Hydrocynus sp. Tiger fish clarification [Archive]

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fugupuff

11-20-2005, 2:48 AM

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9789

for more pictures follow this thread, it will be my designated goliath vs vittatus and other tiger thread. Let us come to this subject with an open heart and mind, and accept different points of views. Everyone can put their tiger fish info., pictures, experiences here, maybe mods can clean it up just a bit too...this will be fun :)

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9789

freshwaterstingrays

11-20-2005, 7:35 PM

wow!

tigerfangs

11-21-2005, 2:54 AM

African Tigerfish
Hydrocynus goliath (Boulenger, 1898)

Temperament: Aggressive
Sociability: Groups
Min. Tank: 900 gallons
Availability: Rare
Area: Middle

Largest of the Characins, the African Tigerfish is big, powerful, and well armed, thus making it among the worlds most sought after gamefish. It lives in the open rivers and streams of central and northern Africa. The impression one gets from viewing these fish, is one of awe, terror, and mystery, not unlike the feeling of watching a Great White Shark.

This fish is basically an enlarged version of a Tetra. All of the fins are pointed, there is an adipose fin, the scales are large for a Characin, and the mouth and dentention are extremely well developed. The teeth are designed and look like knives. Each tooth fits in a socket between each tooth, allowing the teeth to mesh like cutting sheers. All teeth are seen all the time even when the mouth is completely shut. The entire body is sleek and designed for speed.

Horizontal unbroken black bands run along the entire body, hence the name Tigerfish. The rest of the body is usually a silver-white-grey, however there is usually a metallic orange or yellow sheen. Many specimens have various blue to green pigmented scales.

One of the most fearsome predators freshwater has ever known, the Tigerfish has a viscious reputation. These fish hunt in large packs, just as their South American counterparts, the Piranhas do. Prey consist primarily of other fish, but just about anything alive can fall prey to the Tigerfish. Like the Piranha, prey is eaten away bite by bite. Because they have razor sharp knife-like teeth, and extremely strong jaw muscles, they are among the few fish that can turn the tables on prey the same size or larger than themselves. There are unverified reports of attacks on humans.

This fish is probably entirely unsuitable for captivity because they are enormous, and require a huge body of water to support them. Nothing under 900 gallons is suitable. For tankmates, the only fish that won't be torn to pieces are other individuals of the same size. Aquarium furnishings would only be a hinderence.

Live foods are a must, particularly live fish. Once the tigerfish gets used to captivity it might except lean meat like beef heart. It is not advisable to stick your bare hands or other appendage into the tank containing this potentially dangerous or even deadly fish.

Keep the water extremely well-aerated and moving, with a neutral to alkaline pH at a temperature between 75 to 84 degrees F.

Breeding is rare in captivity. Only H. vittatus has been known to spawn in the aquarium. It is a smaller species, reaching three feet in length.

The importation of these fish must be considered rare and exceptional. If you somehow get a hold of one, you will have something special, a perfect machine devised by nature for one purpose.

Family: Alestiidae
Type: Characins
Distribution: Rivers and lakes of Africa
Max Size: 72"
pH: Slightly Alkaline
Temperature: 76-84° F.
Diet: Carnivorous

The above was copied from Aquaria Central.

There seems to be at least four species of ATF.

Hydrocynus Goliath........over 5'
Hydrocynus Vittatus.......over 3'
Hydrocynus Tanzaniae...3'
Hydrocynus Brevis.........the smallest, not exceeding 30"

H. Vittatus was formerly called H. Forskahlii, same fish.

PERSONAL EXPERIENCE

These are truely specialized predators. They are extremely fast swimmers that need lots of space to safely maneuver. I know the above states min. 900g, but I don't believe that as being the rule. A 360g tank is sufficient to keep one Vittatus or other striped variety. For Goliath, I agree, 900g being min. Keep lids closed and weighted down as these are accomplished jumpers.

Growth rate is slow (6-9" per year). So if you have a 180g tank, and were to purchase a 3" specimen, you could get away with it for about a year, maybe a little bit more. Because these are normally very nervous and flighty fish in their juvenile to adolecence, at 1' they may start to bash themselves into the walls of a 2' wide tank. It helps if you black out the sides and back of the tank giving only one window to be able to view them. This gives the sense of increased security and therefore lessens spazzing. As they get larger and mature, they seem to settle down quite a bit. Avoid sharp rocks as they can easily injure themselves on them as they speed by. If you are planning to keep more than one, adding some obstructions such as driftwood may help against aggression by breaking up territory and providing cover. Plastic plants also work well. Providing clean, well areated water is a essential. Current is recommended especially as they get larger and require higher levels of oxygen.

