

bmxer4ever: You did a great job getting this thread started and just as important, you kept it going by asking numerous questions valuable to us monster keepers. Thank you.

[Zoodiver]

I'll back John's endorsement of the Hayward products. I use their products in a lot of my plumbing appilcations - and have no issues what so ever.

Also might want to consider a large sand filter to clear up a majority of the particulates in the water. The fine micron cartridges work well for really polishing it up, but a sand filter will take a lot of the added cleaning work out of the picture for you.

Side note: I hope to move mine out in the next week or so. We've been too busy to move it, and I don't want to cut corners.

[Anythingfish]

Also might want to consider a large sand filter to clear up a majority of the particulates in the water. The fine micron cartridges work well for really polishing it up, but a sand filter will take a lot of the added cleaning work out of the picture for you.

Zoodiver: Great information and yes I have been thinking about a sand filter. Aquatic Eco systems suggest I not go there as they clog very quickly with fish waste and are more suitable for swimming pools. Sand filters require a heavy-duty pump (translate, large horsepower pumps cost a lot to operate). I can manage frequent back washing but is that sufficient or must I replace the sand every few months when it reaches the point where backwashing will no longer purge the organic waste buildup?

I have used six of the 40 sq ft, 25-micron Ocean Clear cartridge filters in parallel with some success but they were constantly in need of cleaning. The flow rate started at 1500 GPH but it dropped daily as the cartridges clogged with fish waste. The big Hayward cartridge filter has 500 square feet of surface area and a starting water flow rate of 150 GPM. This might be the answer for me if I can get the 12-foot clarity I want, and the cartridges are easy to swap out with clean ones.

I feed my big fish (about 400 pounds total) every 2-3 days about 10 pounds of trout food and or hot dogs, beef heart, liver, rats and lettuce (for the Pacu). I switched from a 350-gallon sump with 16 square feet of fiber mats, which needed cleaning every other day to a 4.4 cubic foot bead filter. This is ever so much easier to maintain and it alone keeps the Ammonia at or near zero PPM; however I do not have the water clarity I am seeking. The rate of water flow through the bead filter is 5,200 GPH on my present 3,500-gallon aquarium.

I am now constructing a 16 foot long by 12 foot wide by 6 foot deep, 8,000-gallon outdoor aquarium that will require much more filtration. I am trying to keep the initial cost of the aquarium and filter equipment to a minimum. The ongoing operating cost of the pumps and heaters is another big consideration.

Please comment on any of these filtration issues and I will try to get back with answers to your questions as well. In the past month, I have taken in another eight "orphaned" Pacu, which are in a 600-gallon holding tank getting ready to swim with the big fish in the 8,000-gallon tank when it is finished.

[Zoodiver]

I run sand filters on all of my big stuff. I'd suggest them for anything over 2,000 gallons. If you backwash regularly, built up in not an issue. I know a lot of places/people who have channeling problems with sand filters. 99% of the time it's because they do not backwash long enough to fluidize the sandbed in the filter. If you run it long enough, you will not run into these issues. I'd replace the sand maybe once ever two years or so.
One trick I've learned is to have it plumbed in so you can backwash with tank water (for waterchanges) as well as running a city line (or other outside water source) for just basic filter cleaning. I'd run backwashes for 10 minutes or so on 6-9 cubic foot filters.
As for powering them, I'd run a 3 to 5 hp pool pump - depending on how much water you really want to move. The pool pumps are an up front expense, but if well maintained, they last a LONG time.

I'll take some pics of some of my set ups and post them here for you. I think there are others posted on random threads on here, but I'll make sure to get some up on this one as well.

[Zoodiver]

Updated pic of mine still sitting in holding.....waiting.......

And of course we have to have one Nicky (UnderwaterGirl) with her new love. I finally converted her!!

[johnptc]

welcome underwatergirl to the gigas groupie society ( ggs)

[Anythingfish]

It is obvious that your aquatic creatures are very people aware. Do you allow hand feeding? Great looking Arapaima, is it a male or female. What is the length of the gigas?

[johnptc]

It is obvious that your aquatic creatures are very people aware. Do you allow hand feeding? Great looking Arapaima, is it a male or female. What is the length of the gigas?


we hand feed ours !!! very hard to sex until they mate.....:popcorn:

[Zoodiver]

Our's is 48" (almost exactly that). It hand feeds very well. I'm trying to get it to the point where it will ONLY take food from my hand - or at least associate me with food so it doesn't mow down the rest of the exhibit.
He is very aware of people, and even who is who. He likes me very much, but he hates our curator for some reason. We see him repeatedly fast his tail and move away when the boss comes down to see him.

As for sexing, the males build the nest....easiest way to tell. Males will also secrete a milk from glads in their heads to nurish the fry. But again, it takes a mated pair to see this type of behavior.

