5 silvers in a 1000 gallon?

[wizzin]

I finally found a local source for silvers at $9.99 each (just off the yolk) and my glass guy looks like he's finally coming through (8'x39") so the 1000 gallon is only a little ways off now. The wife is sold on the idea, and actually supportive. The entire purpose of this thing is to try to rais a couple silvers from babies to ????. So, I've read a whole lot, and it seems that a few would do ok in a 1000 gallon. What do you guys think?

[DeLgAdO]

I finally found a local source for silvers at $9.99 each (just off the yolk) and my glass guy looks like he's finally coming through (8'x39") so the 1000 gallon is only a little ways off now. The wife is sold on the idea, and actually supportive. The entire purpose of this thing is to try to rais a couple silvers from babies to ????. So, I've read a whole lot, and it seems that a few would do ok in a 1000 gallon. What do you guys think?

whats the height?

8'x39'' is the footprint right?

5??????

go for 8 :)

[rottbo]

it can work i have had as amany as 25 small silvers in one tank and three large ones together there was alittl chasing but they got along just fine especially if you raise them all together from babies there should not be a prob

[rottbo]

wouold have to be 62" tall to be a 1000 so are you sure that your numbers are right???

[wizzin]

sorry. Tank dims are: 9' long x 4' wide x 4' high but water height would be less than 4'. The glass is 8' long x 39" high x 1" thck laminated. So around 1000. The 4' width was important to me to give them good swimming area. I'll start to post pics soon. I have to move a current 55gal setup and build a new terrarium for a turtle then I can start the big one.

[rottbo]

5 would be fine in that... acrylic at that size is about half the price of glass atleast around me it is plus acrylic will not distort the light passing through it and give you a better view of your fish especially when they are 4' away normal glass at that distance will appear to give you water a green tint to it unless you get low Fe (iron) glass also know as "starfire" glass

[wizzin]

glass was free. BTW. He has 5 pieces. Here are the specs he gave me. I was going to take it all, but that will take up a LOT of space!

Hey Phil,

Here are the final sizes. As always allow enough tolerances in your system to allow at least 1/4" plus or minus on these sizes.
We have:

1@ 39-3/4" x 103-1/2"
3@ 39-1/2" x 107-7/16"
1@ 39-1/2" x 111-3/8"

The overall glass thickness is a nominal 1" inch.

Let me know which ones you want. Thanks, Don

[rottbo]

I would of kept all of them that stuff is expensive!!!!!!! I would of course choose the biggest one... 1" should be good on all of those sizes.....I wish I was closer I would hit ya up for one of those pieces

[wizzin]

I've gotten him a lot of work in the past, so he owes me a little favor. The glass came from a bank awning, that the bank decided to use a fabric system in the end. They paid for the glass and told him to keep it. He has a ton of glass laying around, and he offered me several other sizes/thicknesses. I wanted big though.

The idea is to try to get some breeders...

[rottbo]

Yeah I am hoping to get my silvers breeding eventually... but it will take a while i am sure... plus I am gonna seperate a pair when i see one forming...

[awesum]

i had 6 aro's in my tank

four 24" silvers, one 24" black, one 16" red tail gold and one 12" red tail gourami in a 240 gallon 8' x 2' x 2' with no fighting but a lot of splashing when it comes to feeding time.

at one time i had a green arowana in there too. until his gill started to curl, so i gave it away to someone who can deal with the surgery every other month.

now my tank is less crowded and my folks are no longer complaining about the water splashing all over the place.

your 1000 gallon should be perfect.

[Princley]

HOLD on here we r missing the BIG POINT he said he has wife's .. OK ..... i what i want to know is how many times did he take her out to eat this week to get this OK ...
lol sounds cool man

[wizzin]

HOLD on here we r missing the BIG POINT he said he has wife's .. OK ..... i what i want to know is how many times did he take her out to eat this week to get this OK ...
lol sounds cool man

LOL... She's very cool. I lover her to death. She had a 540 saltwater setup on her own before I even met her, so she shares the fish passion with me.

[davo]

thats always useful. 5 adult silvers would look awesome. awesum, would love to see some pics of that!

