reef? or deep? in a 120g

[MidasMan]

im starting a 120g salt and dont know what to put in it. i want triggers and lionfish, but also want clowns, tangs, crabs.......if i go with triggers :drool: what is good compatibility wise? :feedback:

[Mattcomptonassvanhorn]

NONE :headshake

[Miles]

Triggers and Lions dont mix well.. Yes, you might of seen people mix a volitan with a larger shy trigger.. but in general, the triggers will nip up the lions, and pretty much everything else in the tank. Most Trigs get rather large.. Clowns can be jerks, but Tangs are nice.

If I were you, I would consider doing a community of 2-4 dwarf species of Lionfish, with 1 or 2 tangs. Remember, keep your bio-load as low as possible, and use plenty of live-rock. Crabs should be fine in this set-up too, unless they are tiny..

[Ph0etus]

If your going for a reef that's just another reason to stay away from triggers. They'll nip up your corals just as much as they will your other fish.

[Mattcomptonassvanhorn]

Ive only seen one fish pick on a lionfish and and that ****** got stung about thirty times in the ****in face! :headbang2

[mkpeters6]

my experience with triggers is add them at the same time with the other fish, i never had a problem with my trigger when i added him to an already exsisting tank, but as soon as i tried to add a fish after that they were tormented almost immiediatly by the trigger, but he never once attacked the exsisting fish.

[CentralMayhem]

not all tangs are nice at all. the sohal tang and lineatus tang a.k.a clown tang are mean and large capable fish. lions and triggers dont work well. most triggers will eventually take over the whole tank. some are less aggressive than others, but any inverts will become food eventually. lions and tangs would be fine the clowns would get munched. triggers and tangs should be fine as long as the tang is larger and added first. clowns wouldnt fit in with the lions or triggers. go with either the lion or the trigger and accompany either one with a nice sohal tang, and maybe a harlequin tusk fish. warning though all these fish get LARGE!!!!!!

[TLTGF]

thanks for this thread, it was damnear exactly what i was going to ask, only diff is 150gallon... from what i have read panther groupers, blue tangs, flame angels, will do nicely with a lion... if i'm wrong don't shoot the messenger :)

[Mattcomptonassvanhorn]

:iagree: You can put lionfish with anything the same size or greater. which means no inverts damsels or clowns. I have a tang with my lion and they get along great as does all the others because they are the same size and all swim at different levels of the aquarium.

[Miles]

You can put lionfish with anything the same size or greater. which means no inverts damsels or clowns. I have a tang with my lion and they get along great as does all the others because they are the same size and all swim at different levels of the aquarium.


Please don't fill up the Saltwater forum here with erranous crap passed down by the 'forefathers' of aquarium mythology.

You should pick your Lionfish tankmates wisely, as 'anything the same size or greater' could be asking for problems. I know it would not be a wise choice to put a trigger or a puffer with a Lionfish. Although it has been done before, and you and your daddy have probably done it a million times, dosn't mean it is a wise choice for a beginner with little to no experience.

There are alot of options out there, so don't assume that people who have kept fish here at MFK know everything! Keep the doors open to as many all possibilities. We keep monster fish here, but mostly freshwater. Mr Comptonass here, keeps monster saltwater fish, in a very non-monsterous tank.

Perhaps do a little research on an actual reef keeping forum, before assuming that a person from Kansas, referring to himself as 'comptonass', has all the answers.

His opinion is just 1 of millions, and I find his opinions to be false in most cases. Please read up and practice proper saltwater husbandry, before you make a large investment!

Miles

[Mattcomptonassvanhorn]

Please don't fill up the Saltwater forum here with erranous crap passed down by the 'forefathers' of aquarium mythology.

You should pick your Lionfish tankmates wisely, as 'anything the same size or greater' could be asking for problems. I know it would not be a wise choice to put a trigger or a puffer with a Lionfish. Although it has been done before, and you and your daddy have probably done it a million times, dosn't mean it is a wise choice for a beginner with little to no experience.

