Amazing looking ball python.

[Honda12]

I think this is by far the most amazing looking ball python I have ever seen. I just love the looks of this guy. Just thought I would share.

http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/images/project_images/05_ball_hatched/05_clutch_93_hatched_1.jpg
http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/images/project_images/05_ball_hatched/05_clutch_93_hatched_5.jpg
http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/images/project_images/05_ball_hatched/05_clutch_93_hatched_7.jpg
http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/images/project_images/05_ball_hatched/05_clutch_93_hatched_8.jpg
http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/images/project_images/05_ball_hatched/05_clutch_93_hatched_2.jpg
http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/images/project_images/05_ball_hatched/05_clutch_93_hatched_3.jpg
http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/images/project_images/05_ball_hatched/05_clutch_93_hatched_4.jpg
http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/images/project_images/05_ball_hatched/05_clutch_93_hatched_6.jpg
http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/images/project_images/05_ball_hatched/05_clutch_93_hatched_9.jpg
http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/images/project_images/05_ball_hatched/05_clutch_93_hatched_12.jpg

[Bsixxx]

damn those are gorgeous
:D

I'm geussing that they arnt yours?
if they are damn your one lucky bastard
:D

[Honda12]

I wish they were mine. The cheapest I have found just a normal albino was $1200, so I can't imagine the price on that one, if it is even for sale. I'm sure he will probably keep it for breeding.

[Gr8KarmaSF]

amazing!

[monsternoob]

Yeah I saw those on Ralph Davis awhile ago, I believe they are 05's? Can't remember the name, I think lavender something maybe. They are awesome anyways.

[evilxyardxgnome]

Those are freaking unbelievable.

[ray777]

Yeah I saw those on Ralph Davis awhile ago, I believe they are 05's? Can't remember the name, I think lavender something maybe. They are awesome anyways.

Lavender albino piebalds. Extremely rare!! I dont think these are for sale. But I wana say when he first made them they were 50k. regular Lavander albino still sell for 15k-20k if you even see them for sale. Then you have to cross them then cross them back and hope for the best, like those.

[elevatethis]

Dreamsicles!

Double homozygous lavender albino piebalds as Ray said.....truely amazing animals...probably the best looking baby designer morph to date.

To my knowledge, Ralph hasn't sold any of these. I wouldn't either...I'd keep them ALL!

[annawoo86]

they are beautiful well nice!!!!

[Miguel]

I prefer natural occurring color variants. Very interesting pythons, nonetheless.

[elevatethis]

Miguel, these aren't genetically engineered...

These morphs are found naturally in the wild.

"Designer" morphs are morphs that happen when captive breeders breed the "naturally" occurring morphs together and create crosses. These are all happy, healthy ball pythons that carry genes which influence their color and pattern, nothing more nothing less. They are NOT hybridized or artificially enhanced in any way.

[Fishes33]

Lavender albino piebalds. Extremely rare!! I dont think these are for sale. But I wana say when he first made them they were 50k. regular Lavander albino still sell for 15k-20k if you even see them for sale. Then you have to cross them then cross them back and hope for the best, like those.

with that kind of price.. 2008 Lancer - YES! , albino piebalds python - NO! :D

A car can at least impress some chicks, and a snake cant :nilly:

[dougefresh]

:drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool:

with that kind of price.. 2008 Lancer - YES! , albino piebalds python - NO! :D

A car can at least impress some chicks, and a snake cant :nilly:

Yea but if you breed them a few times, and sell the babies......You can get a much better car then a Lancer lol......

[ray777]

with that kind of price.. 2008 Lancer - YES! , albino piebalds python - NO! :D

A car can at least impress some chicks, and a snake cant :nilly:

If you have that kind of money on a snake you have money to buy a nice car:D

[Nic]

stunning specimens

[Vicious_Fish]

:drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool:



Yea but if you breed them a few times, and sell the babies......You can get a much better car then a Lancer lol......

I couldn't of said it better myself!:D

[cichlaguapote]

If you have that kind of money on a snake you have money to buy a nice car:D

very true... probably not still driving the chrysler k-car if you're spending that on a snake.

Beautiful snake though.

[davo]

Does it not have genetic stripe in them too?

[elevatethis]

with that kind of price.. 2008 Lancer - YES! , albino piebalds python - NO! :D

A car can at least impress some chicks, and a snake cant :nilly:

The fact of the matter is that people spending 5 figures on a snake aren't just buying "pets," they're buying an investment to generate a return.

