Coursework Aid (worth reading through)

[Joshy]

Well I at the moment I am studying for my Business & Marketing Higher National Diploma. And a major part of my coursework is now to invent a very unique business idea where there is a clear market niche. And to then produce a Business Plan and preparations for it followed by a presentation.
But a part from those instructions, my collar is loose to pick what ever I want for this business idea. And I have one in mind I think you will all like, but I need some feedback and possibly some information from some of you.

My idea was to purchase and renovate an indoor, in-ground, heated pool. Not a huge Olympic sized one, but of good dimensions (though dimensions are not an issue as of yet).
When I say renovate, I mean clean it perfectly, redo the entire filtration system and make the heating efficient. If the pool purchased was to be an outside pool, then a structure would need to be built around it (again specifics are not necessary yet).

But now to the point you will all love, once the renovation and tweaking is complete, stock it with some of the biggest monster Amazon fish you can think of. Arapaima gigas, pacu, retailed catfish etc.
I think some of you can see where this is going. The service of the business will be allowing customers to visit, snorkel or dive with these huge fish. As well as charging admission onto the premises, equipment could be rented, food to feed the fish could be bought, adoption of a fish and even a café if diversification was needed!

There is obviously tons of planning to go into this, and I may need to make a small model as well as the presentation, should we stick with this coursework. So I am hoping members of MFK will be around to give me advice and comments as the months and planning go on.

So what are your views on this idea so far? Can you see errors that I may have missed? Obviously this is just the feather tickle of the entire project, planning will get more and more in-depth and specific in time.
I get the all clear on the coursework by Wednesday next week. Then the real work starts.

-Josh

[PrehistoricMonsterFish]

I like the idea and good luck with your project in whatever form it eventually takes. One observation however.

- You need to consider the effects of water borne diseases such as fish TB which can be caught by humans

[kakojones]

Don't forget about human filth that would mess up the water params.

[Joshy]

Staff: Haha thank you for moving this.
There’s me trying to get the indoor pond section going, and i go and put this in another forum instead, when it should be there!
Thanks

PrehistoricMonsterFish: I have absolutely no knowledge of water borne illness. Obviously need to put some big research into this. May see a Biology technician tomorrow and ask some questions.

kakojones: I was hoping to overcome contamination from humans by ensuring that all who get in the water wear a full body suit. While i guess an age limit would need to be implemented to stop immature people spitting and peeing. Although i imagine those who want to pay and see these fish would not be that type of person.

[RadleyMiller]

Staff: Haha thank you for moving this.
There’s me trying to get the indoor pond section going, and i go and put this in another forum instead, when it should be there!
Thanks

PrehistoricMonsterFish: I have absolutely no knowledge of water borne illness. Obviously need to put some big research into this. May see a Biology technician tomorrow and ask some questions.

kakojones: I was hoping to overcome contamination from humans by ensuring that all who get in the water wear a full body suit. While i guess an age limit would need to be implemented to stop immature people spitting and peeing. Although i imagine those who want to pay and see these fish would not be that type of person.

Get a crapload of UV sterilizers.

People will do that, I work at a zoo and yell at visitors a lot.

Disney has 2 saltwater tanks for snorkeling. I wonder how they do it.

You might want to put a size restriction on that thing, especially at night.

"You must be this tall so you don't get eaten by the RTC."

[Joshy]

UV sterilizers will be in my equipment list.
Later in the course i am going to have to actually find prices to every piece of equipment (as closely as possible)...so you lot can help me out on good deals with that.

Saltwater is way to complex, and needs way more investment. I intend to start small and simple (how ironic and what a lie).

Haha, I’ll have to keep the RTC nice and fat! I know what you’re saying though, if i got some to 4 foot, it could take a little 3 foot kiddie! Well there goes the insurance up the roof lol.
But to think about it, snorkelling/diving at night would be great, with under water torches!

Such a shame this is only going to be a coursework project :(

[RadleyMiller]

I wasn't saying go Salt, I was just saying Disney has a salt swimming pool with sharks.

