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rrcoolj
09-19-2010, 3:36 PM
So years ago i started a saltwater tank that was 10 gallons and it did not go well because I was trying to be cheap which doesn't always work in fish keeping. My 29 gallon tank is almost empty and I was considering jumping into saltwater fish again. This time i want to do everything right the first time. I used to be quite knowledgeable on saltwater fish but again it's been a while.

Basically I am looking at two options. i want to either do a FOWLR community tank of some sort(crabs, shrimp, small fish, etc.) or if it's possible maybe a single predatory fish? Suggestions on both combinations. Looking for fish that are interesting to watch more so for the first option. Since i am not doing corals will i still need a protein skimmer and "special" lighting? the filters will be an aquaclear 50 and an xp2 canister filter.

So I think that's it for now comments?

PEVINE11
09-19-2010, 7:46 PM
i love lion fish!
if you could get a bit larger tank that may be an option?

i would not run the canaster as it will most likely be a nitrate factory and cause problems. same with the aquaclear 50 unless you plan to turn it to a refugium?


have you thought about making a sump/refugium for a filter?
i would deffently run a skimmer



as for lighting i would get a GLO T5 fixture (size depending on the tank you get but get the X2 bulb one)

SpJc11
09-19-2010, 7:48 PM
i may be wrong but there is some dwarf species of lion fish that may be able to live singlary in there

BradT85
09-19-2010, 8:43 PM
I say go ahead and use the canister filter as long as you keep up on cleaning it. I would definitely get a skimmer though. If youre not planning on using a sump, AquaC Remora hang on the back skimmers do a pretty nice job.

I think a FOWLR comm tank would be very nice and you wouldnt need to get anything fancy for lighting either. Although a dual T5 fixture would give you nice lighting with that nice saltwater look.

rrcoolj
09-19-2010, 8:58 PM
I say go ahead and use the canister filter as long as you keep up on cleaning it. I would definitely get a skimmer though. If youre not planning on using a sump, AquaC Remora hang on the back skimmers do a pretty nice job.

I think a FOWLR comm tank would be very nice and you wouldnt need to get anything fancy for lighting either. Although a dual T5 fixture would give you nice lighting with that nice saltwater look.

What type of skimmer would you recommend?


i may be wrong but there is some dwarf species of lion fish that may be able to live singlary in there
I think you are referring to the fuzzy lionfish. Could I keep one in this size tank?



i love lion fish!
if you could get a bit larger tank that may be an option?

i would not run the canaster as it will most likely be a nitrate factory and cause problems. same with the aquaclear 50 unless you plan to turn it to a refugium?


have you thought about making a sump/refugium for a filter?
i would deffently run a skimmer



as for lighting i would get a GLO T5 fixture (size depending on the tank you get but get the X2 bulb one)

Ok so i do not need expensive lighting since i am getting corals so a single t5 bulb or maybe a double?

I am confused on the sump thing. I know for freshwater tanks it's not recommended to use sumps for smaller tanks so they must serve a different pose on saltwater tanks. If I get a sump would i not need the other filters? Can I use a ten gallon I have laying around. I could turn the 50 into a refugium but what would be it's purpose? So I definatly need a skimmer. What type do you recommend?

BradT85
09-19-2010, 9:04 PM
If you are not going to use a sump, you would need a hang on the back style skimmer. I have an AquaC Remora Pro skimmer and it seems to do good job from what i can tell, plus i have had some friends using them and they highly recommend them as well. I haven't used sumps before so I cant give you any credible recommendations for an in sump skimmer if you decide to go that route.

reptileguy2727
09-19-2010, 9:18 PM
A frogfish may work in that size tank.

In my experience most of the people who just want to do fish end up going reef unless they REALLY like the ones that are absolutely not reef safe (triggers, big predators, etc.). If you do fish only it is similar to freshwater in that when you have all of the fish then you are done, from then on it is feed and clean. If you do reef there is always some neat little thing to add, coral to frag out, etc. After going in to LFSs time after time and seeing corals it becomes too irresistable to not try easy corals.

