Debate

[searcyb]

I want to know if anyone out there shares the same thoughts about setting up a fish tank that can house both africans and americans together. I know there is the debate that africans want harder water with a higher pH but I think that really is not the case. I know that my oscars will do just fine if I add to their 125 gal tank some africans.

I really am just curious if anyone has ever tried this and had a major problem.

:feedback:

[Peanut_Power]

No, because Africans annoy the heck outa me...lol...great fish...just not for me. But really...you shouldn't mix fish from two completely different continents. There are so many problems just askin to happen. Water conditions are for the most part very different dependin on location, gestures and coloring mean different things, size and attitude, so many things stand out to me as to why you shouldn't keep them together. Not to mention that it also looks kinda tacky! Its plain to see to even a non-fish keeper that you have two very different kinds of fish in the same tank that shouldn't be together...

[sleepyflight]

I don't see anything wrong with it. There are lots of Africans that can look drab at a decent size (or normal compared to an Amer.) that will look good later and practically blend in....There are species from both also that either do and/or don't have metallic looks. Always a way to do things tastefully. If you like it why not....but I don't see a problem with mixing as long as you understand what you're doing. :headbang2

[Peanut_Power]

Biggest problem is the pH and hardness...most CA/SA cichlids can adjust to harder waters....and higher pH...i don't know about africans goin to softer, lower pH waters. Also, colors and gestures mean totally differen things....so one fish might be showing submission while the other fish thinkz its aggression..not kewl....lol....

[sleepyflight]

In that sense I say water qual. not an issue then....make it closer to the less tolerant fish. I've done this before and haven't even noticed any behavior problems with aggression either.

[Peanut_Power]

What cichlids? I'm assumin not to many of the larger CA/SA cichlids..ie pike cichlids/pbass.....seems like that would be a bit of a lunch problem...:P

[piranha45]

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=46300&postcount=15

[Peanut_Power]

so what r you saying? :P

[piranha45]

that we need to save the gray whales before they go extinct

[Peanut_Power]

what about the blue? or the baleen? Or the wright?

[piranha45]

blue whales killed my family. Right whales are conceited.

[Peanut_Power]

HATER!!

[RhomBeusBoi]

Aight, listen up, yo.....now before you startin hatin' check it out, aight...there should be no probs....they will deal with it...but check this...if you are runnin a tight setup that is locked down...and have say Tanganyika's then no. they are finicky and weak. i wouldnt mix...but if you have some haps and want to do it I say go for it. theyre both mostly carnivorous by nature and can both throw down oldskool when it comes to bouts....

but check this...if you have mbuna and want to mix in some JD's or firemouths or GT's or whatever then go for it. you'll be aight... but remember not only are PH usually higher for Malawi's @ around8.4 8.6 their intestinal tracts and digestive systems cant handle high protein diets that SA's crave. They get bloat real easy, dogg. As far as the water goes, most LFS sell fish that are all on the same filtration and its kept neutral because theres so many different species they hold....just use tap water that comes out and they will adjust. dont try and manage ph. you will cause more damage trying to keep it in check at a certain level because it may fluctuate from your own doings.... its easier to keep it tap,yo.

So check it....you'll get away with it. but you risk decreasing their life span. I think the nutrition and feeding habits are where the most probs are gonna cause you.....and just cause their happy, dont mean what your doing by housing them is right. mbuna are mainly omnivorous grazers and like brine shrimp as maybe 10-16 percent of their diet and should mostly be all the protein they get...the rest should be from plankton, krill, lettuces and maybe spirulina flake.....or spirulina enriched food.....also pellets are tight somemtes too...


just keep it real, and your fish will be locked down...know what I'm sayin' dogg....


peace

[Peanut_Power]

Oh man...i was having a hard time not laughin while i read that post bro! Pimp...you spelled it down to the last letta! LOL!

[allvol]

i would say yes how many africans and sa/ca are actually breed over here in the same water conditions. i have had a yellow lab with my americans for 2 yrs no problems.

[repair]

:22_yikes: I can't understand anything you just said.....LOL I agree that if you have a "tight" setup you will be ok.

I have all kinds of cichlids together but the key is water quality and tank size. I have 3 red devils (11", 6",7") 1 green sevrum (7") 2 bumble bees (6") 1 chocholate cichlid (7") a gobie (10") gold chinese algee eater (6") 2 polypomus (9") 4 pecocks (6") 4 Zebras (6") 2 comon plecos (10",18") 2 clawed frogs (4",6") 1 comp. (7") 1 Yellow lab (5") 1 electric blue alie and 4 or 5 others in a 265 gal tank and have no problems so it can be done.

The tank has one alpha fish ( blue zebra ) and 3 under alphas so the tank is kind of 3 zones . all fish can swim anywhere in the tank but depending on where the are will depend on who is bossy.