[Pyrophile]

First of all Hello fellow Business Major. Are there going to be guides swimming with these people? Somehow I can imagine someone panicking and doing something stupid, hurting a fish or themselves. Also are you going to require they have some sort of training before they do this? I love the adoption idea. The business could also be a rescue for larger fish as well you can use this to cut down on the cost of operating. I would think the start up fee and overheads would be huge though.

[IITUFFTOBEATII]

if you want to get a decent grade I would do one of two things

either find another way for your idea to make revenue (other than charging visitors), or pick a new project.

I hate to sound like a party-pooper but there just isnt a big enough market anywhere to support this kind of thing. For what it would cost initially and to maintain you would need to either charge a lot of money or have a lot of traffic, neither of which are realistic.

someone has to be devils advocate on this one, pick something that will get you a good grade and save this idea for when you get a gov't grant or win the lottery

[khayman218]

if you want to get a decent grade I would do one of two things

either find another way for your idea to make revenue (other than charging visitors), or pick a new project.

I hate to sound like a party-pooper but there just isnt a big enough market anywhere to support this kind of thing. For what it would cost initially and to maintain you would need to either charge a lot of money or have a lot of traffic, neither of which are realistic.

someone has to be devils advocate on this one, pick something that will get you a good grade and save this idea for when you get a gov't grant or win the lottery
I would pay $50 to give it a shot (maybe $75). If you get 1-2 people going each day (convince a few of the local schools to bring classes by, affiliate yourself with one of those adventure groups and let people practice before flying to the amazon, host weddings, etc, etc). You could be making $30k annually which might cover all of the maintenance.

Then you do it the American way: overpriced cafe and loads of souveniers that somehow people buy. Also, adopt a fish (like you said), get subsidies from the state for taking on abandoned/injured animals. There are lots of ways to make money off of it.

I would be very reluctant to say that it couldn't work. It's a fun idea and, if marketed correctly, could easily make money. I mean, I see stores that sell exclusively wicker furniture open for decades.... who the heck buys that much wicker furniture?! If those stores are open, an Amazonian mini-theme park had better be able to make it.

[IITUFFTOBEATII]

I would pay $50 to give it a shot (maybe $75). If you get 1-2 people going each day (convince a few of the local schools to bring classes by, affiliate yourself with one of those adventure groups and let people practice before flying to the amazon, host weddings, etc, etc). You could be making $30k annually which might cover all of the maintenance.

Then you do it the American way: overpriced cafe and loads of souveniers that somehow people buy. Also, adopt a fish (like you said), get subsidies from the state for taking on abandoned/injured animals. There are lots of ways to make money off of it.

I would be very reluctant to say that it couldn't work. It's a fun idea and, if marketed correctly, could easily make money. I mean, I see stores that sell exclusively wicker furniture open for decades.... who the heck buys that much wicker furniture?! If those stores are open, an Amazonian mini-theme park had better be able to make it.


30K wouldnt even cover the insurance costs

[khayman218]

30K wouldnt even cover the insurance costs


I am not sure that is the case. My peer's medical malpractice insurance (one of the most notoriously high insurance rates) is often only a bit over double that. But I am not an insurance agent, so I cannot be sure how much insurance for a business like that would cost.

Additionally, I did say to do it the American Way. That also includes making everyone sign a waiver that releases you from all responsibility. Often you can still get in a legal battle despite having the person waive their right to sue; however, in the situation where the person is voluntarily getting into a pool with large predatory fish, one could expect such a legal battle to be short and one-sided.

[gomezladdams]

Maybe a few "people bowls" in the pool.A glass or acrylic bowl for the visitors to get into so they can view the monsters without getting in the water.Or even a tunnel.Would make the school field trips more feasable.:popcorn:

[IITUFFTOBEATII]

I am not sure that is the case. My peer's medical malpractice insurance (one of the most notoriously high insurance rates) is often only a bit over double that. But I am not an insurance agent, so I cannot be sure how much insurance for a business like that would cost.