As for temperament, they are aggressive predators, not all out brawlers. They are very quarrelsome amongst each other or anything that resembles them. As juveniles they don't seem to defend themselves very well against the true fighters such as aggressive cichlids, Jardinis, and even African Pike, etc... and often get bullied or killed by such. That timidness disappears as they get larger. It seems as though they know that they possess some real weapons. There have been many incidents where good sized ATF has severely lacerated or amputated the rear portion of a tankmate out of a territorial dispute or predation, so choose the tankmates carefully. Sometimes it may be best to wait until the ATF is at least 6-8" before introducing tankmates as many of the fish that would be compatible at a later time grow much quicker and would bully or make a meal of them. Good tankmates include the bichirs (bottom level preds which are also good for cleaning up scraps), larger Synodontis cats (Decorus, Angelicus, Granulosus), large barbs (good dithers ), med to large semi aggressive cichlids (Frontosas, larger Haps Oscars, etc...), Red Hook Silver Dollars, etc...

For food, aside from live fish, they will accept most meaty items (shrimp, smelt, catfish filets, beefheart, etc...).

In conclusion, they are awesome, but not for everyone with a large tank. To be truely successful with ATFs, the tank has to be tailored to them. Its one thing to have a large ATF, its quite another to have a flawless, mint looking large one.

H. Vittatus
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/tigerfangs/ATFs/VittsFeb2005016.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/tigerfangs/ATFs/VittsFeb2005014.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/tigerfangs/ATFs/02FEB2005tigers023.jpg
H. Goliath
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/tigerfangs/Goliath/ATFs_001.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/tigerfangs/Goliath/ATFs_004.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/tigerfangs/Goliath/02FEB2005tigers014.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/tigerfangs/Goliath/Goliathrtsidecloseups16jun006.jpg

Mourinho18

11-21-2005, 2:57 AM

wow man, those teeth are :bling: :D

w3arB3aR

11-21-2005, 3:56 AM

:cool: cool fish dude!! :D
how big are they?

mon

11-21-2005, 6:37 AM

razor sharp teeth they have... oooo

Steve_89

11-21-2005, 6:39 AM

Nice write up bro :)

Hasi

11-21-2005, 7:51 AM

Great read thanks for sharing!

darkemotion

11-24-2005, 2:23 AM

how much is one again? that fish is sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet!:WHOA:

benzjamin13

11-24-2005, 2:27 AM

Sweet :headbang2

pitt.dk

11-24-2005, 4:45 AM

very nice :drool:

freeform

11-24-2005, 4:49 AM

killer teeth :eek:

fugupuff

11-24-2005, 2:23 PM

more real goliath sold in japan

rumblesushi

11-24-2005, 4:24 PM

is it true they can eat things bite by bite? As opposed to a freshwater cuda etc, that just swallow prey whole?

What's the going rate for a 3 inch goliath?

tigerfangs

11-25-2005, 4:39 PM

Definate true Goliath. Yes, they can can and do at times eat things bite by bite. Sweet pics, Wes!

Don't really have a going price on them right now since no one has been able to get any. It would depend on how much the seller pays for them and then sells.

tigerfangs

11-26-2005, 2:11 PM

Alright Wes, enough pics, get some at your store! :D

NurthinAziz

11-26-2005, 6:00 PM

Nice fangs xD

fugupuff

11-26-2005, 8:00 PM

more pictures to come :)

neoprodigy

11-27-2005, 7:50 PM

Playing With Dead ATF.... UP CLOSE...

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/gallery/watermark.php?file=682/medium/DSC05620-x.jpg (http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/gallery/watermark.php?file=682/medium/DSC05620-x.jpg)

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/gallery/watermark.php?file=682/medium/DSC05610-x.jpg (http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/gallery/watermark.php?file=682/medium/DSC05610-x.jpg)

rayman45

11-27-2005, 7:53 PM

YOU KILLER

fugupuff

11-27-2005, 8:28 PM

fugupuff

11-27-2005, 8:31 PM

These fish belong to our member TIGERFANGS: Awesome tank you got there!

neoprodigy

11-27-2005, 8:33 PM

what did you do NEO :P
I need a close up shot.... so i killed it....

fugupuff

11-27-2005, 8:34 PM

One more :) Can you guys see the difference between "goliath" and not so "goliath"?

tigerfangs

11-27-2005, 8:42 PM

Thanks fugu, it was a pleasure having you and g/f over.

Neo, sorry to see that you lost one.

neoprodigy

11-27-2005, 8:46 PM

Thanks fugu, it was a pleasure having you and g/f over.

Neo, sorry to see that you lost one.
hold up.... you didnt invite me over... LOL.....

tigerfangs

11-27-2005, 8:54 PM

I didn't know you'd fly over from the weak, I mean east coast :ROFL: , but if you're in SoCal let me know.

neoprodigy

11-27-2005, 8:58 PM

uggg... are you dissing EAST COASTERS?

tigerfangs

11-27-2005, 9:03 PM

Nah, just messing. I'm originally from Miami, Fl and might end up on the East Coast perminently in about a year.

neoprodigy

11-27-2005, 9:08 PM

ehehhe.... i know... LOL.... welcome home (in one year) LOL

rayman45

11-27-2005, 9:10 PM

YOU CANT KNOCK THE EAST

IM FROM THE EAST

R1_Ridah

11-27-2005, 9:39 PM

Alright Wes, enough pics, get some at your store! :D

exactly Wes.... bring them in...man.... :headbang2

tigerfangs

11-27-2005, 10:51 PM

YOU CANT KNOCK THE EAST

IM FROM THE EAST

LOL

IoStrisciare

11-27-2005, 11:19 PM

just an update...