I would even say that people spending over $1000 are also interested in not only the snake, but the return they can generate.

What I'm trying to say is that I think everyone's frustration with ball python morphs being so expensive is because the supply is so limited and most of the higher end stuff is really a "breeder to breeder" type of market - in other words - breeders selling to other breeders who hope to reproduce the offspring and sell to others.

As the supply increases, prices on ball morphs should come down to the point where non-breeders would be willing to pay XXX.XX amount for a pet, with no intentions on reproducing the offspring to sell.

My feelings from talking to people at reptile shows is that with the ball python morphs being priced so high, people are actually turned off to them as a result of the frustration from the astronomical prices for a snake. Its unfortunate, because its such a great species to work with and I feel like in time as the morphs become more reachable for the rest of us, their popularity is going to go through the roof.

Pastels, spiders, mojaves, and even albinos have come down in price to these levels and you are starting to see them in "everyday" type collections.

Just my thoughts. I think its an awesome hobby to be in.

[ozz465]

Damm thats nice ...

[---XR---]

meh it' alright, i've always liked these better

http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A9gnMiHFuYJG..IACAWjzbkF/SIG=12nq23emu/EXP=1183058757/**http%3A//www.constrictors.com/images/BallPythons/LemonPastelLogo1.jpg

[ray777]

Does it not have genetic stripe in them too?

NO that would be crazy thriple homozygous. but it looks like it

[davo]

NO that would be crazy thriple homozygous. but it looks like it

Yup, just by looking at it, it has an usual dominant stripe marking. I suppose they must have got even luckier then...

[TheBloodyIrish]

Due to my understandings, most of the people that have these kind of snakes are either collectors or breeders. Obviously, if you are a breeder, you are trying to get the market share and make as much money before they become too commonplace.

[elevatethis]

NO that would be crazy thriple homozygous. but it looks like it

Acutally, thats just a baby lemon line pastel.

There are a few different lines of pastels out there. The NERD line Lemon Pastels seem to be very yellow and babies and turn out to be very lightly colored adults.

All pastel lines are co-dominant and capable of producing super pastels, which comes from a pastel x pastel breeding. Here's a super:

(thanks to Joe Compel Reptiles)
http://www.joecompelreptiles.com/images/collection/super_pastel/super_pastel_03.jpg

[---XR---]

Acutally, thats just a baby lemon line pastel.

There are a few different lines of pastels out there. The NERD line Lemon Pastels seem to be very yellow and babies and turn out to be very lightly colored adults.

All pastel lines are co-dominant and capable of producing super pastels, which comes from a pastel x pastel breeding. Here's a super:

(thanks to Joe Compel Reptiles)
http://www.joecompelreptiles.com/images/collection/super_pastel/super_pastel_03.jpg

funny, that's exactly what i posted in my pic, though it was a much sexier juvinile.

[---XR---]

http://www.constrictors.com/images/BallPythons/LemonPastelLogo1.jpg

[Fishes33]

co-dominant means? that if there another gene, this gene is not going show up?

Eg. If i use a Het Ghost Male and a Pastel Female, whats the result after they breed? like 75% het ghost/pastel? and the other 25% come out to be ghost/pastel?

[ray777]

co-dominant means? that if there another gene, this gene is not going show up?

Eg. If i use a Het Ghost Male and a Pastel Female, whats the result after they breed? like 75% het ghost/pastel? and the other 25% come out to be ghost/pastel?

they would be either pastel possible het ghost or normal possible het ghost the percentage of possible het would be 50%.

[Fishes33]

they would be either pastel possible het ghost or normal possible het ghost the percentage of possible het would be 50%.

so how can I determine if my het ghost is really het ghost or not? if they breed and you said 50% chance, what if all the babies come out to be normal looking? :o (a het morph looks the same as normal)

Breed and Breed till something different? :nilly:

My local reptile store say, if i were to buy a female ghost to breed, the chances are 75% het ghost, and 25% will actually become ghost.. and if my male is normal, then no way I can tell which is normal and which is not.

Breed and Breed till some unique morph come out? :nilly:

[Fishes33]

then the guy said if Im really sure that my python is a het for ghost, I can match it up with a pastel.. and get a higher chance of .. i dont know.. I dont get it..

[Miguel]

Miguel, these aren't genetically engineered...

These morphs are found naturally in the wild.