Additionally, I did say to do it the American Way. That also includes making everyone sign a waiver that releases you from all responsibility. Often you can still get in a legal battle despite having the person waive their right to sue; however, in the situation where the person is voluntarily getting into a pool with large predatory fish, one could expect such a legal battle to be short and one-sided.

waivers dont excuse businesses from having insurance, whether or not a person voluntarily exposes themselves to a high risk environment doesnt matter, the owner is still ultimately responsible.

the monterey bay aquarium charges $25 for general admission and has relatively high traffic, I doubt that they ever generate enough revenue to break even, without government funding these types of destinations wouldnt exist.

Joshy,

Before pursuing this furthur I would try to find any type of attraction like this that is privately owned and makes a profit. I like the idea, and i would visit if it were convenient, but i still think that its not a good idea for a class project, it will never make money..... pick something easier and spend your time doing something you enjoy instead of doing homework

[khayman218]

waivers dont excuse businesses from having insurance, whether or not a person voluntarily exposes themselves to a high risk environment doesnt matter, the owner is still ultimately responsible.




Now that, I know for a fact is incorrect. Do you think you can sue a sky-diving company if you break your leg on the landing? It is almost impossible for a sky-diving company to obtain liability insurance and, in the vast majority of cases, the courts have upheld the liability waivers as binding legal contracts.

In fact, in many cases a waiver can even protect the business in situations where it has been negligent. Recently, that question has come up again (and will soon be before the California Supreme Court concerning a disabled girl who drowned in a city-owned pool) but the case is claiming there was "gross negligence" and that legal action against that level of negligence cannot be waived.

So, unless you are grossly negligent (which is, unfortunately, going to be a subjective determination by a jury in the worst case scenario and would probably involve you smothering a small child in bait before tossing him in:popcorn:) liability waivers have been to courts many times and have almost always successfully defended the business.

[IITUFFTOBEATII]

Now that, I know for a fact is incorrect.

okay, a waiver might excuse the the business from being responsible for the individual that signed the waiver, however the business would still be required to have insurance. What about the wife or kids of the guy who tagged along to take pictures of the guy who signed the waiver? Accidents happen and thats why you have insurance.

khayman, joshy, this is merely one aspect of the whole project and I stand by what I have said from the start, it will never make a profit

[khayman218]

it will never make a profit

I bet that has been said about every good idea that we all think "Gosh, I could have done that." Google, all those social networking sites, any of that junk you see on QVC.

I am not saying it certainly will be profitable, but I am definitely not saying it never will be. Emphatically claiming it will never be profitable without a significant analysis seems a bit foolhardy. Some people take the leap and end up millionaires and some end up broke. One way the naysayers are slapping their foreheads and the other way they waggle their finger saying "I told you so." [Insert additional rhetoric on pursuing your dream, taking a chance and living life to the fullest.] In my experience, it's usually best to ignore them.

[IITUFFTOBEATII]

Emphatically claiming it will never be profitable without a significant analysis seems a bit foolhardy. .


Doesn't really require significant analysis, just a little common sense. most new businesses fail within the first 5 years, and there isnt a single aquarium that can stay open without state and/or federal money..... Based on that i'm willing to go with the odds, it will never make money.

[Dr Joe]

Well I at the moment I am studying for my Business & Marketing Higher National Diploma. And a major part of my coursework is now to invent a very unique business idea where there is a clear market niche. And to then produce a Business Plan and preparations for it followed by a presentation.
But a part from those instructions, my collar is loose to pick what ever I want for this business idea. And I have one in mind I think you will all like, but I need some feedback and possibly some information from some of you.

My idea was to purchase and renovate an indoor, in-ground, heated pool. Not a huge Olympic sized one, but of good dimensions (though dimensions are not an issue as of yet).
When I say renovate, I mean clean it perfectly, redo the entire filtration system and make the heating efficient. If the pool purchased was to be an outside pool, then a structure would need to be built around it (again specifics are not necessary yet).

But now to the point you will all love, once the renovation and tweaking is complete, stock it with some of the biggest monster Amazon fish you can think of. Arapaima gigas, pacu, retailed catfish etc.
I think some of you can see where this is going. The service of the business will be allowing customers to visit, snorkel or dive with these huge fish. As well as charging admission onto the premises, equipment could be rented, food to feed the fish could be bought, adoption of a fish and even a café if diversification was needed!

There is obviously tons of planning to go into this, and I may need to make a small model as well as the presentation, should we stick with this coursework. So I am hoping members of MFK will be around to give me advice and comments as the months and planning go on.

So what are your views on this idea so far? Can you see errors that I may have missed? Obviously this is just the feather tickle of the entire project, planning will get more and more in-depth and specific in time.
I get the all clear on the coursework by Wednesday next week. Then the real work starts.

-Josh

Interesting concept...I'd run with it. What's your grade going to be like if you prove over-all it won't work? Since you've done all the leg work there should still be a good grade there.

How does this sort of thing fare in England?

Don't let IITUFFTOBEATII get you down...we may not see things the same way here in the states as you do there.

.

Doesn't really require significant analysis, just a little common sense. most new businesses fail within the first 5 years, and there isnt a single aquarium that can stay open without state and/or federal money..... Based on that i'm willing to go with the odds, it will never make money.

Ok , IITUFFTOBEATII lighten up a little, this is an exercise...like learning you math tables.

Most new businesses? Last time I checked the percentages were a little better than that (and those figures include all the ill conceived small businesses too).

Josh have you heard of http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Shop_10151_-1_10001 it's a private company. They have several large tanks at most stores with native fish. They give fishing lessons and have cafe' set up by the tanks for people to watch the fish. 39 stores open and another 15 opening. Also checkout http://www.cabelas.com/ 19 open and another dozen on the rise. These are just glorified hunting & tackle shops...multi-million dollar hunting & tackle shops. Who would have thought an area so small could support so many high dollara stores...after all it's only for recreation.

As far as government support, there's a city run aquarium that had been around for about 100yrs that just closed down because the mayor needed to find funds to support other projects he promised during his candidacy even tho the majority voted to keep it open (88%)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belle_Isle_Aquarium .

Never give up-Never say die...

Keep us posted and we'll try to help where we can, there are a few of us that understand and/or work with commercial systems here.

Dr Joe

.

[IITUFFTOBEATII]

Don't let IITUFFTOBEATII get you down...we may not see things the same way here in the states as you do there.

Ok , IITUFFTOBEATII lighten up a little, this is an exercise...like learning you math tables.

.


I'm as light as a feather :)

I'm just trying to add a little bit of objectiveness to the thread. I never said I didnt like the idea itself, I just think that its a bad idea for a project in a business class. Most people here are saying to go for it because thier bias causes them to like the idea, the instructor is most likely not going to be on the same page. If its a business class I think its in Joshys best interest to pick a topic that will earn him a good grade. With that being said, I like the the bass pro shops and cabelas reference, that might be a good way to go; to have a retail shop with the dive tank as a side attraction

[Dr Joe]

Sometimes you have to show how a relatively good idea that people think is cool can actually fail or they'll never know and they will end up a statistic in the failed column.

I myself don't particularly want to go swimming with fish that could put my whole foot (or more) in they're mouth (and I swim in the gulf/Florida :screwy: ), but I love to watch native fishes that big swimming.

Well, I guess we'll know next week what the prof. says.

Dr Joe

.

[fishdance]

I suggest you go LOW TECH to start off with. By this I mean dont go for large tanks with South American monsters, instead go for knee high wadding ponds full of super tame fish you can handfeed. Koi and catfish and perhaps hundreds of algae eaters. In Japan for example people pay money to dangle their feet over coffee have their feet nibbled on by fish. Its mostly a novelty to remember and talk about but it is prompted as a way to remove dead skin!! ie Pushed as a health thing.

The other obvious advantage besides huge setup cost savings is you will be able to attract a much wider demographic. Oldies, young kids, people who cant swim, etc. People can do this in an hour as opposed to a half day if going underwater is involved. And if your setup fee is small, your entrance fees can be small too and you do need repeat business to make it a success.

If/when this phase gets off the ground successfully, you can expand.