one pce of the 2 just started to develop stripes... this is the one w the smaller jaw and more rounded face.

so left with the larger jawed one that hasn't developed a full tail red and stripes... YET... and hopefully won't... :(

IoStrisciare

11-27-2005, 11:20 PM

YOU CANT KNOCK THE EAST

IM FROM THE EAST

dammit....

i'm from the FAR EAST :swear:

rumblesushi

11-29-2005, 9:36 AM

lol, too bad Io. How big is it? Just so I know when mine might develop stripes if it's not a goliath :)

NjOyRiD

11-29-2005, 10:24 AM

Sweet :headbang2

for sure, whoa!

IoStrisciare

11-30-2005, 2:56 AM

lol, too bad Io. How big is it? Just so I know when mine might develop stripes if it's not a goliath :)

i don't think u will need to look for the stripes.

from the way the head is shaped for urs it looks highly unlikely to be a goliath.

IoStrisciare

11-30-2005, 2:57 AM

here is something interesting....

another stripeless tiger fish species....

rumblesushi

11-30-2005, 3:14 AM

that sucks, it was sold as goliath :|

Oh well - I didn't pay a goliath price so nevermind.

IoStrisciare

11-30-2005, 3:24 AM

that sucks, it was sold as goliath :|

Oh well - I didn't pay a goliath price so nevermind.

as we say here.

u pay peanuts u get monkey :grinyes:

rumblesushi

11-30-2005, 4:01 AM

What did you pay for yours Io? And do you think one of yours is a true goliath?

rumblesushi

11-30-2005, 7:03 AM

Although I'm surprised you say mine is highly unlikely to be goliath, yet you were sure yours were, because to me yours don't look any different, and don't have any more elongated jaws :)

IoStrisciare

11-30-2005, 6:45 PM

Although I'm surprised you say mine is highly unlikely to be goliath, yet you were sure yours were, because to me yours don't look any different, and don't have any more elongated jaws :)

i have a pce that has longer jaws than yours. And a less even bite.

if u look back at my pics you will be able to see it.

IoStrisciare

11-30-2005, 6:49 PM

What did you pay for yours Io? And do you think one of yours is a true goliath?

right now i dunno...

my remaining pce has a similar jaw... but is diff in head thickness at the neck.

so far no stripes yet so i just have to wait and see.

I paid the normal price for a ATF. Over here they all normally go at the same price as no one really pays attention to the species. Goliaths here normally are mistaken vittatus.

rumblesushi

11-30-2005, 9:54 PM

IoStrisciare

11-30-2005, 11:38 PM

Being that mine is probably vittatus I don't mind as I actually really like the colour and stripes of vittatus, the only thing I'm annoyed about is I'm not sure it will ever catch up enough with my 5 inch peacock bass to not get eaten, I wanted to keep this with my pbass and acestros and bichirs for now.

Do you think your 2 will ever catch up enough to go in your comm.? How big are your main fish?

hard to say... they need to get at least 12" to be added to my main tank. If not they will be food for my orinoco bass.

I only have one now anyways. The other i passed to another hobbyist who wanted a vittatus. I've already kept a vittatus before... want something new to try out.

rumblesushi

12-01-2005, 3:28 AM

Oh I see. We have the same problem then, a larger hungry peacock bass. How big is the bass?

What did yu think of your vittatus you had before, and was it's growth as slow as they say? I know you believe in "pumping" :D

ChickenTeeth

12-01-2005, 4:25 AM

omg

guppy

12-01-2005, 1:28 PM

I have been checking a few other the search engines and other than the H. goliath and the H. vittatus haven't come up with much on the tiger fish.
6, possibly only 5, species of Hydrocynus, listed from largest to smallest they are;
H. goliath - 53"
H. vittatus - 42"
H. brevis - 34 1/2"
H. forskahlii - 31"
H. somonorum - 21 1/2" (this species might be a subspecies of the H. brevis)
and H. tanzaniae - 10"

I could only find drawings of the somonorum and the tanzaniae, pity because the tanzaniae is a great size to keep. I know that you have seenthese pics before but here they are together for comparison,

ChickenTeeth

12-01-2005, 1:36 PM

Gotta get me one of those fierce fish.

tigerfangs

12-01-2005, 2:04 PM

Goliath can exceed 6' and over 200lbs!

Vittatus and Forskahlii are the same fish.

tigerfangs

12-01-2005, 2:10 PM

rumblesushi

12-01-2005, 4:05 PM

that goliath is just insane fangs, it looks more like a dog than a fish. Incredible.

DAZZA

12-02-2005, 6:27 PM

Superb!!!

fugupuff

12-02-2005, 9:16 PM

that goliath is just insane fangs, it looks more like a dog than a fish. Incredible.

You have to see it in person, this is a majestic creature, I stood in front of it for almost an hour, took over 50 shots of the fish. Awesome picture you got there TIGERFANGS. I'll be back to see him again!