There are alot of options out there, so don't assume that people who have kept fish here at MFK know everything! Keep the doors open to as many all possibilities. We keep monster fish here, but mostly freshwater. Mr Comptonass here, keeps monster saltwater fish, in a very non-monsterous tank.

Perhaps do a little research on an actual reef keeping forum, before assuming that a person from Kansas, referring to himself as 'comptonass', has all the answers.

His opinion is just 1 of millions, and I find his opinions to be false in most cases. Please read up and practice proper saltwater husbandry, before you make a large investment!

Miles

Kiss my ass your the one telling people that lionfish are hard to care for so bite me!Your the one belittling the intteligents of the fish. you think a trigger is gonna pick on a lion. I dont think so.There a little smarter than that. Lions are mean and preditory and Ive seen them fend off fish up to 10 times there size.but I bet you wouldnt think so because your the perfect aquarist and almighty. you act like your the god of salt you mental panzee. Stop being a little douche and trying to talk **** to me through a forum!

[Mattcomptonassvanhorn]

By the way maybe before you start talking **** again maybe you should get something besides stingrays or lionfish. Id like to see try to care for a blue ribbon like I do and guess what he is in a 240 with 2 canisters 2 powers and a gravel, but I guess thats just stupid isnt, a 240 is to smalll for that species! Miles from Spokane! and I hope you get a chance to read this before the adminastrators edit it.So I guess we should stop posting in the saltwater forum because according to you none of us know anything!

[Miles]

Lions are mean and preditory


It is comments like this that should not belong in the saltwater forum here. This statement is absolutely false. Lionfish are indeed predators, but they are shy and reclusive fish.

All saltwater fish in general are hard to care for, to some degree.



Please do not make me request that someone with 100x more knowledge on the subject of saltwater, come to this forum. I do not know that much about saltwater, but I do know the basics. I understand proper filtration and husbandry practices. Just because your daddy owns a shop, dosn't mean he knows jack. It sounds like to me he is one of those 'This is how Ive always done it, and this is how I will always do it' kinda guys.. They are the most ignorant people I have ever met. I know multiple LFS people who run decent shops here, and they are complete fish idiots. Just because you got the info from someone you trust, does not mean it is absolutely, 100% correct. After going back through this forum, and reading a majority of your posts and comments, it further proves you do not know as much as you 'think' you know. I also find it comical that you are not 'allowed' to take pictures of a 'family' owned fish store, which leads me to believe you are even more full of it. It is also funny how your tank sizes, and tankmates often change from day to day.

This is really not the place to argue, but if you don't know WTF you are talking about, please don't splatter out some random garble all over the SW section. If you 'think' you know what you are talking about, just assume that the information given to you was false, and you should do more research. Have you ever tried reading?

Please, share your wisdom on how 'fish grow to the size of their tank' some more, so people can further understand the ignorance which has been embedded into your thought process.

FYI, for every retarded and false comment you make, I will be right here to dispute it. I will also back my statements with phsyical and scientific evidence, rather then 'Thats what Pa told me!"..

MFK members should have the opinion of more then one person, and they should also have the ability to make their own judgement, as well as have references to help them make proper decisions. Opinions are like *******s, everyone has one and most of them stink. Unfortunetly we have a 'know it all' that 'all it knows' is everything that has been told unto him, is absolutely correct.

My advice is in the best interest of Saltwater Fauna, and MFK members in general. MFK Members - Please do not listen to ignorant statements, without actually doing proper research and finding definitive answers.

If anyone has a specific question, please PM me and I will help you find a resource that will help with exactly what you are looking for!