If you do use a canister it is essential to keep it clean. You would need to clean it out on a monthly basis to remove all of that debris before it breaks down into nitrate and phosphate.

A reef is easy and I would recommend that if you do FOWLR stick with stuff that is reef safe so that if at some point in the future you do decide to switch to reef you can do so without breaking it down and removing half or all of the stock.

If you don't do any corals you just need enough light to see your livestock (and it only needs to be on when you can enjoy it, don't leave it on all day just to grow algae). However, a little brighter light will show things off a little better. On that size tank if you go reef I would go with HOT5 with individual curved reflectors and at least two bulbs. If you use a slim fixture you can get a two bulb fixture now and add a second one later when you advance to more demanding corals.

When it comes to skimmers you get what you pay for. Any skimmer is better than no skimmer. In a natural reef tank the live rock is 80% of your filtration, then skimmer, then refugium. If you did a sump it would be where your refugium would go, add volume to the system, be a safer place to add additives and top off water, be where you keep equipment (like heaters, skimmer, reactors, etc.). In general in-sump skimmers are better than HOB skimmers. However, they take up valuable space from the refugium. I used an external skimmer on my tank so I got a great skimmer without using vital space in my sump.

rrcoolj
09-19-2010, 10:15 PM
Don't get me wrong I loved my reef tank but it just didn't workout maybe because I didn't do everything right. So I am getting the idea that a sump would be a good idea. Anybody know any good plans I could use for a tank this size? We will set corals as a later thing. First I want to get the tank setup as a FOWLR setup then maybe I can add corals when it is really mature. What fish would you guys recommend? I was thinking maybe a cleaner shrimp, some hermit crabs, some snails, a small goby, a pistol shrimp(I like the symbiolic relationship) and maybe a small clown fish?

I do have a 55 gallon freeing up soon. Would it be possible to keep some sort of triggerfish? I saw one at this LFS in Baltimore and it was so interactive I played with it forever. I would love to keep one.

rrcoolj
09-20-2010, 6:03 AM
actually lets just focus on the 29 gallon community.

reptileguy2727
09-20-2010, 8:07 AM
You could do a pair of clowns. Stick with ocellaris or percula, they are small and not too aggressive. If you set it up right (enough rock, decent skimmer, etc.) and do enough water changes (at least 10% every week) then you could have more fish. Don't go crazy, but you have room for a few more. Six line wrasses can be very useful, they eat small bristleworms, flatworms, certain sea slug eggs, etc. This can really help keep things under control. A small species of blenny can be really good too. Everyone loves them because they are responsive and have that cute little face. I had a zebra blenny that did well in my tank until the Clarkii clown chased it out.

Always KNOW what species of hermits and snails you are getting, don't just take the word of the people at the LFS. Some species can be very destructive and you shouldn't waste money on stuff that is just going to eat your corals. It is normal to lose snails and hermits to hermits and 'natural' causes, so you will have to restock periodically (about every six months).

The best way to do a sump is to buy the largest aqaurium that fits iin your stand and then make it yourself. It is very easy and simple to get glass cut (or cut ut yourself) and silicone them in. To plan your sump well though you need to know what skimmer and pumps you will be using. This will allow you to give them enough room without too much room. Leave too much room for them and you lose space for your refugium. I used a HOB overflow box on my tank and have no issues with it. I had to modify it a little, but I can't honestly say I wouldn't use one on a larger tank. I use Rio pumps, they are compact (save space for more fuge) not too expensive but not cheap quality, have a built-in intake grate, and have an easy to work with 3/4" output.

