Mixing african and american cichlids, and cichlid water parameters

[piranha45]

I am a huge fan of mixing Americans with Africans , particularly when mixing central americans and africans, as their endemic water types are so similar.

I'd like to say that even south americans and rift lake africans would work fine-- given the countless different water types used by keepers of CAs, SAs, and Rift Lakers, although that could be considered a controversial statement. I haven't tried much in the way of SAs and Rift Lakers but for about 6 months, when I kept a green terror with malawi/tang cichlids in hard water of pH 8. I must say the GTs in my LFSes look perfectly healthy, as did my own GT until the day my Texas decided to slay him. Things like this really make me ponder over the necessity of specific water parameters for cichlids of all types.

My water as well as my city's water is around 9 degrees GH with pH of 8.1 or so. Kribs, jewels, redbelly pikes and GTs seem to do just as well in it as tropheus, frontosa and any CA cichlid you can shake a stick at.

I'd like to state a personal, not-fully-tested theory that as long as your water parameters aren't subject to regular serious change, your cichlids will live perfectly healthily, regardless of what their endemic water parameters may be. Now, in the relatively loooong run, I speculate that water parameters might have more bearing on deciding whether a given fish will naturally 10 years, or 15 years.

A potential crux of this argument is that we are generally limited to judging how healthy our fish are by a distant visual examination of the fish's outer body. We can't give our fish cancer checkups or monitor their bowel movements. But since distant visual exams are about as good as we can reasonably get, they are the standard for judging fish health.



This is just a wandering drivel of my thoughts/observations on the matter of cichlid water parameters and mixing different cichlids; I plodded on multiple issues to discuss if anyone is feeling so inclined.

[M|L]

I have kept countless species of cichlids and I must agree with you. Most of the commonly available cichlids in petstores have been bred in captivity over tens (perhaps even hundreds) of generations and are fully adapted to life in fish tanks. It is generally agreed by most experienced keepers that as long as fluctuations in pH are kept to a minimum and extremes are avoided, cichlids can happily live in pH 8.0 water.

[Caveman]

I have mixed Africans and American Cichlids various times. Many of the faster Lake Malawi Cichlids make great target fish for large C.A. Cichlids.

[The Mule]

I have kept ****less species of cichlids

Really, Ming? You're trying to keep them from breeding I guess.

[Ron R.]

Mixing SA and Africans has never been a problem for me. I've bred fronts successfully with a large silver aro hovering over them. Most fish you see in the lfs were bred in tanks with water pretty much similar to what you would have coming out of your tap. Wild caught fish are a bit more finicky, but can be aclimated as well.

You are correct, there is alot of controversy from purists that believe you cannot mix the two..........almost to the point of making you feel that one of the species suffers from not having the soft, hard, acidic or alkaline water FO's (wild, native fish) come from.

I think the difficulty in keeping some species together comes more from diet i.e. keeping tropheus with frontosas. Although tropheus are more sensitive to water and temp fluctuations than my fronts were, the diet was the killer. Tropheus like a vegetable based diet where fronts need to have some meat in their diet. Fronts can eat the veggie based diet where tropheus cannot have alot of meat in their diet because they get the bloat.

This has been my experience on this subject.

[piranha45]

I fully concur with you on the tropheus, Ron. I had a duboisi in my setups. I fed him the same thing I fed all the other fish - high-protein kensfish pellets. He actually did quite fine for about 8 months (he was king of all the africans in the tank, actually, even though he was hardly the largest). Then, suddenly, one day I noticed his abdominal area was a good deal fatter than usual, and he was listless. He died a couple hours later.

[grenade3]

I personaly think that mixing africans and central/south americans is a personal choice. it makes sense that fish from the same regions would need the same water conditions but unless the fish are wild caught i dont see why it matters. I have had wild caught cichlids that are used to certain types of water temperatures and ph levels that have not done well with other fish i got from my work at a LFS. currently I am holding 2 managuenes (mated) for a guy who bought them. I got two wild caught frontosas from some guy who could no longer keep them who came into my store. I only have a 60 gallon but did not want to pass up the fish so i took them and put them in the Jags. So far it has been 3 days and everything is fine. the frotosas love the same Cichlid Gold i feed them and the managuenes stays out of thier way completley. This is just my story on the issue. P.S. I am adding tropheus with my frontosas pretty soon. anyone have any (any morph is fine) that they would like to sell??

[sicklid-holic]

It dont matter, I mixed CA and africans constantly and I find the african mbuna to be a better target fish in my CA tank than smaller CA fish, african mbuna are mean fish for there size.