[wizzin]

thats always useful. 5 adult silvers would look awesome. awesum, would love to see some pics of that!

I'm going to post pics of the whole adventure. I can't wait to get the thing up and running.

[fishcatch22]

I'm going to post pics of the whole adventure. I can't wait to get the thing up and running.sounds awesome. do post pics!

[rottbo]

I know and get all the pieces of glass and hold onto them you will be happy you did in the future because once you get one of these huge tanks you WILL want another

[downset21]

LOL... She's very cool. I lover her to death. She had a 540 saltwater setup on her own before I even met her, so she shares the fish passion with me.

i have to lie. i order my stingrays when my girlfriend goes to her sister's, and try to make them arrive on days she's out... when she comes home and sees more stingrays, (and next week my black aro), i say my LFS cut me a huge deal... or that one had a baby... i feel like a drug addict hiding my habit... anyways, cant wait to see pics of this tank... you gonna throw anything else in it? and how about filtration.

[Opiate]

go for it mate..and post pics when it's all done!! :thumbsup:

[cichlid savage]

Make it happen! Go for it! Should be more than enough space to keep the aggression down.

[wizzin]

I haven't decided on filtration. It's either a pond canister filter or a DIY like the 1000 gallon on the cichlid forum.

I plan on only keeping aros, some plecos if they survive, maybe some tinfoils.

I plan on getting the lumber next weekend. I've been busting my tail doing side jobs and I've earned more than enough to fund the project. Coordinating delivery on the glass is the current task. I'm going tomorrow to check out the LFS's 30" silver and see what else they have to blow money on :headbang2

[rottbo]

diy your own filter its way cheaper i diyed the filter for all the ponds and tanks in my basment and it keeps about 1000 gallons of water clear as drinking water....

[Joshy]

This is fantastic, im going to be hooked up to this topic for a long time, it is similar to what i have in the pipe line in the not so distant future. Of course my term of 'not so distant future' may seem like an eternity to some lol.

Five would be perfect for that set up i recon.

As for tank mates, a few common plecs will certainly survive and flourish.
To fill up the middle area, tinfoils are great providing you don’t mind the clash of location. When i say that i mean that silver aros and tinfoils being from different locations in the world. So it would not be a Amazon setup, more of a 'mix of monsters'.
If you are not a plec fan, maybe some nice big rays if filtration will permit?

As for filtration, i recon it depends on personal taste and heating.
Wet/Drys are cheaper if you like to DIY, and you can place your heaters in there so your tank is clutter free.
However a pond filter is more convenient in maintenance and setup, however it means you would need to plonk your heaters in the tank.
Saying that though, I would imagine it would be more cost effective to heat the whole room rather than just the tank with tank heaters?

[downset21]

go for the rays... with silver dollars or something as dithers.... RAYS RAYS RAYS

[Joshy]

I considered mentioning silver dollars.
But they would only be ditchers while the arowanas are young.
I imagine that eventually the arowanas will get to a size where they will comfortably shallow any silver dollars in one gulp, whole.

Rays would look fantastic if your filtration will permit. Though you will need good filtration for 5 silver arowanas alone..

[rottbo]

I have been thinkin if putting my 6 large redhooks in with my aros but am worried about the same thing even though my aro is a pansy and doesnt like large food I guess its the rays that worry me the most

[Joshy]

Indeed, redhooks get larger than your average silver dollar.
Do you think that if you raised redhooks in a pond/large tank from a young age, and fed them well, they would reach their max/natural size?
I recon if you can get redhook dollars to the 10-12 inch mark they should be more than safe.

[dr_sudz]

:drool: I love the red hook and ray/arowana idea, thats actually what I am planning for when I get my 400 up and running.

[rottbo]

my redhooks grew up in member HARLEYK's 240 (I believe thats the size I know it is big) and they are atleast 7"

[wizzin]

There are ups and downs to both filter methods. My biggest concern is that the filter be very efficient, and I have slight concerns about my ability to build something that will be efficient enough to perform the proper job. That's why I was leaning toward a slightly over sized pond filter. The location of the tank in my house is my finished basement. I plan on insulating the walls of the tank and by heating, I think I have a creative way of hiding the heaters (you'll see ;) ).

