Captive breeding of RARE fish ?????????????

[santoury]

Okay - with ALL of these ultra rare fish popping up (Mostly in Li's tanks!) why isn't anybody working on breeding programs? Nobody?
Even species that are easily bred in Asia aren't bred here - example : Giant Gouramis. They are just Gouramis for pete's sake. They have a well known breeding regime just like Tilapia in ponds.
My question is, why wouldn't more people promote the captive breeding of really rare fish (I'm excepting Cichlids here, because Cichlids are as a general rule, very easy in comparison.)

This would 1) lessen pressure on wild caught fish (except for mutations), 2) keep money within the USA, instead of international breeders profiting, 3) make RARE fish available to all of us MFK's, and 4) for the joy, experience, and learning of breeding fish that aren't bred often, if at all.

For example, there are quite a few species of concern, such as the black arowana, but nobody is "really" doing anything to create a captive breeding program. My question is... Why?

As for me, I'm working on building up a breeding group of Protopterus annectens, and already have enough specimens to do that. I have also just started collecting Osphronemus for the dual purpose of their awesome personalities, and to breed them in the USA.

[santoury]

And I meant to include all the new, crazy morphs - leucistic, xanthic, piebald, platinum and so on.

[neoprodigy]

if you can breed them then its wont call "rare" anymore....

[Nic]

also most people don't have the money or space to do breeding on a large enough scale to actually make a impact

[sandtiger]

if you can breed them then its wont call "rare" anymore....

So?

[santoury]

It might not be "rare" anymore but it would allow for more of us to be able to have them without enormous pockets.
Also, it doesn't have to be a HUGE scale operation to make an impact. Just think, if one species was bred ONCE, there would be approximately 20 to 200 more of said fish for US to enjoy.
And Li, aren't there enough "rare" fish?

[davo]

a lot of fish are pretty difficult to start captive breeding... not saying it couldn't be done.

[sandtiger]

It might not be "rare" anymore but it would allow for more of us to be able to have them without enormous pockets.
Also, it doesn't have to be a HUGE scale operation to make an impact. Just think, if one species was bred ONCE, there would be approximately 20 to 200 more of said fish for US to enjoy.
And Li, aren't there enough "rare" fish?

Captive breeding would also take pressure off wild stocks, especially endangered species. Also would help restore wild populations.

[santoury]

Davo - Exactly - which is why more of us should be trying it, at least.

[me_wee_todded]

its a good idea, it really is, but breeding fish is expensive.
so those of us without "enormous pockets" cannot take on this endeavor.
it will have to be left up to those that already have the rare fish.

[santoury]

me wee
That is exactly why I'm surprised nothing is being done to make them bred, and thus... more available/affordable. Get my gist?
And it's not THAT expensive. All you need is the food, the aquariums, and some water ;)
And those who CAN afford them, should be the ones to start breeding them.
Also, even really rare fish aren't THAT expensive to begin with. Come to think of it as an investment, also.
They don't even have to be rare - just "not bred"

[sandtiger]

IMO breeding a fish is the ultimate achivement of any fishkeeper, no matter the species. MFK...heck, "the next level" should be "MFB", MonsterFishBreeders. If some of the members here invested as much as they do on their setups and collection into trying to breed rare or endangered species the hobby would be a lot richer.

[davo]

Davo - Exactly - which is why more of us should be trying it, at least.

that is why i TRY (sometimes very hard) only to purchase fish i can breed. Or at least a fish that is not known about the breeding process and start testing different things....

[santoury]

Sandtiger has hit the nail on the head

Breeding all these rare fish that we DO HAVE, would make it all the more rich an experience, for you, AND FOR US ALL.

[santoury]

Davo - good going - what have you been working with?

[davo]

I only have plecos set ups at the moment. Everything else are dithers. Also have a few fw asian sole in a community, and thats where my tweaking parameters etc. comes from. If you dont know what to do, best thing is to look at the natural history of the fish. I guess i'm not breeding rare fish... but the way we are going i'm sure they will be one day. Captive breeding is a good thing no matter if its a convict or a leopoldi.

[santoury]

the plecos and the asian sole are a great place to start - are you actually trying to breed? Or plan to?