Miles

[Mattcomptonassvanhorn]

first of all my father dos not own a fish shop. I never said that. you look through all 200+ posts and threads I have written, and you will see no where that Ive said that, and second of all where have I claimed to know everything! All I know is what 20+ years of saltwater fishkeeping have taught me. You may think that lionfish are shy while I dont. Maybe with there own kind! but from my personal experience I have never seen another fish besides a lion pick on a lion, and as for all your wisecracks about my " pa" He has kept salt and fresh for over 40 years. WHich you claim to know everything scientificle and moral about salt. You have 1/4 the experience of him. He has gone through as many different situations as you can imagine.( Some good and bad) and I have never and I quote pushed my opinion upon some one. I have given them sugestions from my past experience, and I will never do that. and yes I have made a couple of rude comments. 9/10 of them were to you and one that I made to bluedempsey which I apologize for. but as for you Miles I wont apologize to you any more, and by the way for every post of mine you have to protest Ill be right here to tell you to kiss my ass. why dont you go hav sex with your stingray that has found his way into your heart. :hearts: :hearts:

[MidasMan]

guys guys i think i have an idea but dont get pissy. the fish hobby is more like trial and error, not so much of the books. you cant rely on just the books you have to try everything out or ask around to different ppl and see what they have done. ive messed around with fish for over 10years and people tell me and cant put this fish with that, do this or that and i do it any way and then there are different outcomes. you just have to try different things, and not rely on the bs that are put in books.

[CentralMayhem]

well i HATE to say this but miles is right. i just dont like the way he belittles some people to try and get his point across. you always talk about the hillbillys that say " hey pa, can we have that there fish pa" like everyone on here is a red neck. you may have some knowledge under your belt miles as i have argued with you before. i dont doubt you. but to tell this guy off like that is lame. just makes us all think your an ass with an ego trip trying to prove something. just tell people politely. mr compton. i have seen quite a few lions disemboweled by triggers and puffers. they make short work of those spines. on the other hand i have seen some MONSTER lions that most sane fish would stay away from. problem is triggers are not sane, and their cousins the puffers are not far behind. a flame angel would be a joke with anything but a very small lion. point is lets just love eachother no need for all this hate. cant we all just get along. hahahahahahahah. thanks for your knowledge miles. not picking on ya bro. ......ok maybe just a little. all in good fun.

[Miles]

I am just trying to make sure MFK members are getting a fair shot at correct information, that's all.

[CentralMayhem]

ROCK ON MILES!!!!!!! thanks for looking out for all of us bro. we need a lot of good eyes out there to edit the bull****. people need honest answers. just deliver em a little easier for some of the pussies out there.

[TLTGF]

Central, a flame angel is a bad idea? that figures, well at least i said im not 100% sure... It was on some compatibility site, thanks for the tip though, i'm hoping to start my tank soon enough and i probably would've thrown one right in. Cool Cool.

[Mattcomptonassvanhorn]

I dont act like I know everything. and when ever someone leaves an opinion or a personal experiences with fish Miles has to come in and put them down make them sound like an idiot. Its not my fault he has to act like a butthole to everyone. Books only contain about 1 millionth of all the fish info. The only way you can truly know what you are doing is by experience and years and years of experience. So Miles when you get about 40 years more of experience then Ill start to take you seriously, and Im sick and tired of ruining these peoples threads because you want to bs everyone. Miles you keep fish your way and Ill keep mine my way and if you want to bs me then pm me and leave all these other people out of it just trying to get fish info. The info I leave is my experince Ive kept lions with triggers in perfect harmony, and I have never seen a trigger pick on a lion without getting itself killed afterwords. I need to stop replying to you Miles because I keep getting my post count reduced and at this rate I wont be able to see pictures.

[CentralMayhem]

mr compton. we need to keep everyone in here informed. you personally have never seen a trigger disembowel a lionfish. but it happens more often than not especially with the more aggressive triggers. you have apparently seen a different side of the lion. more often than not the lion will lose out to the trigger. experienced fish keepers with butt loads of room may be able to accomplish stuff others with normal tanks can not. i have seen many combinations work that should theoretically have failed. but every time it was in a larger than normal aquarium. for the beginner they are not a good mix. and TLTGF you are doing this right. ask questions BEFORE you buy your fish. a flame angel is a dwarf. youd be better off with one of the larger angels, but again youd need a huge tank for a full grown lion or angel let alone both in the same tank