"Designer" morphs are morphs that happen when captive breeders breed the "naturally" occurring morphs together and create crosses. These are all happy, healthy ball pythons that carry genes which influence their color and pattern, nothing more nothing less. They are NOT hybridized or artificially enhanced in any way.

I did not know. Thank you for the insight.

[elevatethis]

Alright Fishes...here's a quick run-down on genetics.

In ball pythons (and many other species), there are a few different kinds of traits.

1. Simple Recessive - these are your albinos, caramels, pieds, hypos, etc.

An animal needs two copies of the gene to be a visual carrier. If the albino gene can be represented as "a", then a visual (or homozygous) albino would be "aa." Now there are also normal looking carriers of simple recessive genes. These normal looking carriers (or heterozygous) commonly known as "hets", carry one copy of the gene. It would be represented as "Aa".

2. Co-dominant - pastels, lesser platinum, mojave, etc

These are genes that behave similarly to simple recessive genes, except that the heterozygous carriers actually do appear different than normals. So, a pastel is basically a heterozygous carrier of the pastel gene. What makes these genes special is that when you combine them, you create a "super" version that looks drastically different than the heterozygous carrier. A super pastel is pictures above, and "super" lessers and "super" mojaves are snakes that are all white with blue eyes.

3. Dominant - Spider, granite, dominant hypo, etc

These are dominant genes that show themselves the same way regardless of whether or not one or two copies of the gene are present. In these traits, there is no "super" version, but the animals themselves look amazing nonetheless.


So, in your example, a 100% het ghost male crossed with a pastel female would go something like this:

Normals that are 50% possible het for ghost
Pastels that are 50% possible het for ghost

or in other words, all are 50% possible het for ghost, and half of those should be pastels.

Go here for more on genetics:
http://www.newenglandreptile.com/genetics_intro.html

[davo]

and in theory that is why the doms and co-doms would be less expensive, or if it is new, the price of the morph will go down quickly. However things are different with royals, especially when the doms and co doms can be used to create bigger and better things... then they are valuable breeding tools.

[elevatethis]

so how can I determine if my het ghost is really het ghost or not? if they breed and you said 50% chance, what if all the babies come out to be normal looking? :o (a het morph looks the same as normal)

Breed and Breed till something different? :nilly:

My local reptile store say, if i were to buy a female ghost to breed, the chances are 75% het ghost, and 25% will actually become ghost.. and if my male is normal, then no way I can tell which is normal and which is not.

Breed and Breed till some unique morph come out? :nilly:

Hehe...don't listen to your local reptile guys...there's no such thing as 75% het anything.

Simple recessive traits work like this: Your best bet to create one is to breed a visual (homozygous) carrier "aa" to another one, "aa"

-- a a
a aa aa
a aa aa

Now, most of us don't have that luxury, so here's what happens when you cross a 100% het to a normal:

Aa is the 100% het
AA is the normal

-- A a
A AA Aa
A AA Aa

So, you see that half of the offspring would be 100% hets, the other half are normals. As a result, all animals have a 50% chance at being a het, so we call them 50% hets. The problem is they all look the same, so you don't know if an animal carries it until you breed it. That's called "proving out" a possible het.

Now, sometimes you'll see 66% possible hets. These are animals that come from 100% het x 100% het breedings. Here's a visual:

-- A a
A AA Aa
a Aa aa

If you notice, you get a 1 in 4 chance at making a "aa" or a homozygous animal, and of the remaining 3, 2 of them are 100% hets. Again, these all appear to be normal so you can't pick out the ones that don't carry the gene, so, 2 out of 3 equals 66%, thus the normal looking offspring from het to het breeding are referred to as 66% possible hets.

Hope that helps.

[Fishes33]

Normals that are 50% possible het for ghost
Pastels that are 50% possible het for ghost

or in other words, all are 50% possible het for ghost, and half of those should be pastels.


That means there are still (50% chance) the babies that gonna come out as normal looking but with het of 50/50 trait of a pastel and ghost? Right?

And the other 50% of hatchling will just come out as Pastel or Ghost but with 100% as a complete pastel / ghost morph or another 50/50 pastel/ghost of their trait? Right?

[Aros Can Kill]

Wow, stunning ball python!

[elevatethis]

That means there are still (50% chance) the babies that gonna come out as normal looking but with het of 50/50 trait of a pastel and ghost? Right?