[davo]

It was only a while ago i had a look at what i enjoy the most out of the hobby, and decided that breeding and then raising fry i had successfully was probably the most rewarding part for me to do, so I decided i'd set up all my tanks as little breeding projects. I still have fish from pre-mindset, but my aim is to just have as many tanks as i can dedicated to mass CB plecos. That's my end goal. If i have some spare tanks, then great, i enjoy other fish as well. I'd also like to start breeding rays, but i need to wait till i get a bigger house for that. It's not something to get me rich, I think it's better for the hobby (and so people don't have to waste money on poorer quality, not so healthy fish :D)

There was a guy in the UK who had recently bred his T. amazonican which i thought was great, he just did the best at giving them a natural habitat and it worked out. I'd be interested to see if anyone else decide to breed their fish...

[johnptc]

i have 10 black aro's.......my breeding stock i hope !!!

[davo]

i have 10 black aro's.......my breeding stock i hope !!!

that would be awesome. How are you keeping them all, communally? How do you breed arows?

[johnptc]

that would be awesome. How are you keeping them all, communally? How do you breed arows?


they are all together range from 12 to 24 inch.

i am still researching... but they do breed in the cooler rainy season. a drop in temp and RO water may be a signal....the was an article some time ago translated from japanese.....

[wizzin]

they are all together range from 12 to 24 inch.

i am still researching... but they do breed in the cooler rainy season. a drop in temp and RO water may be a signal....the was an article some time ago translated from japanese.....

John, did you see this post: http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71296

Spawning at about 3 years of age in December/January.

[bjorn]

im trying to breed l204 plecs, got six of them at the moment

dont know if ther rare in the states but theres not heaps in new zealand lol

[unknownuza13]

At this stage I have no desire to breed fish. The majority of the fish I own get very large and are kept in community tanks. If I had to set up dedicated breeding tanks for them I would need to vastly increase the amount of tanks I have. At the moment 700 gallons of water is all I can handle.

[davo]

im trying to breed l204 plecs, got six of them at the moment

dont know if ther rare in the states but theres not heaps in new zealand lol
no, i can imagine. loach43 (think thats the numbers) is also trying to breed them too.

At this stage I have no desire to breed fish. The majority of the fish I own get very large and are kept in community tanks. If I had to set up dedicated breeding tanks for them I would need to vastly increase the amount of tanks I have. At the moment 700 gallons of water is all I can handle.
this is one of the main problems monster fish keepers would have when it comes to breeding...

[Oddball]

I have several 'rare' species in breeding programs (tropical gars, banded scats, FW black porgies, etc). All that's needed now is waiting for them to reach maturity. In the meantime, I'll have to settle on the spawns from a dozen other species (fronts, tropheus, snooks, tilapia, medusa ancistris, sevs, geos, etc.) to occupy the growout tanks/bins.

[lemcc]

i only breed stuff i can sell to LFS and their not impressed by rare stuff

i would like to sell to other keepers but in my area bettas are what the people like :confused:

oh and not big on shipping fish to much money and risk

[santoury]

Oddball - AWESOME going!

Why don't we hear more discussions about our successes and our hopes?

Oddball, what do you do with the fry? I would be interested in tilapia.

[need2ball]

You're idea sounds like a good one BUT when you are talking about breeding rare fish... it is not cheap at all. To get a good breeding stock alone is already expensive. If the fish is rare it is not cheap and then to go and buy 6 of them to get a good prospective breeding group is expensive.

Also, a lot of times the fish is rare because it has a difficult time breeding for one reason or another.

So to answer your question... because it is expensive and difficult.

BUT if you wanna buy me a stock of rare fish to try I'd be more then happy to try :D

[santoury]

need2ball - that is true, but nobody is even breeding the "cheap" rare ones such as Osphronemus, various knifefishes, and they don't even need to be rare, just not bred regularly, or even at all.
Thank you, but I am buying MYSELF stock of rare fish for breeding:
To date: Osphronemus goramy, O. laticlivus, Protopterus annectens, and probably am going to buy up a group of Gymnotus pedanopterus.

What about you? lol

[dragonfish]

I have a group of angel fry growing out. Not rare, but really cool to watch the changes.

[santoury]

Awesome man!!! Angels are not "talked about" much on here, so it's nice to hear. I've always liked them.

[fishlvr]

Anyone ever try to breed archers? I'm going to try as soon as I get a good tank and some good stock. I bought one, but the day after it got ick(or ich, or however it's spelled). Then, a week later, it got better and just randomly died AFTER eating all of my fish.