[TLTGF]

thanks for the tip, on that note.... what would be a proper size if i were to have a full grown lion with other fish as well... are we talking 180+ or much bigger... like i have said many times, i am very new... im reading as much as possible and keeping an open mind for fw or sw, but i would like to do salt, i've been to some sites that say sw is for experienced only, tons of maintainence and very meticulous, others say not bad at all even for a novice aquarist. i guess all the help you can give me will be appreciated. as funny as it sounds i pretty much want to have a volitan as my "centerpiece" and work on the rest from there. Thnaks

[CentralMayhem]

salt is only hard if you dont start on the right track. if you buy all the right stuff at the beginning you shouldnt have a problem. In my opinion if you want a FULL grown lion id go with a 180 minimum if you want other large tankmates. Buy a huge skimmer and make a nice sump. id fill the tank with some sand and base rock, and then buy a few pounds of quality luive rock and live sand to seed it with. fish only tanks with live rock are in my opinion the way to go in fish only systems. you will get beneficial micro and macro algae to grow and it helps benefit any grazers you may have in the tank such as tangs or angels, by letting them forage all day as they do in nature. lionfish are BIG fish and they are pretty sedentary. they will usually just hang out under an over hang if available or in the upper corner of your tank. they are not the reason youd need such a large tank. the angels and tangs need room and lots of it. if you want to be successful go with the largest tank you can afford. buy a good sized skimmer and do regular partial water changes. key word being REGULAR. they are big fish with big appetites and make lots of waste. they will put stress on your biological filtration unless you keep on top of it. dont let anyone discourage you, just do your home work and get your hands wet. nothing beats hands on experience. everyone starts somewhere.

[bluedempsey]

well said, we are all here to help each other!!!
if anyone needs any help or has any questions, please pm me
i own a saltwater fish store!

[CentralMayhem]

YOUR MY BOY BLUE!!!!!!!!!!!!! help is always welcome. we need more people who want to help

[bluedempsey]

:thumbsup:
:cheers:
:shark:
pretty cool little icon's

[Miles]

thanks for the tip, on that note.... what would be a proper size if i were to have a full grown lion with other fish as well... are we talking 180+ or much bigger... like i have said many times, i am very new...

It's okay to be new, and don't be afraid to ask questions! The bigger the tank the better! Lions don't need swimming space, but the more water volume you work with, the more stable your water conditions will be.


im reading as much as possible and keeping an open mind for fw or sw, but i would like to do salt, i've been to some sites that say sw is for experienced only, tons of maintainence and very meticulous, others say not bad at all even for a novice aquarist.

Good, keep reading ;) Like Mr. Comptonass said, a Book is only a small part of the information that is available. Look at everything with an open mind, and take all opinions into consideration, and make your own final judgements based on what you have learned. Of course there will be trial and error periods, as well as learning from mistakes..

As far as the maintenance goes, CentralMayhem put it best. It all depends on how you set it up.

If you wish to buy multiple canister filters, powerheads, and install an undergravel filtration system, you are looking at alot of maintenance, and possibly a serious problem in the future. Go to your local PetCo, this is how they tell people to set up saltwater tanks. Their quality of Saltwater fish is a good reflection of how effecient this system is.

Like I stated before, the problem with all of these filtration methods is that in due time they will become clogged, causing a build-up of detritus. This is dangerous, because it can sufficate your nitrifying bacteria, which will then cause ammonia to build up in the tank. Ammonia is very toxic at a high pH, such as is in a saltwater tank. Also, the build-up of detritus will release an excessive amount of Nitrates into your tank, which will eventually lead to a buildup of dissolved waste and acids, which then will crash your pH if your water is not properly buffered. Wet-Dry, Canister, and Undergravel will all in due time create a build up of detritus, leading to an excessive amount of Nitrates. You do not want any extra Nitrates in your tank if you can help it, as Lionfish already put off a large amount of waste.