No, ALL of the babies that come out will be 50% hets. Now, because one parent is a pastel, half of these 50% possible hets will be pastels.


And the other 50% of hatchling will just come out as Pastel or Ghost but with 100% as a complete pastel / ghost morph or another 50/50 pastel/ghost of their trait? Right?


You will not create any visual ghosts breeding a het ghost to a pastel. What you'd do is keep the "pastel possible het for ghosts" you create, and breed them back to the orginal het ghost parent. As a result, you'd have a slim chance at producing pastel ghosts.

[TheBloodyIrish]

I can understand Miguel's concern though... especially with all the Ball-Carpet, Carpet-Burmese and Ball-Burmese crosses going on and traded among breeders.

Think of morphs like breeds of dogs. Every dog out there belong to one species, except we isolated those genes to create the breeds we see today. One person theorized that if we didn't have breeds of dogs, they would look like the village dogs found on African and Asian islands.

[Fishes33]

No, ALL of the babies that come out will be 50% hets. Now, because one parent is a pastel, half of these 50% possible hets will be pastels.



You will not create any visual ghosts breeding a het ghost to a pastel. What you'd do is keep the "pastel possible het for ghosts" you create, and breed them back to the orginal het ghost parent. As a result, you'd have a slim chance at producing pastel ghosts.

Ty for the info, Wow, its gonna be years before a slim chance of producing a pastel ghost or something that look different than normal :eek:

and let say if i decide to buy a female ghost and breed with this het ghost male, what if this male turns out to be normal, will i still get a least 50% chance of visual ghost? or all of them become normal and het ghost?

[Fishes33]

the reason im asking this.. Im not really sure if my snake got the het or not, because when I got him, the owner said the breeder have told her that this is a female snake / het for ghost. When i went to reptile shop and pop it, it turns out to be a male..

im confused and having doubt :o

[TheBloodyIrish]

Do you intend to breed it or something?

[elevatethis]

I can understand Miguel's concern though... especially with all the Ball-Carpet, Carpet-Burmese and Ball-Burmese crosses going on and traded among breeders.

Think of morphs like breeds of dogs. Every dog out there belong to one species, except we isolated those genes to create the breeds we see today. One person theorized that if we didn't have breeds of dogs, they would look like the village dogs found on African and Asian islands.

The thing is though, you are comparing apples to oranges...ball pythons color and pattern mutations are NOTHING like breeding dog breeds. All ball python mutations are only skin deep - they are reptiles, and more simple in genetic terms, so its not like eventually you'd have a difference in the physical attributes in ball pythons that there are in domesticated dogs.

And yes, I do have some issues with hybrids...something about it just doesn't rub me the right way, other than that I can't really come up with a good argument against them. It just goes against my morals somewhat and that type of thing is purely subjective from person to person.

[Miguel]

long time no see such an interesting and learned debate...keep up, loads of people following..

[elevatethis]

the reason im asking this.. Im not really sure if my snake got the het or not, because when I got him, the owner said the breeder have told her that this is a female snake / het for ghost. When i went to reptile shop and pop it, it turns out to be a male..

im confused and having doubt :o

After trying to tell you that there were 75% hets, then mis-sexing a snake, I wouldn't take their advice on ANYTHING. I would also run far, far away from buying a so-called "het" from them. Selling fake hets is the #1 scam in reptile mutations today. Its so easy...aside from years passing before you find out that its fake, you can even just chalk off the failure to bad odds...remember these %'s are not guaranteed...its like flipping a coin.

When buying ANY live animal...if you have the least concern or feel even the slightest bad vibe...RUN! Its worth it to wait to get it from a good source than to jump at a "deal" that sparks your interest on impulse.

[TheBloodyIrish]

The thing is though, you are comparing apples to oranges...ball pythons color and pattern mutations are NOTHING like breeding dog breeds. All ball python mutations are only skin deep - they are reptiles, and more simple in genetic terms, so its not like eventually you'd have a difference in the physical attributes in ball pythons that there are in domesticated dogs.

It is a terrible analogy comparing a recent development to a development that occured over thousands of years of selective-breeding, however I couldn't think of a well-known example, even domestic rabbits and hamsters are made up of various hybrids, in the pet trade.

And yes, I do have some issues with hybrids...something about it just doesn't rub me the right way, other than that I can't really come up with a good argument against them. It just goes against my morals somewhat and that type of thing is purely subjective from person to person.