[loach43]

no, i can imagine. loach43 (think thats the numbers) is also trying to breed them too

Yes indeed but I've had mine for about a year and they are still not mature enough. Panaques are just plain slow!
As oddball mentioned, part of the reason why hobbyists aren't distributing more 'rarish' captive bred fish into the hands of other hobbyists is because in many cases it just takes forever to get results. If I ever get rare pleco fry in my tanks I might just keep them all as a reward for my hard work LOL

[ilubtaimei]

this is a very easy question,its stuoid to breed anything in usa,the cost/profit ratio is too low,you will never be able to compete with oversea breders on price,with their cheap shii$t labor,they'll bang you to death!

[santoury]

ilub = I wanted to clarify that this wasn't in reference to competing with anyone - just the satisfaction of breeding a rare (or difficult) fish, and it is an enriching experience.

As for the guy with archers - that's really cool! I don't think that has been done, and I don't even think anyone knows much about their breeding behavior in the wild. Nice!

[saltydog_1]

i am tryin to get my hands on a group of lubrigus species pikes. one reported breeding of marmorata and no others. tank is set up and am waitin for stock i can afford. i plan to mimic natural environment and diet as close as possible and go from there. i think it is very admirable for the dedicated hobbyist that are doin this to devote the time effort and cash involved.

[Mr.Firemouth]

The trick to breeding big fish is big space. If you have a basement that is open for your use(not occupied) you can build plywood/wooden framed ponds. You basically set up 36"-40" deep framing at lengths of 12-20 linear feet long that are about 36" wide. Once the framing is assembled wrap it in Styrofoam sheeting. Then add a pond liner and you are done. Use submersible mag drive pumps at one end and PVC pipe the outlets to the other end. Make the flow linear like a river. Then aquascape as necessary for breeding. Slate rocks, PVC tubes, large clay pots, etc. Control temp with room temps. I have done this before for people with big fish.

The reason for the larger set up is some fish require a minimum of 24'X24" of substrate just for a breeding pit! Bluegills, pumpkinseeds, and some larger cichlids. Other fish are much like plecs in that they like to have a current that faces them, like a river. Some fish need to run up stream to spawn.
If you have the space these types of set-ups can be sized to suit your individual needs and make great tanks! Remember, breeding tanks are about function, not beauty.(they can be beautifully landscaped if you want, though)

Another idea to use is your local fish club. Go in 3-4 ways with club members and do a breeding program. One guy sets up the big tank. Another guy handles the fry, and the last 2 guys take care of grow out and distribution. The work and space is divided! You just need some hobby friends!

Saltydog_1 and I have kicked around breeding zebra plecs and other hard to get fish. I have some space and he has a little too. Our problem is our wives don't want multiple tanks! When I was a single, childless man I really had some fish!!!! Right now I am under 200. At one time a friend and I rented out 2 side by side apartments and filled them with tanks! The rent was cheaper than a commercial property back then!

This is very do able in a community like MFK! 4 guys is all you need! The fish will ship fine if packaged right so the 4 people don't need to live near each other. They just need to trust each other. Friends are friends. Friends with fish are GREAT friends!

[Mr.Firemouth]

Where did everyone go on this?
I thought I added some good suggestions here to talk about and possibly set-up a MFK project with about 4 or 5 guys!
Any thoughts????

[ddyerfamily]

Where did everyone go on this?
I thought I added some good suggestions here to talk about and possibly set-up a MFK project with about 4 or 5 guys!
Any thoughts????

I love the thought !
I have little around 400 gallons.
working on cycling/setting-up/decorating my 9 tanks for breeding.
gathering equipment and stock.

I like red devils/midas ,ghost/black/clown knife (don't think you can easily breed knife fish).

I also like clown loaches and LFS charges way to much for them.

eels and puffers are another example of "wish I could afford" ,Love watching them at LFS.

[Dreaco]

I have just by accident been able to breed some id sharks. from what I hear they are impossible to breed in captive, but that isnt always the case.

[amazonfishman]

You have mature ID sharks breeding? How big are they? Pics of the fry?

I know Scott is working on breeding some higher end peacock bass and I believe he got a batch of eggs recently that was infertile but is still trying with his orino's and big azul. I plan on trying with my lake diamante mono's sometime in the next year or so after I can clear out the 240 into the pond so they can breed it in and down the road am hoping to breed some of my shovelnose species in a large indoor pond specifically my planiceps or tigs ~Trent

[Zeppelin3k]

I like red devils/midas ,ghost/black/clown knife (don't think you can easily breed knife fish).



someone on mfk has done this.

[Fishes33]

breed some asian arowana !! ^^ so the price can come down a bit ^^