If not the pond pump, then it's this DIY. If the link doesn't work, it's page 36 of the 1122.0 gallon tank thread on the cichlid forum. You'll have to register there to view the pics though.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=103294&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=525

I was going to match this to the "T". Similar tank size and cheap to build. It then allows you to hide the heaters in the "cans". I've got some time to decide. Depends on budget and my confidence in the design.

This is the pond filter I was thinking about. It's just rated for 1000 gallons, but changes it every 2 hours. http://www.macarthurwatergardens.com/Aqua-Ultraviolet/ultima-1000.shtml

cost isn't out of budget...

[Joshy]

This was the very first topic I posted in when joining MFK!
Any updates or pictures Wizzin?

[ethnics]

i jus wanna kno why only 5 silvers? i have 3 in my tank. it takes long for them to get big. if it were my 1k gallon tank. i'd put like 30 silvers in side. n as they grow sell some off. but with 1k gallons i think i'd end up keepin like 10 adults atleast. i've seen people with 10 in like 600gal tanks.

[Joshy]

There are a number of reasons ethnics...

The main one being personal choice and judgement. Most people like to dedicate 200 gallons per arowana...especially considering their aggression and size…
While a tank/pond as big as 1,000 gallons needs filtration to match, which can not always be matched. So such owners have to settle for less than rated filtration. This means he would not be able to go overboard on stocking, and stock to the same rate as you do for smaller tanks.

That is the two main reasons…there are loads of other smaller ones as well. Such as the cost of 30 silver arowanas! And then the cost of feeding as many!

I think most people agree that 6 was the wise number of arowanas for this size setup…am I right?

[ethnics]

agree smee lol. if u can afford a 1000gal tank, buying the fish to put in it should not be a problem. and again if u can afford a tank like this, and a filter system for a tank like this. feeding them should be the last of ur worries. expensive maybe but not one of ur worries when ur already dedicating urself to a tank of this size. at 10 bux a piece, 300 dollars on fish wont be anything compared to the amount he will spend on water, water changes n so forth. just my opinion. a 1000gal tank that aint even stocked will be boring as crap.

[Joshy]

I see where you are coming from, and of course you need to be fully dedicated if you are going to set up a large tank, and that includes financially.
However, just because hard working sods like ourselves who are not in prime financial situations, save up for a long time to get a tank so large. It does not mean we have to have the money for top filtration and stocking and feeding.

You own two good sized silvers… so you will know how much they eat, so multiply one of their feeding habits by 30!

i'd put like 30 silvers in side

And why spend more money on something when you do not need to and can enjoy the fish just as much in less numbers? And at the same time, why go against our judgements of stocking just to make it more pleasing to look at. Having a bigger tank does not change the arowanas need for space in a happy cohabitation. Most people here agreed 200 gallons per arowana was good. Not too many people would agree on 33.33 gallons per arowana, regardless of tank size or filtration…

1000gal tank that aint even stocked will be boring as crap

I feel that most would disagree with that. Nothing is better than looking at arowanas stocked properly in ample space. Without having to bump into tank mates or walls. In fact a few gracious arowanas would look better in perfect condition at full size, than 30 crammed arowanas not in peak condition. Numbers are not everything in this hobby…

[ethnics]

i understand and agree. but the hobby also consist of different taste in tank setups. im only 21, i couldn't afford to feed 30 aros lol. but my 2 take a chunk out of my pocket each month trust me. silvers, gars, piranhas = expensive to feed but i knew this b4 i bought the fish.

and maybe most people would disagree. but all u guys go off of books n what not when it comes to silver arowanas. yes silvers need 200gal of space but not at 3". it will be atleast 5 years into arowana keeping til they need the "suggested" 200gal of space per fish. keeping 5 lil 3" aro's in 1000gal of space would not only be weird, but a waste until that 5 year mark is reached. it will be atleast 3 years before the 30 aro's even look at tad bit cramped if at all. i personally think it would be an amazing sight.

[Joshy]

Indeed, totally agreed that such fish cost a small fortune to feed!