They guppy, thanks for the comparison photos and info. I hope more people with additional information can post here so we have a better understanding of these fish!

kido

12-02-2005, 9:45 PM

Updated shots
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/tigerfangs/Goliath/CloseupsNov302005006.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/tigerfangs/Goliath/CloseupsNov302005004.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/tigerfangs/Goliath/CloseupsNov302005003.jpg

holy crap :eek: .. that is an awesome looking fish tigerfangs :headbang2

and i love you vittatus too :thumbsup:

tigerfangs

12-03-2005, 3:48 AM

Thanks guys! He's hands down my favorite fish. Fugu, no problem, let me know.

Funny story - I spoiled my fish with feeders (lots of them) for Thanksgiving and now Mr. G is boycotting prepped food. He got rush of the chase and wants more. :D I'm not too concerned because he was eating like a pig a couple of weeks ago, and is still fat. The other thing is that he did the same when he was eating some Tinfoil Barbs I had put in there a few months back. He eventually came around and began eating prepped foods again like a champ.

BigFishy

12-03-2005, 5:55 AM

wow look at the teeth on that guy...he must be pretty vicious

guppy

12-03-2005, 2:30 PM

tigerfangs

12-03-2005, 2:52 PM

I believe you Tigerfangs, I have always heard that the goliath gets over 6', I think that the smaller size is just the largest that fishbase has had confirmed officially, or they made an error, they are pretty good but with so many entries a few goof ups slip by.

Yeah, I agree. There are conflicting reports as to max size, but not too long ago, Aimara posted a new rod and reel world record on H. Goliath. I believe it is 6'6" and 253lbs!

fugupuff

12-20-2006, 12:36 PM

Here are more pictures and info. on African tiger fish. These photos were found on a Japanese website. What kind of tiger do you think it is?

KRSwop1

12-20-2006, 1:16 PM

a Malnourished goliath.

fugupuff

02-03-2007, 2:01 PM

This thread has been touched on over and over and people are still confused. We'll try to be patient and supportive on learning more about this new species together. I will post up some new pictures in this thread, and everyone is welcomed to post related pictures and information. Hope this will clear up this muddy topic.

African Tigerfish
Hydrocynus goliath (Boulenger, 1898)

Temperament: Aggressive
Sociability: Groups
Min. Tank: 900 gallons
Availability: Rare
Area: Middle

Largest of the Characins, the African Tigerfish is big, powerful, and well armed, thus making it among the worlds most sought after gamefish. It lives in the open rivers and streams of central and northern Africa. The impression one gets from viewing these fish, is one of awe, terror, and mystery, not unlike the feeling of watching a Great White Shark.

This fish is basically an enlarged version of a Tetra. All of the fins are pointed, there is an adipose fin, the scales are large for a Characin, and the mouth and dentention are extremely well developed. The teeth are designed and look like knives. Each tooth fits in a socket between each tooth, allowing the teeth to mesh like cutting sheers. All teeth are seen all the time even when the mouth is completely shut. The entire body is sleek and designed for speed.

Horizontal unbroken black bands run along the entire body, hence the name Tigerfish. The rest of the body is usually a silver-white-grey, however there is usually a metallic orange or yellow sheen. Many specimens have various blue to green pigmented scales.

One of the most fearsome predators freshwater has ever known, the Tigerfish has a viscious reputation. These fish hunt in large packs, just as their South American counterparts, the Piranhas do. Prey consist primarily of other fish, but just about anything alive can fall prey to the Tigerfish. Like the Piranha, prey is eaten away bite by bite. Because they have razor sharp knife-like teeth, and extremely strong jaw muscles, they are among the few fish that can turn the tables on prey the same size or larger than themselves. There are unverified reports of attacks on humans.

This fish is probably entirely unsuitable for captivity because they are enormous, and require a huge body of water to support them. Nothing under 900 gallons is suitable. For tankmates, the only fish that won't be torn to pieces are other individuals of the same size. Aquarium furnishings would only be a hinderence.

Live foods are a must, particularly live fish. Once the tigerfish gets used to captivity it might except lean meat like beef heart. It is not advisable to stick your bare hands or other appendage into the tank containing this potentially dangerous or even deadly fish.

Keep the water extremely well-aerated and moving, with a neutral to alkaline pH at a temperature between 75 to 84 degrees F.

Breeding is rare in captivity. Only H. vittatus has been known to spawn in the aquarium. It is a smaller species, reaching three feet in length.

The importation of these fish must be considered rare and exceptional. If you somehow get a hold of one, you will have something special, a perfect machine devised by nature for one purpose.

Family: Alestiidae
Type: Characins
Distribution: Rivers and lakes of Africa
Max Size: 72"
pH: Slightly Alkaline
Temperature: 76-84° F.
Diet: Carnivorous

The above was copied from Aquaria Central.

There seems to be at least four species of ATF.

Hydrocynus Goliath........over 5'
Hydrocynus Vittatus.......over 3'
Hydrocynus Tanzaniae...3'
Hydrocynus Brevis.........the smallest, not exceeding 30"

H. Vittatus was formerly called H. Forskahlii, same fish.

PERSONAL EXPERIENCE

These are truely specialized predators. They are extremely fast swimmers that need lots of space to safely maneuver. I know the above states min. 900g, but I don't believe that as being the rule. A 360g tank is sufficient to keep one Vittatus or other striped variety. For Goliath, I agree, 900g being min. Keep lids closed and weighted down as these are accomplished jumpers.

Growth rate is slow (6-9" per year). So if you have a 180g tank, and were to purchase a 3" specimen, you could get away with it for about a year, maybe a little bit more. Because these are normally very nervous and flighty fish in their juvenile to adolecence, at 1' they may start to bash themselves into the walls of a 2' wide tank. It helps if you black out the sides and back of the tank giving only one window to be able to view them. This gives the sense of increased security and therefore lessens spazzing. As they get larger and mature, they seem to settle down quite a bit. Avoid sharp rocks as they can easily injure themselves on them as they speed by. If you are planning to keep more than one, adding some obstructions such as driftwood may help against aggression by breaking up territory and providing cover. Plastic plants also work well. Providing clean, well areated water is a essential. Current is recommended especially as they get larger and require higher levels of oxygen.

As for temperament, they are aggressive predators, not all out brawlers. They are very quarrelsome amongst each other or anything that resembles them. As juveniles they don't seem to defend themselves very well against the true fighters such as aggressive cichlids, Jardinis, and even African Pike, etc... and often get bullied or killed by such. That timidness disappears as they get larger. It seems as though they know that they possess some real weapons. There have been many incidents where good sized ATF has severely lacerated or amputated the rear portion of a tankmate out of a territorial dispute or predation, so choose the tankmates carefully. Sometimes it may be best to wait until the ATF is at least 6-8" before introducing tankmates as many of the fish that would be compatible at a later time grow much quicker and would bully or make a meal of them. Good tankmates include the bichirs (bottom level preds which are also good for cleaning up scraps), larger Synodontis cats (Decorus, Angelicus, Granulosus), large barbs (good dithers ), med to large semi aggressive cichlids (Frontosas, larger Haps Oscars, etc...), Red Hook Silver Dollars, etc...

For food, aside from live fish, they will accept most meaty items (shrimp, smelt, catfish filets, beefheart, etc...).

In conclusion, they are awesome, but not for everyone with a large tank. To be truely successful with ATFs, the tank has to be tailored to them. Its one thing to have a large ATF, its quite another to have a flawless, mint looking large one.

H. Vittatus
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/tigerfangs/ATFs/VittsFeb2005016.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/tigerfangs/ATFs/VittsFeb2005014.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/tigerfangs/ATFs/02FEB2005tigers023.jpg
H. Goliath
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/tigerfangs/Goliath/ATFs_001.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/tigerfangs/Goliath/ATFs_004.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/tigerfangs/Goliath/02FEB2005tigers014.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/tigerfangs/Goliath/Goliathrtsidecloseups16jun006.jpg

The Amazonian

02-03-2007, 2:08 PM

Awesome Teeth:headbang2:headbang2

cichlaguapote

02-03-2007, 2:10 PM

Thanks, learned something from that.

fugupuff

02-03-2007, 2:41 PM

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=10117&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1145713433
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=10119&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1145713433
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=10122&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1145713433

BobCat

02-03-2007, 2:43 PM

informative

fugupuff

02-03-2007, 2:52 PM

more pictures taken by Tigerfangs

Updated shots
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/tigerfangs/Goliath/CloseupsNov302005006.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/tigerfangs/Goliath/CloseupsNov302005004.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/tigerfangs/Goliath/CloseupsNov302005003.jpg

Peanut_Power

02-03-2007, 3:08 PM

Nice, love the pictures....how about some of the Bagarius suchus? ;)

fugupuff

02-03-2007, 3:12 PM

Nice, love the pictures....how about some of the Bagarius suchus? ;)

Suchus, not yet, haven't gotten to that country yet :)

Here is a school of vittatus.

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=9270&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1145712311

fugupuff

02-03-2007, 3:19 PM

Here is a school of forskalli from Nigeria, notice the slender body with dark black stripes.

Coloration is not the absolute determination factor, since keeping fish in different colors tanks, substrate can have drastic effects on their coloration.
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=9444&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1145712647
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=9445&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1145712647
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=9446&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1145712647

fugupuff

02-03-2007, 3:32 PM

My personal experience with this genus:

Vittatus when viewed from above, have a shorter head, but the width of the head of a same the same length is greater than that of a goliath. It is easily distinguished from above.

Forskalli are easily set apart by their smaller mouth, and slender body.

As far as jaw lenght and teeth showing, I've seen some vittatus with larger mouth than others, within the same group, same size, and same applies to goliaths. I've kept goliaths in smaller tanks and larger tanks, the ones in smaller tanks that were fed a lot of food, tend to grow taller, and shorter snouth compared to ones kept in larger tanks. I also have a few frozen speciemens, which I will take pictures of and look into their mouth structure to find other supporting evidences.

ultimatejay

02-04-2007, 1:32 AM

Very nice pics and info Wes, but what is this new species your talking about? These fish have been around a long time.

johno27

02-04-2007, 2:44 AM

I think he means that they are now available to more than just a few people in the US

Good info hopefully I will need it some day

Gr8KarmaSF

02-04-2007, 2:59 AM

gud info...

fugupuff

02-04-2007, 3:29 AM

Very nice pics and info Wes, but what is this new species your talking about? These fish have been around a long time.

it may not be a new species, but its different than all three listed above in my post. Its a little different from each one, and from a new location, in the Far East, they're calling it, the giant tiger, saying that it grows very fast and very large. I'll update when they come in.

Nic

02-04-2007, 10:09 AM

thanks for the info wes Hydrocynus Brevis any pics on these guys or info?

Samps

02-04-2007, 10:17 AM

Someone pin this thread. Very informative. Thanks Wes.

mike C

02-04-2007, 2:30 PM

Can you give me a positive id. on this fish. I think it's a vitattus but has very faint stripes.

R1_Ridah

02-04-2007, 11:41 PM

Can you give me a positive id. on this fish. I think it's a vitattus but has very faint stripes.

Your I.D is correct, Vitattus.

ultimatejay

02-05-2007, 12:53 AM

it may not be a new species, but its different than all three listed above in my post. Its a little different from each one, and from a new location, in the Far East, they're calling it, the giant tiger, saying that it grows very fast and very large. I'll update when they come in.

Oh, I thought you were talking about the one's you posted pics on. Looking forward to seeing this new ATF. I'll tell you the truth though, I'm very skeptical, but on the other hand you know your fish very well. Oh, and are they going to be for sale? hehe

mike C

02-05-2007, 5:53 PM

Your I.D is correct, Vitattus.

Thanks Bro.

fugupuff

02-12-2007, 8:30 PM

difference as adults. These are goliaths. Also, something to think about, there are almost zero pictures of adult goliaths pictures taken within the last 5 years, where as many vittatus types on fishing sites throughout Africa...why is that? Are the in areas no longer accessible? Are they scarce in the wild? Do places where goliaths exist lack modern photographic equipment? Challenge, find some pictures of "goliaths" from the wild, pictures taken within recent decade?

OddBaller

02-12-2007, 9:04 PM

what do i win hunny?

fugupuff

02-12-2007, 9:45 PM

what do i win hunny?

wacha want, a bag of nuts? nice pics, the last 2 on the bottom right are not goliaths, my point there aren't that many recent pictures of the stripeless tigers.

OddBaller

02-12-2007, 10:01 PM

wacha want, a bag of nuts? nice pics, the last 2 on the bottom right are not goliaths, my point there aren't that many recent pictures of the stripeless tigers.

yes! walnuts are my favorite.... lightly salted......

Its a conspiricy i tell you..... the african MFK members are trying to suppress the exploitation of GATF...... causing worldwide confusion and misimformation throughout.....

oh and i'll settle for chestnuts..... roasted.....

Taz2478

02-13-2007, 2:47 AM

guess I'll start on that cabanna tank...

so has anyoe stuck there hands in a tank???

Stone Like Fish

02-13-2007, 5:46 AM

Those black GATF are my dream fish, they look like demons

fugupuff

02-13-2007, 2:03 PM

Here are a few pictures of stripless tigers, what we call goliath in this country. These pictures are from a Chinese website, if the owners will identify themselves, welcome!

fugupuff

02-13-2007, 2:05 PM

a yellow tail variety, they call the golden tiger fish.

Stone Like Fish

02-13-2007, 4:29 PM

"OMFGWTFIWNT", thats the only thing i can say about those goldens!

R1_Ridah

02-13-2007, 5:29 PM

Here are a few pictures of stripless tigers, what we call goliath in this country. These pictures are from a Chinese website, if the owners will identify themselves, welcome!

WOW...Might have to change my mind about selling my other Armatus..LOL

More pix's man....I want to see this BIG EYE TIGER you are talking about...

R1_Ridah

02-13-2007, 5:31 PM

a yellow tail variety, they call the golden tiger fish.

I don't know about this yellow tail varient. I had a regular Vitattus that had a red tail and soon as I brought him home his tail turned yellow ? not sure if it;s due to the change in PH or water Temp but I'm a non believer of a yellow tail variant. I think it all has to do with mood.

Last time I seen this guy was with the new owner and his tail was back to red..

R1_Ridah

02-13-2007, 10:55 PM

Smile..

R1_Ridah

02-13-2007, 10:57 PM

You can see where my bigger Armatus inflicted a puncture....right below his pectoral fins... :(

R1_Ridah

02-13-2007, 11:17 PM

ATF's I've had in the past & present....

R1_Ridah

02-13-2007, 11:27 PM

The best my tank has ever looked....

School of Congo Vitattus...

R1_Ridah

02-13-2007, 11:29 PM

Another shot..

R1_Ridah

02-13-2007, 11:32 PM

School of Forskalli and a Vitattus on the bottom left corner. Could be what they call a big eye tiger (sp) ?

You can clearly see the difference with these species. Much longer and slender w/big eyes and small snouts.

R1_Ridah

02-13-2007, 11:33 PM

Here is a school of Tanzania Vitattus...

R1_Ridah

02-13-2007, 11:41 PM

Goliath & Vitattus...

ultimatejay

02-14-2007, 12:20 AM

WOW...Might have to change my mind about selling my other Armatus..LOL

More pix's man....I want to see this BIG EYE TIGER you are talking about...

Yeah Joey, but notice how there's only one Armatus in the tank. hehe.
I'd like to see these new big eye tigers too. Regarding the yellow fin variety, I think they just turned that color due to the color of the background. My vittatus have yellow tinge to their fins as well. I'll have to agree with you Joey on the that.

neoprodigy

02-14-2007, 12:23 AM

GATF 02-13-2006

02-14-2007, 4:48 AM

wes hook it up with the pics. im curious about this new atf species.

fugupuff

02-14-2007, 4:42 PM

close up from this Taiwan goliath aka platinum tiger

neoprodigy

02-15-2007, 12:42 AM

close up from this Taiwan goliath aka platinum tiger
Taiwan keepers use weather dojo loach as feeders :)

Stone Like Fish

02-15-2007, 1:29 AM

Does anyone have pics of large Forskalli (spelling)????

neoprodigy

02-15-2007, 9:07 AM

Video : GATF -vs- Rosey Red (http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56202)

kirelem

02-16-2007, 8:18 PM

I need to get one of em gatf's lol... WOW

kirelem

02-16-2007, 8:19 PM

are they for sale???

Nic

02-16-2007, 8:38 PM

damn i need some atf vittatus or goliath i dont care both preferred

jabuggs

02-18-2007, 4:12 PM

NICE

The Amazonian

02-18-2007, 4:17 PM

Chomp!!

ultimatejay

02-18-2007, 9:29 PM

Here's a pic of my Goliath after about 4 weeks of getting it. It was around
3.5" and now is about 6". His tail is starting to show points and red. Sorry for the crappy pix, I need a better camera. To me their is a night and day difference between the Goliath and others, especially in the face.

fugupuff

02-19-2007, 2:25 AM

fugupuff

03-01-2007, 4:53 AM

revival of the tiger, wish this black goliath could be revived!

Stone Like Fish

03-01-2007, 4:59 AM

my favourite fish, the black coloured GATF.

Where are you finding those pics of them Wes!

fugupuff

03-01-2007, 8:01 PM

Does anyone have pics of large Forskalli (spelling)????

ask and you shall receive

ultimatejay

03-01-2007, 9:08 PM

revival of the tiger, wish this black goliath could be revived!

Sweet pic Wes, damn those teeth! I think it's black because its probably been dead for a while and out in 100+ degree weather-ewww!

fugupuff

03-01-2007, 9:37 PM

Sweet pic Wes, damn those teeth! I think it's black because its probably been dead for a while and out in 100+ degree weather-ewww!

I sure hope not, but either way, look at the size of the head, that thing is massive. Rumor has it, in Japan, they have some black ones!

R1_Ridah

03-01-2007, 10:17 PM

I sure hope not, but either way, look at the size of the head, that thing is massive. Rumor has it, in Japan, they have some black ones!

Man... I'm tired of hearing all this in Japan this, Japan that. Why not just show it damn it. I hear oh, "many of the collectors there are very reserved". Than just keep it to yourself and don't bother saying anything. They can say all they want, but pictures speaks a THOUSAND WORDS. If they are so reserved, why all the fish mags showing MONSTERFISH's in the tanks. All B/S and hear say. That's probably what it is....RUMORS. Nothing more, nothing less.

Don't get me wrong. The Japanese hobbyist are second to non. I'm just tired of all this TALK and no pics... :irked: :irked: :irked:

This post is not against you Wes or the Japanese Hobbyist. Just for the wankers who do nothing but TALK...TALK...TALK....BS...BS...BS

end rant.....

ultimatejay

03-01-2007, 11:28 PM

Man... I'm tired of hearing all this in Japan this, Japan that. Why not just show it damn it. I hear oh, "many of the collectors there are very reserved". Than just keep it to yourself and don't bother saying anything. They can say all they want, but pictures speaks a THOUSAND WORDS. If they are so reserved, why all the fish mags showing MONSTERFISH's in the tanks. All B/S and hear say. That's probably what it is....RUMORS. Nothing more, nothing less.

Don't get me wrong. The Japanese hobbyist are second to non. I'm just tired of all this TALK and no pics... :irked: :irked: :irked:

This post is not against you Wes or the Japanese Hobbyist. Just for the wankers who do nothing but TALK...TALK...TALK....BS...BS...BS

end rant.....

Joey, I feel the same way. What's the big fricken secret here. There just fish. :screwy:

yourockit

11-25-2007, 1:08 AM

I sure hope not, but either way, look at the size of the head, that thing is massive. Rumor has it, in Japan, they have some black ones!
I don't think that blackness is sunlight damage. I think the body would have deteriored a lot, shrivelled, lost water, in order for blackness or rotting to appear. but, I could easily be wrong. and it has been told that these fishes do not last very long. can we find the photographer of the picture? or other pictures of the black gat?

yourockit

11-25-2007, 1:11 AM

a yellow tail variety, they call the golden tiger fish.

yeah, i need to get me some of those.

fugupuff

11-25-2007, 1:13 AM

I don't think that blackness is sunlight damage. I think the body would have deteriored a lot, shrivelled, lost water, in order for blackness or rotting to appear. but, I could easily be wrong. and it has been told that these fishes do not last very long. can we find the photographer of the picture? or other pictures of the black gat?

the owner of the photo is douglas dann, he's published a book, which is no longer in print, its about fishing for goliath tigers in the zambezi. i've seen the book, but not had the chance to buy a copy, regretting now!!!

a few people have contacted this douglas dann guy, he's still in africa, but not much has been posted on the topic. on top of that he is a fisherman, not a scientist or hobbyist, so his interest are a bit different than ours. he probably wouldn't care about what a baby goliath or black tiger fish and see how they look different.

koop171

02-22-2009, 8:56 PM

the owner of the photo is douglas dann, he's published a book, which is no longer in print, its about fishing for goliath tigers in the zambezi. i've seen the book, but not had the chance to buy a copy, regretting now!!!

a few people have contacted this douglas dann guy, he's still in africa, but not much has been posted on the topic. on top of that he is a fisherman, not a scientist or hobbyist, so his interest are a bit different than ours. he probably wouldn't care about what a baby goliath or black tiger fish and see how they look different.

this topic needs stickied and bumped.

I have seen that douglas dann is now in canada. From what I gather b/c so much of the congo area is off limits he has been "exhiled" from the area and now is in canada. I am also trying to get ahold of a copy of his book.

the black GATFs are supossed to come from the Black river. If that's a real river or just a nickname I am still unsure.

but there is still a not very much info on these guys. to my knowledge there is only Two GATFs that are over 2' in the home aquarium. there is possibly more but people are just not talking about them openly I guess.

And I think that the blacks are still around but VERY hard to find. I hear that one was found and up for grabs not long ago but it was never a confirmed Black but it was labeled that way but no pics or vid to confirm so it's more likely then not a hoax.

elongatus

02-22-2009, 11:25 PM

How's it been Wes, Haven't talked to you for a while, fells good to be back on the boards. I see you still like your Tirgerfish, I still do too! You amaze me with the pics. you come up with. Are you still keeping any Piranha? I reacently saw you had a few pieces of Gatf's but I was way to late :). I lost everything on my computer, so I have a different e-mail, Pm me and I'll give it to you. That Black Tiger is Awesome.

Matt

BigJ

02-24-2009, 4:59 PM

This would be real nice Black Goliath! Are these out there? Anybody have pic's? Or any info?

koop171

02-24-2009, 9:28 PM

this is the two best pics I could find of black goliaths. from the book the Worlds Largest Tigerfish-the goliath. Which I did end up finding a copy of and bought. I'll be getting it hopefully within a week. from what the seller told me.

Silk

02-24-2009, 9:34 PM

NICE!!!!

BigJ

02-24-2009, 9:38 PM

cichlaguapote

02-24-2009, 10:10 PM

this topic needs stickied

Since this has alot of good info/pics good idea..;)

koop171

02-25-2009, 8:03 AM

Since this has alot of good info/pics good idea..;)

thanks. when I get the book from douglas dann I'll post any good ifo from it. As I read.

chirachai

07-11-2009, 8:29 PM

Use amount of teeth on the upper jaw and after that count a number of anal fin , lateral line scales and some species use morhometric with infraorbital width.Not included distribution.

twiisted

08-17-2009, 6:48 AM

OH... MY... FREAKING... JEBUS... btw if any ones interested they cost like $299.99 on live aquaria heres the link :popcorn: http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=830+1984+1029&pcatid=1029 its the tittanus

Garz

08-18-2009, 8:29 PM

nice

caribemob

08-20-2009, 9:30 PM

chirachai

08-30-2009, 5:18 AM

I have 2 descriptions about this genus.One is George Albert Boulenger,F.R.S. another one is Professor Bernice Brewster . Prof. use amount of teeth on upper jaw to identify species.

fonzerelle

08-31-2009, 2:16 AM

HERES ONE OF MY BUDDIES
:headbang2

petranta

10-07-2009, 5:36 PM

By the whay the name Hydrocynus comes from Greek and means "waterdog".

Do you wanna go to swim? :eek:

415139

Nice National Geographic video of Tigerfish

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BigJ

10-07-2009, 5:49 PM

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=73604&stc=1&d=1172742791

:drool::drool::drool::drool::drool::drool::drool:, I'd close the 401K for a fish like this!! :drool:

maxpowers

11-05-2009, 11:55 PM

cant wait till i can find a Goliath my tank is empty and ready. Nice fish,,,,Id bemore excited every day about whats for dinner for the fish than me lol

MICO

11-07-2009, 10:13 PM

Taking hobby to the next level.
This is my share....

http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac82/MICOMD/10.jpg

http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac82/MICOMD/3-1.jpg

http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac82/MICOMD/6-1.jpg