[RhomBeusBoi]

Thanks doggs.....its true they can be chill in the same crib...in fact some homies actually use mbuna as dither/target fish in there sa/ca tanks.....mbuna are very fast swimmers and will swim circles around lethargic SA's...mbuna are fierce, especially in packs...they will throw down with the best...seiously, yo, I would say mbuna are like gang members...and it has nothing to do with them bein' african...thats just a coincidence...

peace

[DeLgAdO]

lol, rhoms a homie

yo peanut

don't know about africans goin to softer, lower pH waters

check this out

http://www.aquahobby.com/tanks/e_tank0411.php

[RhomBeusBoi]

lol, rhoms a homie


It's a way of lyfe, dogg. If you aint fast, you betta be furious....know what I'm sayin', D

[repair]

Word

[PeacockBass]

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!!!


Whats even funnier is the E-thug seems to know a bit.


LOOOOOOL!!!

[twinturbo]

lols i didn't read the whole thing but do wanna add my 2 cents about water conditions. I/we always hear to NOT mix them due to them originating fr diff water bodies (& therefore diff conditions). to dat I wanna add, who cares!!! the only water condition dat the aquarist should worry about is fr their tap! can the 2 live comfortably fr the water in ur tap??? daz all dat matters.

but I would never mix them, I don't care for africans.

[PeacockBass]

please, tell me how GH and PH effect the fishes body.

If you cannot scientifically answer this, then you should not post.

[RhomBeusBoi]

I/we always hear to NOT mix them due to them originating fr diff water bodies (& therefore diff conditions). to dat I wanna add, who cares!!! .
Well its like this...most if not ALL da fish you encounter in your common lfs are not only "farm bred" but INBRED as hell...especially tha real popular species like yellow labs...they mus be tha most inbred of dem african species...to the point to where they are stupid fish....just watchin' them and you say, yo, thats a stupid fish dogg....but they are cute and colorful and.. expensive...where theres tha demand theres gonna be some drama yo.....and hybridized inbred "assorted africans" are a tight example...those fish are so f'ed that tha breeders have no f'in idea what they're keepin, yo....so they cant sell them under a specific name cuz there isnt one. . .and assorteds aint like a flowerhorn, cuz as much as I am against hybrids... those are blingin' .....


so basically to add to that quote above.....lakes have nothin to do with it...all they know is the water they were raised in...and the older and bigger and more inbred they get..the more they are gonna start to depend on those neutral conditions...like I mean that if your shizz is tight and you bring home a real old/big african from the lfs.. and assuming you got proper ph and hardness... they may not do well and die....or be stressed while they get acclimated to the higher and harder waters....jus get 'em young, dogg...and that applies to tha ladies too....aint nuttin better than a hot young ass...the only ones you really gotta worry about is tangs...they like really warm oxygenated water and are weak..

peace

[guppy]

Peace, but what about the whales?

[sleepyflight]

This is getting monotonous..... Ok, some things we've went over in the past.
1) We all (I believe) agreed at one time that if the pH is w/in the rhelm of almost as low as 6 up to 8.5+or so....most that I believe to be experienced here....we all agreed that you shouldn't bother messing with the pH.

2) The general hardness of the water more or less can be somewhat compared to having electrolytes in the human body. Some things work better or the body might be used to one mineral in the water. Either way there are substitutions for things.

3) Most lfs I've seen here and everywhere else have everything they own/sell on the same system, which means that they all have the same hardness, pH, temp (unless chilled comet tank) etc.

Honestly I think this is more of an opinion than anything. Maybe some slightly better accomodating conditions tailored to the fishes origin may slightly extend its life but probably not significant....$hit happens right, so pick your battles. Peacock kinda bluntly laid it out that I can probably guess that most here still don't have a perfect understanding of pH and GH from seeing some of the old threads. Rephrasing/restating, the water conditions can easily suit both make that a moot point, reason being that this is more of an opinion and not a factual debate.

Maybe I'm wrong but I've had mixed tanks practically since I started 6 yrs back in some way shape or form. Not boasting about my seemingly insignificant experience of 6 yrs compared to some of the other members buttttt..... I've never had a problem and there are definately tanks doing well that are mixed. All an opinion I say. Can we not call it a debate anymore?? All I'm seeing is opinions....I can visualize steam coming out of Peacocks ears just because he wants to spew some facts....please do!! That would make this a debate.

[Peanut_Power]

just a side note..i wish there was an up arrow so it would quickly go to the top instead of having to scroll...lol

[searcyb]

well thanks for all the input I was just sick of hearing that you could not mix the two together. I am a big fan of the africans and I believe that they will be a good addition to my tank.

[piranha45]

well thanks for all the input I was just sick of hearing that you could not mix the two together. I am a big fan of the africans and I believe that they will be a good addition to my tank.
Good choice, and yes I'd tell anyone who says otherwise to stick it.

[RhomBeusBoi]

no steam here, dogg . .I think some people need these kind of threads so they can form their own opinions and through tryin sh*t out at home they can become a more experienced hobbiest...with that said...jus cause some fellas are type some sh*t don't mean they should or are going to believe us or doesnt mean they know who they should listen to...as long as their is no direspect I think a lot can be learned from threads like deze....so what if it's redundant....who cares, yo...

I say do it, bro...its your tank and if you want those fish in there its all you, dogg...but if you lose one so what.. you will have learned...let us know whats up, aight..


peace.

[phene4grene420]

yo, thats a stupid fish dogg

where can i get one of these fish dogs?

[piranha45]

I want a fish dogg too!

[Peanut_Power]

Geez this thread is gettin old....