However i disagree with the book comment. Obviously everyone builds up knowledge from secondary research first. But i would like to think a lot of people on MKF quote from their own findings and experiences. And it has become common knowledge on here that 200 gallons is the appropriate volume per arowana (from experience).

Indeed, of course if the arowanas are small you could fit a huge amount in a 1,000 gallon.
But most people only buy the amount of fish that they can house once they mature. Most people do not have anywhere to offload 20 growing arowanas. Plus, from my experience and opinion (not a books), it is better to give a young fish its adult room from its early age.

This is really just a split of personal opinions ethnics.

[wizzin]

I had missed a lot of these comments. Some good ones too! I think 5 aros is plenty! I'm not into the overstocked tank look, period. That's the only reason I wouldn't go with more. I would rather see fish with lots of swiming room and happy than to see a ton of fish crammed in a space. I'm still debating on the rest of the stock. I was thinking discus at first, but they're so fragile, I think it would limit what else I can have in there. ATM, I'm thinking Oscars. That would provide a LOT of interest in the lower part of the tank.

One other thing regarding a big tank and filtration, on top of cost for the filter is the sq.ft. req'd for some people's thoughts on how big it should be. I've read some rediculous sizes for w/d's suggested. I think most of them are just WAG's that er on the side of caution to an extreme. I've heard of 15x turnover on tanks recently, which I still think is absurd!!! It used to always be 2x per hour. For 15x turnover on some tanks, you would have a turbid environment, which is not where these fish are from. They're in slow to still moving water. If I put the suggested 15x turnover on this thing, I think I'd have some PO'd aros.

I've been keeping tanks with 2x turnover for around 20 years, and I've always kept 0 wastes readings and kept low nitrates with water changes. This thing will have a constant supply of fresh water at a rate to equal 20% per week, so a 2x or 3x turnover will keep it in check, so long as I keep the stocking down, i.e. 5 aros, not 30.

I have fully investigated the feeding costs, and am more than prepared to keep these buggers too.

[Joshy]

Excellent to finally hear from you again wizzin!
I have been stalking this topic for way to long.

You share the same thoughts as well.
I have also heard some ridiculous turnover rate recommendations lately. Most i have heard is X10. But X4 is more than enough for really really messy fish! X2 being more than perfect for your stocking to water mass ratio.

Pop some pictures up as things progress!
Everything still on plan?

[carman850]

I am also putting 5 Silvers into my 1000G during Christmas. They will have do some growth to catch up. But at 2-3"/month, it won't be long. My cichlids need some dither fish, Silver aros are the best dithers for large tank.

No you don't need 15X turnover rate for a 1000G. I am running 3X, it is just fine.

[wizzin]

Hey Joshy, Yes. I'm still on target. Except that the build funds haven't come in yet. I do side work a lot and it turns around some nice money. The funds for this job were invoiced 20 days ago, and I just talked to their accountant yesterday and she informed me that they couldn't pay me until they get paid, so it could be another 2 weeks.

I posted in the DIY section, so you can see the glass and the design anyway. I'm hoping I get the money before the Christmas break and get the thing mostly built over the holidays. I talked to my LFS last week and he said to just let him know when I'm ready for the fish. I'm getting 3" to 4" fish @ $19.00 each. It will be funny to see 4" aros in 1000gals :D That won't last too long though at their growth rate. I would think they might even grow faster in that much space. As much as you want to see it, I want it done more. I've been wanting this tank for a LONG time. I started thinking about this about 2 years ago when we bought the house. I had been looking at places to put it for a long time. Finally, my wife pointed out the best place for it, which is right in the living area in our basement, so it should be cool to have a big tank where people can see it.

Where are you in the UK? EDIT:OOPS. Essex... My wife and I have been wanting to come over for quite some time now. We were waiting for our little one to get old enough to go too. I was in Ireland 2 years ago, and we were going to slip over to the UK then, but ran out of time. We stayed for 14 days and drove all over from Dublin to Dingle and just about everything in between.

[rottbo]

I have had a job like that before and I was pissed because the general contractor messed up and got fined for going way over the scheduled time so we ended up having to put a lean on the factory that we did work in just to get our money.. now if they cant pay us when we are done we do not do work for them.... You know they hired you not who ever is paying them so they should be able to pay you without being paid from the company.. That is bad business in my book.....