[UnderwaterGirl]

I didn't realize that you had posted these. I just posted on the other thread. I don't know about the whole converting me thing. I am still a saltwater keeper. I do love the arapaima though. He loves me too, as you can see from the pic. He didn't like it when I tried kissing him though :) He is so cool. John, you need to hurry and get yours grown up so that he outgrows your tank and we can take him off of your hands :)

[Zoodiver]

Yep - Sounds converted to me!

[karl_hungus_]

lovely pimas! :clap

[ays]

Updated pic of mine still sitting in holding.....waiting.......

And of course we have to have one Nicky (UnderwaterGirl) with her new love. I finally converted her!!

nice!! that thing is a monster!! :popcorn: :headbang2 :D

[adalas226]

today i was at my local pet store they had about 3 or 4 in a tank about 7 inches long ... they were under 60$... scary to know that those fish will probably end up in a 55 gal. tank...

[Zoodiver]

The sign went in.....now we just have to get the FISH in to go with the sign!

Special thanks to John for the GREAT picture of his arapaima!!

[johnptc]

The sign went in.....now we just have to get the FISH in to go with the sign!

Special thanks to John for the GREAT picture of his arapaima!!


thanks matt !!!!!!!!!!:headbang2 :headbang2 :headbang2

[T1KARMANN]

The sign went in.....now we just have to get the FISH in to go with the sign!

Special thanks to John for the GREAT picture of his arapaima!!

wow how big is the flagtail that is safe with those monsters

[Zoodiver]

When compared to a gigas, everything is fairly small in the tank....well, not the black pacu. Average size of the fish in there are 6-10" right now. The prochs are all about 4-5". Silver dollar are all about the size of my hand for the most part. Some of the cichlids are well over a foot, but some are about quarter size.

[bmxer4ever]

You must be gettin ready to put the 'Pima in soon, yeah? And how many fry have you pulled now and what species...?

[Zoodiver]

The only fry we pulled were the Midas...over 200.
Tomorrow, I want to set a date / time in STONE to get the fish in. It's going to be covered by all the local TV stations. I'll make sure to get the video up when we move it.

[johnptc]

The only fry we pulled were the Midas...over 200.
Tomorrow, I want to set a date / time in STONE to get the fish in. It's going to be covered by all the local TV stations. I'll make sure to get the video up when we move it.



drugs or no drugs ???

whats the plan ???

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

[Zoodiver]

Going wide awake...... I think the run from holding to the display would too much to keep it down. Plus it's hard to walk a fish the size in 14' of water.

[johnptc]

Going wide awake...... I think the run from holding to the display would too much to keep it down. Plus it's hard to walk a fish the size in 14' of water.


something to consider...........

i have had great sucess with a dark wet towel over the fish ( eyes)....
roll the fish upside down and move. also its a way to hang on to the fish

granted i have down this with anything bigger than a 24 inch tem pbass.... and a few smaller fish......

they have all acted asleep............might be worth a try

john

[cherrybomber]

hats off to you guys!

i've heard of a couple of people over here who keep them in converted swimming pools. Apparently it seems the stray cat population has mysteriously thinned out in those areas for some strange reason.

a local private zoo also has a large quantity of arapaimas. they have various ponds located throughout the zoo stocked with them. the majority of which (i would say 20-30 that i could see) are in a large body of water acting as a natural barrier for the lion enclosure. hmm i wonder if the lions dont like the water or afraid of the Paimas!;)

the highlight of the tour is when you can feed de-beaked chicken heads to the arapaimas. kind of unnerving though to see them literally line up in neat rows by the shoreline waiting patiently for you to toss the something. :eek:

[Zoodiver]

hats off to you guys!



Thanks, we do what we can.

[Zoodiver]

I put some arapaima move pics on the Amazon thread in the Photo area....I think it's like page 29??? Check 'em out! I'll have more later. :headbang2

[Zoodiver]

Put an arapaima move video on the Amazon thread as well...check it out!! :headbang2

[bmxer4ever]

Just about to take a look at the Amazon thread....thanks for keeping the updates on this thread too Matt, looking forward to seeing what happened....!

[bmxer4ever]

Just looked at the pics and the video of the 'Pima move...excellent! Looks very happy in new home. But what's happened to the webcam? Went to have a look at him hanging with the Pacu, but there was no picture on the webcam. Loaded ok, intro played through, then nothing. Just a blank screen.... Is the camera offline..?? I want to see the 'Pima....boohoo..!

Post#400..now I'm a Smallmouth bass! Heehee!

[Zoodiver]

Not sure, I was watching the webcam most of the day yesterday from home???