PEVINE11
09-20-2010, 10:47 AM
refugium will provide filteration and live foods for fish in the tank.(fish that graze off rock work etc..)

you can make the sump/refugium your self or if you'd rather have a prof. look you can have it made. i had mine made by lifereef.com and he does amazing work. he will set it all up how it should be and if you tell him the skimmer you want he will make it fit perfectly.....
i highly recomend TUNZE 9002 skimmer. i have one and can personally say its amazing! and prety small so fits in the sump nicely. rated up to a 60* gallon tank (i think 60, may be 65 or 55.....)
Tunze 9002 skimmer (http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_viewitem.aspx?idproduct=TZ5311&child=TZ5311&utm_source=mdcsegooglebase2&utm_medium=cse&utm_campaign=mdcsegooglebase2&utm_content=TZ5311)= $146.39
worth every penny!


i would get:
40ish LBS of live rock
30-40lbs of live sand

GLO 24 Inch 2x24 Watt T5 HOlight. this way you can get the marine look, and maybe even keep some simple corals. and it wont take much electricity.......
( i have this on my freshwater planted tank and love it!)
link to the light = $115 (http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_viewitem.aspx?idproduct=HG13910&child=HG13910&utm_source=mdcsegooglebase2&utm_medium=cse&utm_campaign=mdcsegooglebase2&utm_content=HG13910)
Good ratings/reviews
nice looking light over the tank


FISH FOR A 29 GALLON:
i would do:
pair of picasso clowns (semi-picasso if youdont have the money)
Helfrichi Firefish (or if on a budget Purple firefish)
_________ insert another fish here

PEVINE11
09-20-2010, 10:51 AM
ALSO POWERHEADS very important:
Vortech MP10
http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_viewitem.aspx?idproduct=EM1251&child=EM1251&utm_source=mdcsegooglebase2&utm_medium=cse&utm_campaign=mdcsegooglebase2&utm_content=EM1251

may seem like alot of money, but just having the controll of the GPH is totally worth it, and you get diffrent modes and etc. i love mine......dont need something fancy like this, but its great to have

AND koralia nano's for the hard to reach spots
http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_viewitem.aspx?idproduct=HD00715&child=HD00716&utm_source=mdcsegooglebase2&utm_medium=cse&utm_campaign=mdcsegooglebase2&utm_content=HD00716

FLESHY
09-20-2010, 1:01 PM
How about he just gets a couple koralia nanos and doesnt bust the bank?

I love vortech too...its one of the ulitmate reef toys, but...you really dont NEED that. Koralia is all you ever need for conventional flow purposes.

rrcoolj
09-20-2010, 3:08 PM
Oh I am expecting to spend money on this setup I don't want a repeat of last time. I am used to doing weekly 50% water changes for my cichlids would that be too much for a saltwater tank? Im guessing something along the line of 30% would be better. I really like the idea of a clown pair would they breed so I can raise the young eventually? That would be cool. I really like the pistol shrimp and goby dynamic if it's an option if not then oh well. I was thinking (bear with me on the names) blue zebra hermit crabs and asterite or turbo snails if those sound familiar. A small wrasse sounds good too. Sounds like I have a general idea of what I want. Oh and I think I will use the ten gallon for the sump/refugium. Still alot of research to be done.

reptileguy2727
09-20-2010, 4:23 PM
Actually a saltwater tank, if setup right, is a more complete and balanced system so 10% water changes are the norm. If you have problems it is better to do them more frequently than more volume. The livestock in a marine tank cannot handle the same changes as almost any freshwater. What would be nothing to cichlids would wipe out your entire tank in saltwater. Because of this it is better to stock with smaller water changes. In that size tank I would do exactly what I do, get a five gallon bucket with a small pump and mix up five gallons at a time. Keep it running all the time so you have water to go if anything hints you need to do a water change. Then just do five gallon water changes each time. If you will use premixed water from the store then always have a container ready to go. Make sure to top off evaporation with RO water, not saltwater.