[rottbo]

and I would start your aros out in somethin smaller when that small they might have trouble finding the food in a tank that large and become malnourished I had 25 babies in a 150 and they had way to much room I had to make sure to put food above them all or they wouldnt notice where it was

[wizzin]

I have had a job like that before and I was pissed because the general contractor messed up and got fined for going way over the scheduled time so we ended up having to put a lean on the factory that we did work in just to get our money.. now if they cant pay us when we are done we do not do work for them.... You know they hired you not who ever is paying them so they should be able to pay you without being paid from the company.. That is bad business in my book.....

BELIEVE me, I was not happy when I heard her say that. I'm kinda in a bad place though because I don't have a contract with them so I can't push too hard. I have emails with them directing me to do the work, and agreeing on cost, so if it came right down to it.... The other twist is that it's actually a former employer. I used to work for them before I came to the job I'm at now. I just do some moonlighting for them now and then. I usually get paid within 14 days, but it's usually $1,500 to $2000. This one is $6,700.00. So it's a little more than ususal, but they should still be able to pay me without having to wait til they get paid.

I was planning on getting the block this weekend, so I'm a little PO'd at the moment.

[rottbo]

yeah well as long as you have the Email with the agreement on it and you are a legitimate company you can place a lean on whatever property you did the work on.. and this will ensure that you get paid..... I hope that it all works out for ya I am very interested tp see how the sanitred goes on and how good it looks I want to order some to do my next big tank... if you were closer to me I could hook ya up on the silvers to because I get a hell of a deal on them.. I wont disclose this info though

[wizzin]

Well, I'm a sole propritor, and the work was just 3d modelling work for a presentation, so I don't think I could lean their building or anything. I know I'll get paid, but from here out, I'm having them sign a contract with a late payment clause. 10% per day late. :naughty:

I was going with black sanitred. Any thoughts?

[rottbo]

hm interesting black might be cool are you only using one coat?? I was gonna get the dark blue

[rottbo]

well if the building ever gets built then you could put a lean on it for the design work that you did or even a lean against the company you did work for it doesnt have to be on a property just against a company.. going against a property just makes the property owner make who ever owes you pay up

[wizzin]

hm interesting black might be cool are you only using one coat?? I was gonna get the dark blue

They suggested 2 coats, though I might do 3. Yeah, it's a toss up between black and dark blue.

[wizzin]

oh, and yes, on the rearing tank, I had to turn a 75gal into a turtle home to make my wife happy, but I was thinking about building the turtle an acrylic terrarium, and then setting up the 75 as a rearing tank and then turning it into a SW tank. It's a 75 gal wide, so it should work.

[rottbo]

I wouls alternate colors just so you will know if anything has scraped through the first layer if you are gonna go balck or blue do a white or tan basecoat then you will be able to see if it is ever getting worn down... just a thought

[rottbo]

yeah baby silvers really dont need that much room you could keep 5 3-4" in a 20 long untill they are closer to 6" then move up to the 75 then once they get upwards of 9" I would go ahead and move them into the 1000

[Joshy]

Well you are living my dream my friend. In many years to come hopefully i will be in a similar position! When you want something for so long, it becomes tedious having to wait on set backs! We all know!

[Joshy]

Where are you in the UK? EDIT:OOPS. Essex... My wife and I have been wanting to come over for quite some time now. We were waiting for our little one to get old enough to go too. I was in Ireland 2 years ago, and we were going to slip over to the UK then, but ran out of time. We stayed for 14 days and drove all over from Dublin to Dingle and just about everything in between.

Although i am only a student i have done a hell of a lot of travelling with the family. Let me give you my 'travelled list', not to boast but to buy your credit in what i am going to say in a minute:
Australia
US (three times)
Cuba (twice)
Eygpt (twice)
Turkey
Cyprus
Spain
All over England

But i would try an talk anyone out of coming to most of the UK on leisure holidays. Do not get me wrong, i love my country, London born and bred. And the UK is a great place to actually live due to the economy and benefits etc (a different matter). In fact although my location is an Essex postcode, i live in a London borough (London borough of Havering). This means London has grown and engulfed my part of Essex (28 years ago i believe). And around here is as close to London apart from being in London itself.