[fsc46]

I fully concur with you on the tropheus, Ron. I had a duboisi in my setups. I fed him the same thing I fed all the other fish - high-protein kensfish pellets. He actually did quite fine for about 8 months (he was king of all the africans in the tank, actually, even though he was hardly the largest). Then, suddenly, one day I noticed his abdominal area was a good deal fatter than usual, and he was listless. He died a couple hours later.

It died from bloat. To much protien in it's diet. Next time you or anyone has that problem add epsom salt to the tank. I pour it right in, and it can't hurt the fish. it works like a laxative and you will see it all over the tank. just do a water change and they will be fine. usually but not always it will clear the bloat. you will know for sure when it eats again it's fine. other wise treat the tank again with the fish friendly, wallet friendly salt!

[mjime714]

man.. I am so tempted to mix my Africans with some CA's, but my tank is too small. (HINT HINT to Wifey!!!! 100 gal for valentines day!)

Do you start your CA's and Africans at the same size or make sure one is larger than the other?

[piranha45]

I've just thrown them in together at the same time, regardless of age. The Americans generally (but not always) get stuck on the lower end of the pecking order until they gain some size advantage, though.

[JAGUARCICHLID]

I havent noticed any problem with mixing them also. i had to move a couple of large oscars from my 72 because my jag was beating the hell out of them. I put them in a African tank and they get along great, was worried the oscars would bother them but the africans arent the least bit itimidated.

[mav]

I agree, My 125 has a mix of africans an C.A. and they are doing fine...or at least as well as the Africans did when they were all together exclusively.

[Taz2478]

when I 1st got my 150 last yr I did a setup like this.

African:1 front, 1 male peacock, kenyi pr (bred nicely), borelyi(sp?)
American: grammode, pike, texas, gt, red tiger, black belt

it was so cool and no probs til my BB got a lil psycho as usual but only went after the gt. Fed em all Brine Shrimp, Emerald Entre, ghost shrimp, pellets and flakes. no one died til the storm (damn you katrina).

[Ash]

I tried mixing my gt with my africans and they didnt like it at all luckly I caught it before they ripped him up. Then again people keep telling me my africans are meaner and more agressive then they should be? I didnt do anything to them for them to be mean.. so idk? But I had to move him into the smaller tank with my other african that cant swim with its backtail.. they get along great lol.

[grenade3]

I have a Managuense in my african tank who has been there for a while and is awaiting payment for me to ship him out. I bought a Labidochromis sp. who is about an inch bigger than the Jag. They instantly began locking jaws and I have been watching it over that last few hours. the labidochromis seems to be holding his own very well.

[Gothyc_samurai]

i got a full grown sysnpilum male and clarius in a 96 gal malawi setup

[puffer_girl]

I just recently introduced a African into one of my tanks and at first I was concerned..... Watched him closely because of his size and now, it's been about 2 weeks, he is doing really well..... I made sure that he had a hiding spot. Dug a hole and put a teacup in the tank at an angle with just enough space for him to get in and he is constantly zipping in and out. My other fish can't even get close to him because he's so quick!!! Also introduced some dither fish with him to draw attention away from him. Glad I did it cause he is so much happier now cause he has much more room!!!! :)

[Xiao]

People fuss too much about the water conditions of their cichlids. With a few exceptions, most cichlids tolerate and thrive in a wide variety of water conditions.

[Jason_S]

tank raised fish will be easier to adapt to a wider range of parameters, but wild caught fish can be acclimated as well. with wild caught fish though the acclimation should be much slower. the only problem I can really see is that if you took a wild caught fish and acclimated it to comletely different water conditions then they may not breed. an example, a guy I know in cincinnati used to have (he still might, I'm not sure) a wild caught pair of Pelvicachromis taeniatus 'wouri' and an f1 breeding pair of Pelvicachromis taeniatus 'nigerian red'. he kept them both in his tapwater (8.? ph and very hard) and both pairs were fine. however, only the nigerian red pair would spawn in the tapwater. in order to get the wouri pair to spawn, he had to lower the ph considerably. :)

[freeNINETY9]

I have mixed central american and even south american cichlids with africans several times with great success. Water parameters and diet werent so much a problem as was the aggression of the fish in relation to their size. I had an Acei and a Flowerhorn in with south americans and they did fine. They fought a bit with eachother but none suffered from water parameters. My fish usually come from larger retail chains who have centralized systems meaning every tank has the same water. They do fine there and they usually do fine with me.