It is possible to get your clownfish to breed, but to actually raise the offspring would require at least one if not a few other tanks. The eggs need to be moved to a different tank before they hatch, and the usual method is to grow rotifers to feed the offspring, and grow greenwater algae to feed the rotifers. However, golden pearls have been used to completely raise marine fish in Europe, so that could help bypass all the food culturing.

You should have a variety of cleaners for your tank. These should include nassarius, margaritas, astrea, and turbo snails along with blue leg, scarlet, and burgundy hermits. As specific problems develop you should get more of the cleaners specific to those issues (like more burgundy hermits for red slime algae or a sea hare for hair algae).

rrcoolj
09-20-2010, 6:49 PM
Thanks so much for the advice. One last thing I can think of. I have some left over live rock from my old setup but it's no more than 10lbs. The problem is it is completely dead(white dead). Is it possible to seed it with living rock to help bring it back a little bit or can I at least use it as a foundation. Do I need live rock in the refugium/sump? And can I also seed regular sand or do I need all live sand?

Oh and still no response on the goby question. Also how would I go about getting a pair of clowns?

PEVINE11
09-20-2010, 8:06 PM
Thanks so much for the advice. One last thing I can think of. I have some left over live rock from my old setup but it's no more than 10lbs. The problem is it is completely dead(white dead). Is it possible to seed it with living rock to help bring it back a little bit or can I at least use it as a foundation. Do I need live rock in the refugium/sump? And can I also seed regular sand or do I need all live sand?

Oh and still no response on the goby question. Also how would I go about getting a pair of clowns?


clowns will pair up in the tank most of the time, but you can also buy them as a pair. i bought my picassos from my local pet store. they were in the same tank, and they were the same size.

i bellive thats key, being the same size


also you can seed the rock.

and for the sand i would just buy 2X 20lb bags........


as for live rock in the refugium, i have some in mine just because. not nessary though. i had to much in my display to i put some in the fuge so my rock scape wasnt so croweded.


as for goby/shrimp. i dont see why not? just make sure other tank mates are compadable with them......

reptileguy2727
09-20-2010, 8:09 PM
Get a pair of clowns that are in the same tank at the store, as long as they get along they are a pair.

As long as the pistol shrimp isn't big enough to kill everything in the tank that combo would be a great addition to the tank (just don't be surprised if they pick a burrow you can't see and you rarely if ever get to see them).

You can have a little rock in the fuge, it is most important to have space for macroalgae to grow. When it fills the fuge you cut it in half and take that half into the LFS for a little bit of credit.

Some dead rock is fine, and actually one of the very few ways to save money on saltwater. As long as at least one pound per gallon is actual live rock you should be fine. Use the old stuff as a base and put some actual live rock on top. Over time it will all be live rock. At least 2/3 of my rock was bought dry.

Unless it comes out of an established tank it is not really live sand, at best it is wet sand with the equivalent of an off the shelf bacteria supplement. I used Estes Marine Sand Ultra Reef because I wanted black sand. It is silica based but has a polymer coat to prevent brown algae problems. The color is your choice completely. I prefer sand that is nice and fine, burrowers like it better and it stays cleaner (doesn't trap debris the way a courser sand will).

Now is the time to paint tha back. I always use black, it will make all the colors stand out better and will physiologically increase the pigmentation in the fish.

Here is a while tank shot of my tank:
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c207/reptileguy2727/Reef/IMG_1223.jpg
And here is my sump (sorry no flash). The first chamber (far left) handles bubbles. The first baffle is off the bottom a little (1"). The second baffle is only about 1.5" away. This forces the water down then up into the fuge, which cuts down on the bubbles from the drain from the tank and the skimmer. Then there is the fuge with oolite sand, then the final baffle. The top of the final baffle has eggcrate on both sides which allows me to put a piece of that white plastic needlepoint mesh to keep the macroalgae out of the pump section. The last setion is where all the pumps go (and where the sensor is for the auto top off). To the right of the sump is the auto top off reservoir. Hanging off the back of the sump are a couple reactors (one carbon, one gfo for phosphate). One thing I would do differently is use dakr smoked glass instead of clear to help keep light from the fuge only in the fuge and not growing algae all over the sump. Notice the black, not clear, vinyl tubing for the same reason (before I used the black I had coralline growing inside the tubing). The skimmer is an injection skimmer (versus venturi) so it can sit remotely from the sump/pump. It is behind the stand and you can see part of it and the drain on the left end of the sump. I hope this all helps a little with your sump.
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c207/reptileguy2727/Reef/IMG_1222.jpg