And to be honest, most of it is a **** hole at the moment. He has a graffiti epidemic at the moment, with little 12 year olds running around in hoodies marking their name on everything. In addition, the bins are always empty because people just discard their rubbish on the floor. The traffic is horrible the nearer and near to London you get. You have to expect to lose your wallet or a belonging at some point if in London. And the list really does go on..

And despite all this, London is the one of just two places i would suggest to go.
If you want to stay in a posh and typically British hotel, and do some site seeing of very old buildings with history, spend a week in London (not more than a week).

However if you want to miss out all the terrors listed above, get as far from the cities as possible. If you want to see some spectacular landscape and enjoy what real but depleting Britain is like, go to Scotland.

I can see this possibly turning into a gentle debate or chat.

[wizzin]

Although i am only a student i have done a hell of a lot of travelling with the family. Let me give you my 'travelled list', not to boast but to buy your credit in what i am going to say in a minute:
Australia
US (three times)
Cuba (twice)
Eygpt (twice)
Turkey
Cyprus
Spain
All over England

But i would try an talk anyone out of coming to most of the UK on leisure holidays. Do not get me wrong, i love my country, London born and bred. And the UK is a great place to actually live due to the economy and benefits etc (a different matter). In fact although my location is an Essex postcode, i live in a London borough (London borough of Havering). This means London has grown and engulfed my part of Essex (28 years ago i believe). And around here is as close to London apart from being in London itself.

And to be honest, most of it is a **** hole at the moment. He has a graffiti epidemic at the moment, with little 12 year olds running around in hoodies marking their name on everything. In addition, the bins are always empty because people just discard their rubbish on the floor. The traffic is horrible the nearer and near to London you get. You have to expect to lose your wallet or a belonging at some point if in London. And the list really does go on..

And despite all this, London is the one of just two places i would suggest to go.
If you want to stay in a posh and typically British hotel, and do some site seeing of very old buildings with history, spend a week in London (not more than a week).

However if you want to miss out all the terrors listed above, get as far from the cities as possible. If you want to see some spectacular landscape and enjoy what real but depleting Britain is like, go to Scotland.

I can see this possibly turning into a gentle debate or chat.

I understand. Hey, at least you can get asian aro's right? I think you're describing more of the state of our times than a particular place. Half the major cities in the US are exactly what you describe. I moved 30 miles out of pittsburgh because my house was robbed 5 times in 2 years. They broke the door right off it's hinges. We live in some messed up times right now my friend, no matter where you live, unless you move far out of the cities.

I now travel an hour and 20 minutes to work in the morning and another 1:20 in the evening via bus. It's a lot of stress. I think that's why I love fishkeeping. Takes your mind off things.

[Joshy]

I understand. Hey, at least you can get asian aro's right? I think you're describing more of the state of our times than a particular place. Half the major cities in the US are exactly what you describe. I moved 30 miles out of pittsburgh because my house was robbed 5 times in 2 years. They broke the door right off it's hinges. We live in some messed up times right now my friend, no matter where you live, unless you move far out of the cities.

I now travel an hour and 20 minutes to work in the morning and another 1:20 in the evening via bus. It's a lot of stress. I think that's why I love fishkeeping. Takes your mind off things.

Here here buddy, you speak the words of my mind. It is not just where i live, but it is society these days in more economically developed countries. It is one of the reasons i am so determined to sign up to and train for the police force in the next year and a bit.

I also have the intention of moving away, moving to the true Essex country side or green belt of London. There are no benefits of living in or near a big city these days, except the commute.

Haha it is true, we can get Asian Arowanas, however prices become ridiculously high. Silvers are much more common around here, and even these are few and far between. I guess it is because MonsterFishKeepers themselves are so rare here in Britain at the moment. Most people have their small commercial tanks with their bread-and-butter fish. While the few of us around here feed such bread-and-butter fish to our monsters for snacks!

Be sure to keep us updated on the project, I’ll have keen eyes on this topic!