The concept of a 'Natural' aquarium is much more effecient, stable, and favoritable, especially for Lionfish. When using LiveRock and LiveSand as your methods of filtration, not only do wastes get broken down into Nitrate, they also have 'de-nitrifying' properties. This means your filtration methods will not only help break down fish waste, it will also stop Nitrates from accumulating in your tank. Many of the algaes and organisms that live within a live sand bed, or LiveRock, will eat Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate, helping keep your tank clean, with less tedious maintenence. I would also reccomend adding a large clump of 'Calerpa' to your tank, which is the green vegitation that helps to consume nitrates.

I can go into further detail, but I would be repeating myself.. I already discussed the pros and cons of this ;) If anyone has specific questions, let me know and I'd be glad to help!

I am assuming you want mainly a 'Fish only' tank.. If you want to have a 'reef' tank with corals, anenomes, and other inverts.. Then you might want to re-consider your plans. This, infact, does take a little more time and effort, as well as maintenance. You will often spend much of your time feeding your special corals, or testing your water quality, instead of enjoying your fish.


Do not overfeed your Lionfish. They can suffer from Fatty Liver Disease, as well as pollute the tank pretty quickly.

Any Saltwater tank needs the best Protein Skimmer you can afford. This is the most important part.

[CentralMayhem]

hold on miles WATER CHANGES are the most important part. all protein skimmers will fail if left on their own. they must be cleaned regularly to keep proper functioning and will only help a little if you dont do WATER CHANGES. after water changes in a fish only tank the skimmer is second most important part of a salt tank

[Miles]

Well Yeah.. Aside from the Obvious! Sorry I left that out..I thought we were talking about filtration concepts, not SW husbandry in general..

Every tank should have as many water changes as possible!


Sad to admit it, but I hardly change the water in my SW tank ;) Maybe like 30 gallons every few months? I would reccommend more.. but hey, I have other fish to take care of.. It's funny too, because my SW tank is the least maintenance!

[Miles]

Oh yeah, and if it's not broke, don't fix it.

[CentralMayhem]

rock on. if you practice good husbandry i.e. not over feeding or stocking you can have a fairly easy maintenance plan in any tank. but we keep MONSTERS and monsters need water changes.

[I3u11he4d]

rock on. if you practice good husbandry i.e. not over feeding or stocking you can have a fairly easy maintenance plan in any tank. but we keep MONSTERS and monsters need water changes.
I think I have to agree with miles,seems that afew people on MFK just throw out uneducated opinions.To think some people take them 100% seriously is kinda sad since theyll be spendin cash and time on bad advice that my cost them more cash and time.Things that work for one person may not work the same for another,ecspecailly when its a shot in the dark.Not to mention the fish,isnt this hobbie about giving the creatures we purchase the best of conditions to live in,uncrowded,clean and safe from predators or harm from others.If not Ill stop and sell all my s*** now and get in to cock fighting(thats a roster for all you lamens out there.) or better yet pitbulls.In my opinion theres nothing worse than an overstocked tank or improper tank mates.some of this may be abit of subject but I think it all relates in what kind of hobbists we are or want to be.IN short DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :p :cheers:

[TLTGF]

well thanks to everybody- that is a lot of very nice input... should tide me over for a hot minute at least. Well it looks like it may take a bit longer to accumulate all my equiptment since im a little tight on cash. i just dropped $500 in my car... damn thing. Well anyway thanks to everyone again, i will try to help anyone i can with problems i have too. One last thing, what is everyones opinions about lion tank mates - i'm looking to probably have three in a 180 gallon, is this too many and if not what are some good choices (i would like fish that are beautiful, hardy and something that everyone and their brother doesn't have) thanks again

[CentralMayhem]

abudjubee maori wrasse, and a sohal tang should be great additions with a lion

[TLTGF]

its funny that you mention a tang and a wrasse, as i was looking myself for mates i stumbled across a dragon wrasse, and a red sea pacific sailfin tang - would these fit my purpose - also i found the sohal (very nice) i looked everywhere and couldn't find the abudjubee maori wrasse - i found tons of sites and pics of other maori but never any with abudjubee, do you know scientific name? or a site i can find pics?
Thanks