[MikeVance]

My Jag would kill everything in the tank including his mate, he recently passed away. but now I can populate my 160 gallon with more than 1 fish. I'm going to try a mix of african and american cichlids. Not getting another Jag for a little while.

[Xiao]

I attempted to mix Neolamprologus Christyi with an assortment of C.A. cichlids (salvini, JD, freddy, etc.). They were all fine as far as water parameters went, although the Christyi decided one day that they didn't want tankmates anymore, and I woke up to find several of the C.A's assassinated, and the rest huddled in the corners of a 90g shredded to pieces.

[Tongue33]

I mix .... they get along or one goes away... I had a problem trying to impliment a gar with my africans. I took him back to the store within 2 hours.... I even cleaned the tank completely and moved everything around over fed a little .. They woke up as soon as he hit the water... He was just too slow.. Plus non agressive... oops the days of the beginning hahaha... I liked him but hey that's why he went back...

[scott g]

I just got my 180 gallon tank and I'm definatly going to put some Convict's in with my africans and maybre some firemouth's too.

[mjime714]

my GT and 10 other africans are doing fine. My female GT jumped tank the other day. The male was giving her fits.

[rook45]

mix em all

[inline4]

i have SA cichlids, CA cichlids, African cichlids from all the 3 lakes, Asian fish, and Australian fish.. lol.

it's kool to see an Angel fish feeding along side an African cichlid, then a huge SA cichlid 50 times bigger then the African cichlid gently grabbing a brine shrimp from the surface. all of my African cichlids have bred in the tank, with a few small fry still managing to survive. the biggest fry is about 3/4 of an inch now, but he's the only one that comes out to play. weird thing is I also have a 7 inch pike cichlid that doesn't bother the fry, she doesn't even try. she just eats pellets.. and nothing else.

they all get along fine.

[Filthy Sanchez]

Hello my name is Filthy Sanchez and I'm a mixer.

[Theo]

I have front's with my mbuna for 1 month now everything fine so far.

[dmarinko]

me too

[SphericalCube]

It died from bloat. To much protien in it's diet. Next time you or anyone has that problem add epsom salt to the tank. I pour it right in, and it can't hurt the fish. it works like a laxative and you will see it all over the tank. just do a water change and they will be fine. usually but not always it will clear the bloat. you will know for sure when it eats again it's fine. other wise treat the tank again with the fish friendly, wallet friendly salt!

Kosher Salt is another wallet friendly remedy to use. . . no need to pay a ton for it at the pet shops. . . Just another great suggestion from Josh.

--Jimmy

[SphericalCube]

Hello my name is Filthy Sanchez and I'm a mixer.

Hi Filthy Sanchez and welcome to Mixer's Anonymous. . . you've taken the first of 12 steps. . . :grinyes:

[polomax24]

Water parameters are very important for some of the more sensitive SA cichlids such as balzani, fernandezyepezi, daemon, lilith, discus, and ect... However, you can mix CA cichlids pretty much with everthing because they can survive in most water. Just my two cents.

[pimptite]

i've always thought the whole water parameter thing was a bunch of crap. every cichlid i've had has been in plain dechlorinated tap water and has done fine.
i don't see a problem with mixing them either. i did it once with no problems until my salvinis paired off, they took out the ca/sa and the africans with equal fury :(

[donibugs]

it def. works,though i dont care for how it looks,just dont look"right"

[TicaL]

I recently made a thread about this in my tank. I have a 37 that I'm using to outgrow an Electric Blue African,GT, and Senegal Bichir. The Electric Blue is the boss and he will chase the GT but the GT dips on him too hard for him to nip his fins. The GT has permission to swim freely most of the time but when he gets in the temple that the Electric Blue sleeps in and resides most of the time he gets chased into the cave. The GT doesnt seem to fear him though because he always comes right back out a second later like it's just a game to him.http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/653/tankshotoo5.jpg

here's Hendrix
http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/3586/hendrix2ja9.jpg

and Marley, the GT

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/967/marleyji9.jpg


I've decided to keep them together and not trade the EB in after questioning if I should after taking into consideration no injuries have occured and all fish in the tank are healthy and nearly stress free.

[KenyanSandBoa]

I too am a mixer. I've found that as long as I don't taylor my tank to a specific region and avoid feeding my Africans high fat meat based foods, everything works out just fine.

[piggy67]

can n e 1 of you tell me what this fish is. I know he a cichlid but not sure what kind.He looks like a bumble bee,has 5or 6 gold spots on his bottom rear fin.n e 1 please

[duke33]

I know, I know, I just thought this was a good read.:)