[bmxer4ever]

Just checked the webcam and it's up and running again, but it seems to do a staged zoom-in.....havn't seen that before. Is this something new? Also looks to be a LOT more fish in there than when I last looked! Still waiting for the 'Pima though...

[Zoodiver]

I think the black pacu bumped it a little to the left. It used to show more of the tunnel.

[bmxer4ever]

JUST realised that we've got parallel threads on 'Pimas running at the same time here at "Ancient Fish".... The other one is in the Arowana section. For MORE 'Pima chat take a look at this thread..."Arapaima Gigas Alliance".

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=984&highlight=arapaima

It's ONLY been going since 2005...duh! Don't know how I missed that one BEFORE starting this one!
bmxer need brain cleaned.....

[bmxer4ever]

Just looking at Johns webcam - Sam is huge now! Didn't realise HOW big 'til the baby 'Pima showed up on cam too....then it yawned! Never seen that before! Cool....

[sbrigz811]

best threadd.

[johnptc]

best threadd.


did you check out the tankcam ???

[johnptc]

from mfk memeber ZIX

raising gigas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5r3UtiCH9o


way cool.............looks like some are released into the wild !!!

[johnptc]

i finally uploaded great pima footage to you tube this is part one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrHuiwRb8D8


and part two as well http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmXbzzQ6-kI

[Opiate]

stunnin specimens!!

[bmxer4ever]

Now that's a lot of 'Pimas! That shot where they are feeding them near the beginning.....looks like 30 or 40 of them! Mental! Big buggers too....they all look like Sam!

[bmxer4ever]

from mfk memeber ZIX

raising gigas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5r3UtiCH9o


way cool.............looks like some are released into the wild !!!

Nice one john...definetly looks like a breed and release conservation project....at last we have proof that SOMEONE is doing it. There's hope for us all yet...! Love the shot of the hands holding the 'Pima fry - never seen them that small before. Great vid.

[Zoodiver]

I was in Dallas over the past week, and stopped my my old Aquarium (Dallas World). I took a few shots of the arapaima there, I'll post 'em when I get home tonight.
They were 10" when I left four years ago. Now they are all pushing 7-9 feet!

[Zoodiver]

Some crappy shots from Dallas. There guys were a little bigger than my hand when we got them in 4 years ago.

[johnptc]

i want their turtle !!!!!!!!!

also how big are the rtc at dwa ???

[bmxer4ever]

Just watching the tankcam...your Channel cat looks like he's gasping for air! Gulping away there....! Most active I've seen him for a while!

[johnptc]

Just watching the tankcam...your Channel cat looks like he's gasping for air! Gulping away there....! Most active I've seen him for a while!


he always breathes hard.... he got a decent cut on this tail area ....:irked:

[Panerai1950]

Hi all, i m new to this forum, im just wondering, Aros, gigas, gars, tigers, dont they ever fight when u put them into the same tank? my aros and gars used to fight everyday until death.....cheers

[johnptc]

Hi all, i m new to this forum, im just wondering, Aros, gigas, gars, tigers, dont they ever fight when u put them into the same tank? my aros and gars used to fight everyday until death.....cheers

the bigger the tank and the more they are feed....the less problems there are

[Zoodiver]

also how big are the rtc at dwa ???

The biggest while I was working there was roughly 80 lbs or so.

[fishdance]

I have some pics I took recently to share. These taken in an aquarium in Japan. I have seen babies taken off mouthbrooding parents in Manila when they are quite small. Pond bred but ponds were simple earthen and not that huge.

http://www.dodgyfish.com/bigfish06.jpg

http://www.dodgyfish.com/bigfish07.jpg

[Zoodiver]

Nice pics.

[bmxer4ever]

It's all gone a bit quiet here..... Where you all gone..?! I know John PTC is a BIT busy building a new swimming pool....

[Zoodiver]

Pics from tonight. He's growing so much!

[rob0521]

WOW!!! NICE GIGAS
How big is he now?

[Zoodiver]

5 feet give or take. He's almost my size!

[ewurm]

Has it snacked on any cichlids or silver dollars yet?

[Zoodiver]

Nope, he's doing very well with coming over to his feeding spot. We've got a team feeding so that we can distract the pacu with other food. They are the pesky ones.

[bmxer4ever]

Wow - look at the colour he's got! Looks a lot like Sam! Nice pics by the way Matt.

[Zoodiver]

Yeah, he does look very close to Sam. I wouldn't be surprised if they came into the US about the same time (maybe even same source in SA).

[bmxer4ever]

Talking about coming from the same source, these "Golden" 'pimas are reputed to have been caught in the southern Amazon. Mexicana?
Anyone encountered one of these before?
Don't show John - he'll just want one and then he'll have to build an even BIGGER tank!
After the "Platinum 'Pima" debacle, maybe no-one will believe in Golden ones....!