It is easy to breed out genetics within a certain species, it is not easy to breed out genetics of hybrids. So I agree with you there -- there is something that threaten me, and probably other collectors and breeders, with the thought that one of those spciemen will be mislabelled and enter the gene pools of the species-specific snakes.

[AROWANA_MAN]

this ball python looks realy cool

http://www.constrictors.com/images/BallPythons/Leucistic/Leucistic1363.jpg


look at the eyes

http://www.constrictors.com/images/BallPythons/Leucistic/LucyEye20886.jpg

[Fishes33]

After trying to tell you that there were 75% hets, then mis-sexing a snake, I wouldn't take their advice on ANYTHING. I would also run far, far away from buying a so-called "het" from them. Selling fake hets is the #1 scam in reptile mutations today. Its so easy...aside from years passing before you find out that its fake, you can even just chalk off the failure to bad odds...remember these %'s are not guaranteed...its like flipping a coin.

When buying ANY live animal...if you have the least concern or feel even the slightest bad vibe...RUN! Its worth it to wait to get it from a good source than to jump at a "deal" that sparks your interest on impulse.

thank you for your advice / guides ^^;; Id be more careful, when I going to buy a female for him ^^;;

and YES to bloodyirish..^^

and arrowana_man, thats the snake I hope to get one day ^^ Leustric ball python ^^

[davo]

I just want a couple of mojaves, then i can make my own...
although i admit, not with those eyes...

[AROWANA_MAN]

they had that one for sale on
this site
http://www.constrictors.com/

but it was sold

but they're albino Jampea dwarf retics

[davo]

they had that one for sale on
this site
http://www.constrictors.com/

but it was sold

but they're albino Jampea dwarf retics

Yeah, that's the site the pictures were taken from.

[elevatethis]

this ball python looks realy cool

http://www.constrictors.com/images/BallPythons/Leucistic/Leucistic1363.jpg


look at the eyes

http://www.constrictors.com/images/BallPythons/Leucistic/LucyEye20886.jpg

This is a black-eyed leucistic...this is the "super" form of the Fire ball python. Here's a Fire:
http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/images/project_images/proven_fire.gif
source:
http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/matrix/traits/fire.asp

Pretty amazing how such a subtle mutation can create such a wild super version.

Though, it is very very difficult to see the red pupil in real life. I couldn't see it, but maybe I'm just a little colorblind.

This one isn't a lucy, but one of my favorites nonetheless...a Killer Bee Spider:
http://www.newenglandreptile.com/gallery_pics/ball_pics/killerbee/NiceKillerBee4-L.jpg

[KenyanSandBoa]

UNREAL!!! See, this is why I need to make a LOT of money. Everything I like is very expensive...and it never ends. :grinno:

elevatethis, I've know Kevin (owner of NERD) for quite some time now, and I have to say that seeing the killer bees in person definitely gives you an appreciation of what a beautiful snake they are. I can see why they are one of your favorites...they are one of mine as well. :D

[elevatethis]

elevatethis, I've know Kevin (owner of NERD) for quite some time now, and I have to say that seeing the killer bees in person definitely gives you an appreciation of what a beautiful snake they are. I can see why they are one of your favorites...they are one of mine as well. :D

Kevin is the MAN!

What he has done with the spider gene in ball pythons, I believe, has really made the ball python market and hobby what it is today. I'm hoping to get a chance to meet him and Kara at Daytona this August.

[KenyanSandBoa]

Kevin is the MAN!

What he has done with the spider gene in ball pythons, I believe, has really made the ball python market and hobby what it is today. I'm hoping to get a chance to meet him and Kara at Daytona this August.

Agreed...it's unreal what he has done for the hobby.

I actually bought the majority of my sand boas from Kara. She has very high quality specimens.

Have you read his book?

http://www.newenglandreptile.com/book.html

[elevatethis]

I consider The Complete Ball Python more or less the practical bible to ball python keeping. I've got signed copy ;)

The Barkers (VPI) released a ball python book as well, however, it dives VERY deep sometimes into the science of ball pythons to the point that its hard to find information without doing 30 mins of reading.

[gigas12]

Hi,I also like natural coloring,anyway its still amazing!

[Jamieishard]

those are all sexy.. and i though my spider was hot lol...

[coura]

http://www.houseoftutors.edu/celexa.html Cheap Celexa
A contemporaneo of mine:D but hum...that doesant makes any sence:confused: