sick of flowerhorns

[yourmylunch]

just going to take i minute to vent. i am so tired of flowerhorns or what most people have ciclasoma trimaculata sorry is thats spelled wrong. i go to my local pet stores and they try to charge me $50 for a $10 fish because they think it is a flowerhorn. flower horns are a genetic mishmash created through artificial insemination in the far east and some are nice and do comand big bucks just like arowanas but most are just farm raised trimac from here in fl that 4 years ago i bought for $5.99 douse anyone agree or disagree let me know i did not post this to piss off anyone just to vent :eek:

[hardb0iled]

I think they are ugly!! :eek: :ROFL:

...but thats just me :screwy:

[Gr8KarmaSF]

i think they look gr8, thou that hump kinda scares me!!! :eek:

[seighten]

i am not in favor of any hybrids.... not a good idea!

[redtailfool]

i think they look gr8, thou that hump kinda scares me!!! :eek:


man up! a little hump shouldnt hurt ya . :D

a real trimac can be distinguished from a flowerhorn ( im not saying its easy or 100% foolproof ). If you really want a trimac thats pure, go buy from reputable cichlid sellers. But i hear your pain.

[sleepyflight]

From my experience seeing them bred (not insem.) the trimac color traits are pretty strong....not to mention these "F1" qual. ones we see might be one of a thousand in a batch that happened to make it. Yes, a lot that are 'trash' and sold in places like petco just look like a trimac but very well could be a flower horn. I've had many diff. types of whore fish that would breed with anything close given enough time. I've seen some really screwy pair....not all succesful spawns (fert. but later eaten). You have to admit that some of them look pretty hot. Just don't buy them at petco and know who gets what stock from where. Keep in mind also it takes them getting to a pretty good size to get thier colors. I've had two in the past that looked like trimac till they got about 4 in. or so. One turned out looking like a golden flower horn.....thats one more thing, there are a ton of diff. types. We mostly see what I believe to be trimac/Rdevil/ and I think synspylum(red hed). I'm not to sure on the third. I do think the asian rhelm is a bit overboard with them and the market is still becoming increasingly plentiful with them so soon I would bet that they won't be worth a whole lot.

[M|L]

Flowerhorns breed naturally, not all (if any) are artificially insemenated.

I think flowerhorns are beautiful animals that deserve just as much respect and love as any other cichlid (or pure strains).

However, I do agree that their prices are a bit over exagerated, but that's because of supply and demand. Out of a batch of flowerhorns, only a select few (if any) are considered "AA" or "AAA" grade. Many of these offsprings are culled in Asia (or in the case of American bred flowerhorns, simply sold cheaply), so instead of selling 100 babies at $5.99 a piece, they're selling one nice specimen for $600.00 (or more).

You can't deny the amazing color of a good quality flowerhorn, but some do look a little funky (unatural).

The only other thing I dislike about flowerhorns is, they're continually being sold as pure strains (such as, the trimac or in many cases red devils).

My opinion.

[sleepyflight]

A vast amount are artificially done simply because males and females don't always want to pair off. Its not really art. insem. but more of a milking process of getting or making the female lay and then milking the male in tank or milking and then "basting" the eggs.

[e!o!z!]

The newer strains of flowerhorns don't look anything like the trimacs in fact flowerhorns are judge low grade if they resemble the trimac or red devil. I like mine and have two spawns of fry that I am culling out now.

[sandtiger]

I would rather have a trimac then a flowerhorn anyway. I don't have anything against hybrids or hybrid keepers I just would prefer nature's version of the fish. The flowerhorn this is just a fad, it will probably die off and you will find them as cheap as bloodparrots.

[AmazonPredator]

I have to agree with you there. I'm not a hybrid fan by any means, and that goes especially for the flowerhorn. I think crossing cichlid species in captivity(whether accidental or on purpose) is the worst thing we could do with captive stock. I think the pure trimac is a much nicer fish in its own right than some funky, extra kok-headed flowerhorn with funky mismatched colors. Don't even get me started on blood parrots...those things are retarded and can't even function properly.

[DeLgAdO]

i like fh's because they get huge and pretty, a true monster cichlid :headbang2

[Mourinho18]

I have to agree with you there. I'm not a hybrid fan by any means, and that goes especially for the flowerhorn. I think crossing cichlid species in captivity(whether accidental or on purpose) is the worst thing we could do with captive stock. I think the pure trimac is a much nicer fish in its own right than some funky, extra kok-headed flowerhorn with funky mismatched colors. Don't even get me started on blood parrots...those things are retarded and can't even function properly.


:iagree:

[Ronin]

I don't know i think some are really nice but i am not a fan of most and even the ones i like i probably wouldn't shell out the asking price for them. Rather have a C. festae. :thumbsup:

[guppy]

I don't care for them but that is okay because I don't buy them, or discus, or oscars, or etc. Just because they are being sold doesn't mean i have to buy. Doenn't mean they aren't good for someone else either, to me they are the pop-country music of the fish world.

[TaratronVaeVictus]

I'm still amazed at the prices these brutes seem to sell for! A hundred bucks for a discus somewhat makes sense; at least you can breed those and make some money back! Flowerhorns...bah.

[viciouspisces]

flowerhorns are not insemintated first of all ,and I dont think anyone whose ever actually kept blood parrots can say "they dont funtion properly" (they are bossy buggers,wierd yes -but more then capable of taking care of them selves and making it in a cichlid tank.As someone who at one time was dazzled by flowerhorns and went a little bit overboard w/ flowerhorns (had 13 at one time) I can say -I have my own reasons for getting into other 'pure' cichlids lately .And this is the main reason ( my only reason ,from experience ;) ) They dont live as long ! I dont know why ,but they seem to live average about 3 years and seem to be more picky and delicate .When you think about it - it's alot of time and money to spend and invest on a 'good ' flowerhorn and the to have it gone at its peak. I myself have no moral problem w/ hybrids (not going to even do there w/ debateing that).I am, however in the process getting out of flowerhorns as Ive had a couple beloved pets die ,what should be way to soon (but average for them acording to anyone whos not selling them anyways)and find that other cichlids can be just as beautiful in other ways & w/ much better chances at longevity.I myself am into pet fish that I can get to know and enjoy for years -thats my honest 2 cents at this point anyways

[guppy]

Yeah, I have no moral problem with them,I do with chihuahuas but that is a whole different story, I just don't have any attraction to them, just like a lot of people don't particulaly like eels, (some of my favorites). So many fishes multiplied by so many equals opinions ad nauseum. I keep hoping someone figures out how to breed a "blinky" fish like from the "SIMPSONS" show, now I want one of those. :thumbsup:

[Dargath78]

I don't know i think some are really nice but i am not a fan of most and even the ones i like i probably wouldn't shell out the asking price for them. Rather have a C. festae. :thumbsup:



What about an A. festae ;) ! Just got one from Rapps a few months ago and he is great!

[Raiders]

fh are suppose to bring good luck......but i have not yet seen it........

[AmazonPredator]

As far as do I think creating hybrids is morally wrong, not really. Breeding flowerhorns is an artform, just like breeding goldfish and breeding dogs. I think flowerhorns are fine being bred to other flowerhorns. I don't think, however, that a flowerhorn & trimac should cross, or a flowerhorn x red devil or any other combo. Would I have created flowerhorns to begin with? Hell no. Call me a purist if you will. ;)

[Mourinho18]

As far as do I think creating hybrids is morally wrong, not really. Breeding flowerhorns is an artform, just like breeding goldfish and breeding dogs. I think flowerhorns are fine being bred to other flowerhorns. I don't think, however, that a flowerhorn & trimac should cross, or a flowerhorn x red devil or any other combo. Would I have created flowerhorns to begin with? Hell no. Call me a purist if you will. ;)

:iagree:

[hardb0iled]

IMHO, breeding any hybrid animal purely for human entertainment is wrong. Thats what it is too - just for our entertainment!? :(

All the deformaties this creates, the suffering of the animals that end up with physical problems due to being cross bred or in bred to retain a certain genetic trait. Not to mention how many offspring are culled to get to a point where 'WE' are happy with the appearance of the genetic mutant in question?

Nature has developed creatures with certain genetic traits over millions of years to suit a particular lifestyle/habitat for that creature, if we think we can mix this all up, create a creature that looks better to us aesthetically and believe the fish is happier for it? :screwy:

You only have to look at dog breeds to see how many medical issues arise and how much certain breeds have to suffer due to the exact qualities that we humans find desireable.

[AmazonPredator]

:clap Very well said. The natural forms in nature have adapted for survival purposes, not for human pleasure. Good examples include goldfish breeds that have poor swim bladders and can't even go after prepared food and persian cats that can't breathe because of their flat faces. Regardless, they look pretty and get points at the nearest show. :screwy:

[Dan1]

Amphilophus Trimaculatus pure strain really doesn't look like a high quality FH its very easy to tell the difference atleast for me but I have several flowerhorns.I will say this tho I have seen petsmart selling trimacs as flowerhorns but they were only $8. each and I don't think its on purpose some were flowerhorns. There suppliers are to blame for that one!!

[Zygaena]

IMHO, breeding any hybrid animal purely for human entertainment is wrong. Thats what it is too - just for our entertainment!?


But isn't fishkeeping essentially for human entertainment anyway?

I keep natural breeds and hybrids, including flower horns, for the same reason: I think they're awesome and beautiful creatures.

Moreover, aren't many of the fish in trade bred to fetch the highest prices?

IMO, the natural world encompasses human intervention just as it does the natural kind. What we've done to this planet is already impacting on natural evolutionary processes. Good or bad, human activity IS part of the natural order.

What's this got to do with fishkeepers? Plenty!

Five years ago, some idiot decided to dump his plecos into a major river system near here. Today, they've edged out indigenous species and are taking over the ecosystem.

Then again, when an entire ecosystem dies, naturally or unnaturally, it's possible the only survivors could be swimming happily in someone's tank.

[JESS]

I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM HYBRIDS AT ALL AFTER ALL THE WHOLE AQUIRUIM TRADE IS FOR HUMAN ENJOYMENT WETHER YOU ARE A PURIST OR NOT YOUR TANK IS FOR YOU PLEASURE SO BASICALLY IT IS WHAT EVER CATHES YOUR EYE AND ATTENTION THEN WHAT YOUR POCKET BOOK WILL ALLOW YOU TO AQUIRE

[twk1]

I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM HYBRIDS AT ALL AFTER ALL THE WHOLE AQUIRUIM TRADE IS FOR HUMAN ENJOYMENT WETHER YOU ARE A PURIST OR NOT YOUR TANK IS FOR YOU PLEASURE SO BASICALLY IT IS WHAT EVER CATHES YOUR EYE AND ATTENTION THEN WHAT YOUR POCKET BOOK WILL ALLOW YOU TO AQUIRE
I agree, i'm with you on that!! :thumbsup:

[yourmylunch]

i was not trying to say anyhting against hybrids only for this reason

alot of fish are hybrids in the industry

most live bearers
gourami
discus
angels
goldfish
some african ciclids

and also

cats
dogs
horses
pretty much all livestock
snakes as pets
ligers
beefalo

and alot more i can't think of

[Mourinho18]

cats
dogs
horses
pretty much all livestock

beefalo

and alot more i can't think of


none of these are hybrids :D

[redtailfool]

This whole debate about flowerhorns is a matter of perception, how one subject is viewed differently by different people.

Much as i want to change another persons opinion about flowerhorns, its my belief that most of the opinions here are set and there is nothing i can do to change it.

To me , Flowerhorns are cool and allright because they get big, beautiful and aggressive. A true monster fish. Others think different. One thing is for certain,
they will be here for a while ,so might as well respect the rights and opinions of those who are for them and those that oppose them.

[papillon]

very well said redtailfool....

[yourmylunch]

of course they are the asian horse crossed with the spanish stalions to get the best features, most domesticated animals have bean cross bred in some way over thousands of years and beefalo buffalo+beef cow. unless you want to argue that because flowerhorns are fertile they are not hybrids like blood parrots, mules or ligers they are like dogs all considdered the same species just looking alot differt.

[redtailfool]

very well said redtailfool....


Thanks ! I am out of the FH scene, but i certainly appreciate very nice
ones . I hear the Philippines is going FH crazy. They even have FH competetion
there now.