rrcoolj
09-20-2010, 8:34 PM
Lot going on with that sump lol. I think I get the gist but I need more info. Good thing is it doesn't look as hard as I thought(setting up the tank) but bad news is it will be a while. Oh well i can wait until I get everything. So you guys just use regular sand? good because I have plenty of that in the current setup. And since the tank is already running I won't have to re-cycle it. I think I will take using mostly dead rock suggestion because last time the live rock cost me waaay too much. Even for only 10lbs.

reptileguy2727
09-20-2010, 9:13 PM
The sump itself is very simple, just know what pumps and skimmer you are going to use and leave as much space for the fuge.

Just make sure that you get at least one pound per gallon of actual live rock AND that it is very good rock. There are some really good deals online and some of the places are very high quality rock that ships straight from the sea to you.

rrcoolj
09-20-2010, 9:32 PM
Yeah I found some Caribbean live rock online at 25lbs for 110 shipped not bad I think. For the clown fish does it matter what species. Can i use the typical occelaris clown or false occelaris clown. Just curious why someone suggest picasso. Is it just because they look cool or is there a special reason.

reptileguy2727
09-21-2010, 5:24 AM
I would stick with ocellaris or percula, they both stay small and should nto be too aggressive. Picasso is one pattern type of these you could do (there is also naked, black and white, misbar, platinum, etc.). Think of them as breeds of clownfish, there is bound to be one you like.

PEVINE11
09-21-2010, 9:37 AM
I would stick with ocellaris or percula, they both stay small and should nto be too aggressive. Picasso is one pattern type of these you could do (there is also naked, black and white, misbar, platinum, etc.). Think of them as breeds of clownfish, there is bound to be one you like.


i only said picasso because they are the ones i like ( i sugested fish i would get/i have in my 29) , they are a special breed from ORA and are percula clownfish breed to get patterns. so they act exactly like percula's but cooler patterns and much more rare.


Heres a list of ORA clowns (found on page 64 in the july/august coral magazine)

onyx, half onyx, balck onyx, picasso, semi picasso, balck ocellaris, platnium, misbar, lemon, naked, snowflakew, semi snowflake, naked stubby, wyoming white

ALSO:
midnight, domonio.....and i know theres more......

PEVINE11
09-21-2010, 9:53 AM
ALSO:

most and/or all of ORA 'special breeds' are ocellaris or percula clowns. so all will stay small ( fine in a 29 gallon) and typically not agressive........



ALSO
if you see clowns in a store they problay are not a pair unless stated or labled and sold as a pair

they will pair probaly when in your tank heres a video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJHfbJ7RVmc&feature=related



IF YOU SEE THEM DOING THIS watch them closely, one can kill the other one if they are both dominate. this will dertimine which is female and which is male because clownfish are born netural sex.

Alot of people post this under clown fish fight: etc..... when in reality it should be clownfish Pairing.


my semi picasso's did this for 3 nights, and it was pretty violent but i watched closely but now they are a pair and dont leave eachothers side.

Heathd
09-21-2010, 10:51 AM
If you get two clowns at a young enough age, and introduce them to the tank at the same time, you arent likely to have any problems. I never have.

The only exception to this is maroon clowns, as they are just nasty little boogers.

All of ORAs stuff is nice, but they are about the equivelant of a pure breed dog. You pay a lot for a fish with a gene pool shallower then that of a sponge...

I have two false percs, and I have two tomatos in another tank. The tomatos even have a tendency to get nasty at times, but my percs are pretty docile (all things considered).

PEVINE11
09-21-2010, 11:27 AM
If you get two clowns at a young enough age, and introduce them to the tank at the same time, you arent likely to have any problems. I never have.


The only exception to this is maroon clowns, as they are just nasty little boogers.

All of ORAs stuff is nice, but they are about the equivelant of a pure breed dog. You pay a lot for a fish with a gene pool shallower then that of a sponge...

I have two false percs, and I have two tomatos in another tank. The tomatos even have a tendency to get nasty at times, but my percs are pretty docile (all things considered).


"If you get two clowns at a young enough age, and introduce them to the tank at the same time, you arent likely to have any problems. I never have."

if they pair, one can kill another....... keep an eye on it


"All of ORAs stuff is nice, but they are about the equivelant of a pure breed dog. You pay a lot for a fish with a gene pool shallower then that of a sponge..."



Ora has great pattern and rare fish
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy7/Racoon11/1a.jpg

FLESHY
09-21-2010, 2:36 PM
"If you get two clowns at a young enough age, and introduce them to the tank at the same time, you arent likely to have any problems. I never have."

if they pair, one can kill another....... keep an eye on it


"All of ORAs stuff is nice, but they are about the equivelant of a pure breed dog. You pay a lot for a fish with a gene pool shallower then that of a sponge..."



Ora has great pattern and rare fish
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy7/Racoon11/1a.jpg

The fighting is part of the pairing process...the larger fish bullies the smaller one into changing gender. Once paired, the fighting will stop. So... -1.

Heath's point is that the level of inbreeding required to get clowns to the point where they display that coloration is rediculous. Im not sure if thats true or not, but I would guess so, and tend to agree. Your comment has nothing to do with that, other than saying that their fish look cool. Thanks.

rrcoolj
09-21-2010, 4:28 PM
I think i am fine with a regular percula or occelaris clown pair. So it will be them a goby and pistol shrimp and some sort of wrasse and I think that's it for now. I know what equipment I want for the most part. Do I need more than one powerhead?

Heathd
09-21-2010, 5:08 PM
I think i am fine with a regular percula or occelaris clown pair. So it will be them a goby and pistol shrimp and some sort of wrasse and I think that's it for now. I know what equipment I want for the most part. Do I need more than one powerhead?
Short answer: yes

Long answer: yes, you want to keep from having dead spots in your tank, which is impossible (imo) with only one power head.

rrcoolj
09-21-2010, 7:10 PM
Short answer: yes

Long answer: yes, you want to keep from having dead spots in your tank, which is impossible (imo) with only one power head.

Would two be fine in this size tank?

Heathd
09-21-2010, 7:45 PM
Would two be fine in this size tank?
that just depends on how much water each pump moves.

reptileguy2727
09-21-2010, 8:38 PM
It is really hard to get too much flow. There can be too much flow in the spot you put a coral for that particular coral. A lot of people will get two strong pumps, put them at each end of the tank, and put them on a wavemaker. I suggest the Instant Ocean Natural Wave. It is a power strip with six outlets. Two alternate with each other, one goes on and off randomly, and the other are normal outlets you can use for anything. Remember to get flow behind the rock work too. The only pump inside my tank is on the back and points behind all the rockwork. Without a lot of flow all around the rock it cannot do its job of filtering very well.

Any time you change animals from their natural form you reduce genetic variability and hardiness. The more you select for anything other than hardiness the more hardiness you will lose.

You can get normal patterned captive bred clownfish too. These can be very good for many reasons. You know they eat prepared foods, are 'cleaner' than wild caughts (fewer pathogens), do not involve any wild capturing or effects on the ecosystem, and they settle in to new tanks much more easily than those from the wild. So even you do not personally prefer any of the designer breeds there are captive bred wild types.

There are other companies and sources for many of those same breeds of clownfish.

PEVINE11
09-21-2010, 8:52 PM
The fighting is part of the pairing process...the larger fish bullies the smaller one into changing gender. Once paired, the fighting will stop. So... -1.

Heath's point is that the level of inbreeding required to get clowns to the point where they display that coloration is rediculous. Im not sure if thats true or not, but I would guess so, and tend to agree. Your comment has nothing to do with that, other than saying that their fish look cool. Thanks.

pairing process (which i ststed before and posted a video of) can result in death. Also typically the clowns are the same size when pairing at a young age. Then the femalm will become distnictively larger then the male.

"Once paired, the fighting will stop"
Tho from time to time they may fight.....so -1 for you
Espically if the tank is changed alot, or if the clowns are moved to a new tank. they may go through the pairing again


BUT they can fight untill one dies........so the fighting doesnt always stop. so +1 for me.




Heath's point is that the level of inbreeding required to get clowns to the point where they display that coloration is rediculous. Im not sure if thats true or not, but I would guess so, and tend to agree. Your comment has nothing to do with that, other than saying that their fish look cool. Thanks.


yes i did say they are beautiful, and in the hobby they are semi rare. mostly because of the price, and trying to get one can be chllangeing. but as he stated he probly wont get a special breed so no need to get off topic

rrcoolj
09-21-2010, 10:59 PM
Clown are reminding me of cichlids where the male can kill the female during the pairing process. It's probably something I just have to watch so they don't mutilate eachother. Thanks guys for all the advice i really appreciate it. Hopefully a saltwater aquarium is in my future.

FLESHY
09-22-2010, 8:11 PM
pairing process (which i ststed before and posted a video of) can result in death. Also typically the clowns are the same size when pairing at a young age. Then the femalm will become distnictively larger then the male.

"Once paired, the fighting will stop"
Tho from time to time they may fight.....so -1 for you
Espically if the tank is changed alot, or if the clowns are moved to a new tank. they may go through the pairing again


BUT they can fight untill one dies........so the fighting doesnt always stop. so +1 for me.



This is why experienced clown keepers never put two clowns the same size in the same tank.

Sexual Dimorphism in clownfish varies. Your catchall is not only wrong...it is a catch all, and doesnt describe what many clowns do.

Some clowns can change gender their whole lives...some cannot (maroons).
The largest fish in the system is usually female, not because it was "dominant" but because it is much larger, it has no challengers, and therefore is a female. Fish dont grow because of gender.

Once paired clownfish will pick at each other, but I have never once seen this fighting be lethal. Clowns will not "un-pair" due to circumstances (minus complete separation). You can do whatever you want in a tank, the male will stay male, the female will stay female. They will not "re-pair". If you switched up their mates, and gave them respectively smaller or larger mates, they would have to assert dominance over the other (Assuming that they are hermaphroditic for the entirety of their lives, which I have pointed out not all clownfish are.) Until the dominant fish became female.

The bullying occurs because of gender similarities, and for no other reason. Once these have been resolved, the picking will subside to occasional "love taps" if that.

I have spawned clownfish in personal, and laboratory settings. I would go into this more with you...but feel as if describing it in detail would be a waste of my time.

PEVINE11
09-22-2010, 9:02 PM
This is why experienced clown keepers never put two clowns the same size in the same tank.

Sexual Dimorphism in clownfish varies. Your catchall is not only wrong...it is a catch all, and doesnt describe what many clowns do.

Some clowns can change gender their whole lives...some cannot (maroons).
The largest fish in the system is usually female, not because it was "dominant" but because it is much larger, it has no challengers, and therefore is a female. Fish dont grow because of gender.