[Mattcomptonassvanhorn]

Dragon wrasses dont get that big maybe 4 to 5 inches and dont get very thick. If you are planning on Volitons then a dragon wrasse would probably not be a good choice. I reccommend a greenbird wrasse. They are hardy beautiful, very active and can sometimes get up to 8 inches, I do agree with your red sea sailfin they are also beautiful hardy and grow large, and are very active.
By the way nice looking avatar! :thumbsup:

[TLTGF]

thanks for that tid-bit that is why i ask questions i guess, also nice avatar yourself :)

[CentralMayhem]

dragon wrasse get twice that size easily bro. sorry. ive had a 10"er. they are a way better choice than the bird wrasse. when dragon wrasse get larger they lose the extended dorsal filament and their juvenile coloration. they are hardy tough fish if you can accquire a good healthy specimen they were considered fragile fish at one point in time because they were often collected with cyanide. dragon wrasse can be a bit aggressive and they are very strong fish so your rock work needs top be very secure. they can move huge pieces of rock and coral for their size. the desjardinii tang is a good choice as well and very pretty. I will try and find the abujubee wrasse for you, i thought it was Cheilinus abujubee, maybee abujubee is just a sub species. ill find it for you for sure though.

[Mattcomptonassvanhorn]

dragon wrasse get twice that size easily bro. sorry. ive had a 10"er. they are a way better choice than the bird wrasse. when dragon wrasse get larger they lose the extended dorsal filament and their juvenile coloration. they are hardy tough fish if you can accquire a good healthy specimen they were considered fragile fish at one point in time because they were often collected with cyanide. dragon wrasse can be a bit aggressive and they are very strong fish so your rock work needs top be very secure. they can move huge pieces of rock and coral for their size. the desjardinii tang is a good choice as well and very pretty. I will try and find the abujubee wrasse for you, i thought it was Cheilinus abujubee, maybee abujubee is just a sub species. ill find it for you for sure though.

Your kidding right man I mean ya they get ten inches in the ocean maybe. Which is not 180 gallons. A dragon wrasse will not get get that big in a 180. ANd Ive done my research to. The average size in an aquarium is 4 inches wich will if not in the first week be consumed by a Volitan. So Central post a pic of a ten inche dragon wrasse in a 180 gallon aquarium and I will beleive you. DOnt think of Napolean and humphead wrasses and think all wrasses are gonna get huge. If he put a dragon in a 300+ then yes I would agree with you he would get ten inches but not in a 180, and he wont grow fast enough because the Volitons even if bought young will out grow it quickly. and that is why I recommend a greenbird because they can be bought fairly young and at good size, and they are about ten times as active as a dragon wrasse and are very hardy, and with the bird wrasse genus you can even combine wich I just learned recently there Genus and store a male and a female in the same quarter.

[Mattcomptonassvanhorn]

And Ive also seen dragon wrasses drag large rocks and crack aquarium glass. Which I agree if you get a dragon then rock does need to be secure.

[CentralMayhem]

well hahahahahaha if it isnt mr compton. actually i have no pics of a 10" dragon wrasse in a tank. first you went from a 5 inch fish to a 10 inch fish. i could care less what you wanna believe bro they are very active and always on the hunt. way more aggressive than a bird wrasse and they grow fairly quickly if you accquire a healthy specimen. if there are no internal parasites and it is kept in near perfect water quality in a 180 it will grow at a very decent rate. apparently you are getting second rate fish of a lesser quality. i live right here in so cal and see perfectly healthy dragon wrasses come in. i would buy the wrasse a little larger than the lion which is common sense if you know what lions can fit in their mouths. spare me your talk about 5" in a 180 and 10" in a 300. how many have you kept on your own and raised. amd if you have to watch out for rocks and coral because of them they must be over 5" and fairly hefty. they arent diggers they are movers. thats why there common name other than dragon wrasse is rock mover wrasse. juvies are dragon and the adults are rock movers. so tell us again about your dads fish keeping for 40 yrs and yours for 20 and how the bird wrasse is better. blah blah blah. you are only one person man just because you have had one experience with one fish doesnt mean ****. all fish are different and you just need to do homework on your fish or you need to keep your ytanks healthier and feed your fish better so they grow to full adult size.

[Mattcomptonassvanhorn]

Where do you get off Central Mayem, How about you do some research. Do the math. A dragon wrasse will take up to 3 or 4 years to reach 10'' keep in mind the tank is large enough. If a Voliton is kept in the same large Aquarium and fed right it should reach up to 10 inches in a year and a half. Now I think even you can figure those numbers. and your 10'' dragon wrasse you had you must of netted him right out of the ocean and then he must of lived for about 6 months. I will agree with you on one part that there are different qualities of fish. I have a 18'' Japenese koi imported that I have had for about 12 years now. and I also had a couple of assorted koi that I got from petsmart 7 years ago. They are now dead. not from disease not from anything but because of quality of the fish. and there I agree centralMayhem. and by the way a greenbird at 6 months is 6'' which is solid fact and are very preditory and do much more than just rearange your tank and make it look like crap. If you have raised a dragon that was 10'' as fast as you say then give me some of what ever your feeding it.

[CentralMayhem]

i never said i had them myself. where didyou see that. i said i have seen. i service quite a few tanks around the san diego area. if your talking all this and then you are gonna tell me that a bird wrasse is still ok then piss off dude. you are a waste of my trip towards carpal tunnel syndrome. i will no longer post to your know it all ass. you tried this same **** with miles. whom though i have argued with him on many a thing is still way more knowledgeable than yourself. go work at PETSMART or something. a 180 is more than plenty for a fish to reach 10" dude. and we are talking about stocking a 180 i assume. not with juvenile fish. dragon wrasse juvies are harder to keep than sub adults and will no doubt probably never reach their full size before you get rid of them. start with a 6" rock mover and a 3" lion and about a 4" sailfin and let them grow and watch how much you can control your lions growth. they are slow feeders and you should be able to feed your wrasse and tang more often. we are not talking about power feeding your lions dude. mr compton i tried to like you but sorry bro IM OUT!! MFE

[Mattcomptonassvanhorn]

i never said i had them myself. where didyou see that. i said i have seen. i service quite a few tanks around the san diego area. if your talking all this and then you are gonna tell me that a bird wrasse is still ok then piss off dude. you are a waste of my trip towards carpal tunnel syndrome. i will no longer post to your know it all ass. you tried this same **** with miles. whom though i have argued with him on many a thing is still way more knowledgeable than yourself. go work at PETSMART or something. a 180 is more than plenty for a fish to reach 10" dude. and we are talking about stocking a 180 i assume. not with juvenile fish. dragon wrasse juvies are harder to keep than sub adults and will no doubt probably never reach their full size before you get rid of them. start with a 6" rock mover and a 3" lion and about a 4" sailfin and let them grow and watch how much you can control your lions growth. they are slow feeders and you should be able to feed your wrasse and tang more often. we are not talking about power feeding your lions dude. mr compton i tried to like you but sorry bro IM OUT!! MFE

Youve never owned a rockmover wrasse yet you claim to know everything about them hmmmm..................... There is a difference between owning and seeing bro.:duh:

[iheartfishies]

simmer down boys!!!
Maybe we need to take this outside! ;)

[Mattcomptonassvanhorn]

But anyway wrasse, tangs and large angels are all good canidate tankmates for a lion.

[CentralMayhem]

your a waste of my time mr compton. see ya!!!!!I mean i love to argue, but only with someone who knows what they are talking about. kick rocks and go back to the little place in your head where you feel most comfortable pulling this nonsense from.

[CentralMayhem]

and i just read this whole thread, YOU ARE A JOKE!!!! where did any of your info come from. you tried to argue with miles about triggers. now with me about the wrasses. you say wrasses, tangs and large angels. such a broad spectrum bro. tangs and LARGE angels yeah sure. but do you know how many wrasse are unsuitable for lions. and how many triggers will kill your lions, and just HOW BIG those LARGE ANGELS get. we are talking a 180 and now youre talking putting a LARGE angel and a LARGE lionfish and a LARGE tang all into this 6ft tank. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm let me see....naw, nevermind im not wasting my time on you again. dont bother posting a reply, i will no longer answer anything you post in MFK. DONE!!!!!

[TLTGF]

well i do apologize for creating such a ruckus in here... like i said i still have a lot of time to think about these things, i don't even have a tank yet!!! I am pretty set about a sailfin and a volitan now does anyone agree on a dragon (or whatelse is a good candidate that is similar) Mr. Compton i take everything in as open-minded as possible and i appreciate all the input you are giving me however i don't like the way the greenbird looks it just looks goofy to me, sorry.... if i need to go with a bigger tank than by all means let me know... like i said before everything revolves around a volitan so i want the best possible for that application, the volitan is to be my centerpiece not the only fish i have, please let me know an optimal size if i were to have a volitan and maybe three other compatible fish, thanks again and also how would you secure live rock???

[guppy]

I have not kept many salt fish and the ones I did were locals in unheated tanks, that said I do love the volitans, I would like to keep, and some day will, a 150g sw fish only tank with a volitans lion, a panther grouper, and hopefully a snowflake eel. I have a picture in my minds I of these three against a black background over pale gravel in a ttank with a thicket of bleached staghorn coral.

[TLTGF]

I like to see that people can still dream... sounds like you have quite an imagination. I think that combo would look amazing myself... I'm still not sure if i want a color background or just clear one... that is the fun of being an aquarist i suppose, so many choices and combinations so many fish and other creatures that can give us such enjoyment... good luck on your future investment and keep us all posted when you do.

[Mattcomptonassvanhorn]

Dont worry TG this is all in good fun. its always exciting to get these people riled up. By the way central Mayhem. Think brfore you talk. This guy was asking about rockmover wrasses. Even he himself can go to live aquaria. com and say oh these guys get up to a foot. Now you claim to call me a joke yet I dont think you know the first thing about the wrasse genus at all. This man has asked about are personal experiences with a rockmover, and this is what you say." Yeah I wants saw a 10 incher its really cool and he was dragging huge rocks and throwing them around." You've had no experience with keeping this fish. Dont talk to me about the mumbo Jumbo reasearch you have done on the rockmover when you dont have the experiance. In my personal experince with rockmovers, and Ive had three. They were all very hardy, dragged rocks and substrate all across the aquarium, and at night would bury himself in the sand. So go away and bury yourself in the freshwater forums. Ive never had a rockmover get over 5'', and dont come back and say oh you must be a horible fishkeeper and you didnt feed it right or it wasnt in a right sized tank. There is a difference in how fish a big gets in the wild or out in the ocean then how big it is going to get in a home aquarium. Dont go to a website or read a book and always beleive it.I wont be leaving any more post on this thread or even looking at it so dont even bother to repley, but I know you will because you are a mental panzee that likes to kiss peoples a$$es. :thumbsup: GOOD LUCK with your tank TG post pics when you got it. ;)

[TLTGF]

will do, i just got an offer for a 180 nearby and im in the process so hopefull im on the home stretch

[CentralMayhem]

hey TLTGF you are ok to go with a dragon wrasse if you want too, just make sure it is larger than the lion in the first place. i have plenty of knowledge of salt and fresh, and will be more than happy to answer any questions you have if you just pm me. I mean he has never seen ANY fish mess with a lion and he has never seen a grown dragon wrasse outside of the discovery channel. He always uses quotes that were never said. puts words into peoples mouths. if you want quality ADVICE because thats all it is is advice, i know not every body follows the advice you give, but if you want it private message me and ill answer anything you need to know to the best of my abilities

[Just1nK4ng]

if your a newbie then i think you should go with clown fishs and a tang because you have a big tank and tangs are build for speed ^^ dont forget janitors and few other fishs that will do good with them