Once paired clownfish will pick at each other, but I have never once seen this fighting be lethal. Clowns will not "un-pair" due to circumstances (minus complete separation). You can do whatever you want in a tank, the male will stay male, the female will stay female. They will not "re-pair". If you switched up their mates, and gave them respectively smaller or larger mates, they would have to assert dominance over the other (Assuming that they are hermaphroditic for the entirety of their lives, which I have pointed out not all clownfish are.) Until the dominant fish became female.

The bullying occurs because of gender similarities, and for no other reason. Once these have been resolved, the picking will subside to occasional "love taps" if that.

I have spawned clownfish in personal, and laboratory settings. I would go into this more with you...but feel as if describing it in detail would be a waste of my time.

if every thread you feel the need to try to seem more knowledgble.

tho some points stated are correct and some are falso. im done, this thread is not about clown fish, i just recomended them as a fish to keep.

P.S
anyone can spawn clowns.....its raiseing the young and etc. where experiance matters.

FLESHY
09-22-2010, 9:11 PM
I just dont think you should go around saying things that arent true. If you dont know, why say it?

PEVINE11
09-22-2010, 9:34 PM
I just dont think you should go around saying things that arent true. If you dont know, why say it?

enlighten me whats not true....or what do you think isnt true?

rather then rant on things that dont matter like how you breed clowns (which anyone can do its quite common) adress the point you disagree with.

Heathd
09-22-2010, 9:38 PM
if every thread you feel the need to try to seem more knowledgble.

tho some points stated are correct and some are falso. im done, this thread is not about clown fish, i just recomended them as a fish to keep.

P.S
anyone can spawn clowns.....its raiseing the young and etc. where experiance matters.
LULZ

PEVINE11
09-22-2010, 9:42 PM
LULZ

i appolige but what does LULZ mean?

FLESHY
09-22-2010, 9:44 PM
appolige

What does THAT mean?

reptileguy2727
09-22-2010, 9:50 PM
I think this should be taken elsewhere, PM or new thread. New thread could help share info and opinions that could help others.

PEVINE11
09-22-2010, 9:51 PM
Apologize, my bad. lets get this thread back on topic.

Fleshy, please try to stop derailing peoples thread.

everytime i post something, you dont need to come from behind and pretend to be smarter

BigO6687
09-22-2010, 9:53 PM
Apologize, my bad. lets get this thread back on topic.

Fleshy, please try to stop derailing peoples thread.

everytime i post something, you dont need to come from behind and pretend smarter


lulz x2

rrcoolj
09-22-2010, 10:00 PM
So basically spawning clowns is easy but raising the young is a piece of work. Im not pressed on raising clowns anyway I don't think i have the tank space. Wow clowns are very interesting in their pairing and spawning. i had no idea they could change sexes especially throughout their lives. very interesting.

By the way lulz means lol basically.

PEVINE11
09-22-2010, 10:05 PM
So basically spawning clowns is easy but raising the young is a piece of work. Im not pressed on raising clowns anyway I don't think i have the tank space. Wow clowns are very interesting in their pairing and spawning. i had no idea they could change sexes especially throughout their lives. very interesting.

By the way lulz means lol basically.

yes to take care of young clowns you need mutiple tanks, siphon out the eggs and etc....(not exactly sure)

"By the way lulz means lol basically"

and thank you i googled it haha
.......who posts lulz......waste of thread space

Heathd
09-22-2010, 10:30 PM
.......who posts lulz......waste of thread space
like a majority of your post

FLESHY
09-23-2010, 10:30 AM
So moral of the story rrcoolj...test your water, and determine whether or not you need RODI.

If you have city water, I would recommend it without even testing.

Sharon K Hickman
11-09-2010, 11:49 AM
i had a 100 gallon tank and I had a humma and a niger and a pink tail and a dogface but i really did enjoy that tank and than my tastes started to comply and later on added more live rock to the marco rock that i had and turned in the triggers and the dog face puffer and turned it into a reef . i already had the metal hilides and a sump and a mangro in the bottom of it. I agree with all that you said because it is right.