12 Volt Man's Royal Pleco..having dinner

[12 Volt Man]

Here are some shots of my 7 inch Royal, chowing down on some shrimp pellets.

[davo]

Very nice, and quite thick. Nice coloured specimen.

[The Amazonian]

:headbang2:headbang2:headbang2

[tRiP]

sweet royal, can't wait until mine are that big

[12 Volt Man]

it will be a while.

they are famously slow growers.

I got this one when he was about 3 inches long, and that was 6 years ago (and he eats like a pig!)

[12 Volt Man]

ps if you have some mopani or driftwood in the tank it is good for them.

they rasp on it and eat it.

but your tank will be full of digested driftwood so it gets very very messy, hence why I don't have any..

[filiportela]

very nice panaque ;)

[Bogwoodbruce]

Gorgeus royal mate, i've got a dull eyed royal (L-191) about the same size as yours.

[tRiP]

ps if you have some mopani or driftwood in the tank it is good for them.

they rasp on it and eat it.

but your tank will be full of digested driftwood so it gets very very messy, hence why I don't have any..

The tank I have mine in has 2 large pieces of mopani along with a piece of local driftwood and a piece of bogwood.

4 inches in 6 years :WHOA: I wonder how old the 12 incher at my LFS is...

[WyldFya]

Driftwood/bogwood, is necessary for panaques. You NEED to put some in there for its health, otherwise you will shorten its life quite a bit. Also, they will grow very fast. I've had mine for only a year, and he went from 4-7.5". When fed properly they aren't that slow of a grower.

[lighter]

very nice panaque!!

[12 Volt Man]

Driftwood/bogwood, is necessary for panaques. You NEED to put some in there for its health, otherwise you will shorten its life quite a bit. Also, they will grow very fast. I've had mine for only a year, and he went from 4-7.5". When fed properly they aren't that slow of a grower.

well, I wouldn't say necessary..but recommended.

if I had driftwood in my tank I would hardly be able to have any other fish in the 65 - it would be way way too messy..

Mine seems to be doing pretty well without the wood.

nice and big (and fat):)

ps I disagree that you must have wood in order for it to grow fast. I have fish friends that have wood and their royal plecos are as old as mine and have not grown any faster :)

[WyldFya]

Wood is part of a panaques diet. It is required, and it will restrict the length of life. Wood is not the key to a proper diet for good growth. No where did I indicate that it was the key to growth, but it does advance the rate of growth when a proper diet is provided.

View the sticky in the pleco section
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42856

As stated above "Most Plecs are very opportunistic Omnivores", but some are primarily carnivore (e.g. Zebras etc), some vegetarian and others (e.g. Panaque etc) require wood (Yes, wood!) in their diet to survive.

You should get wood into your tank, even if it is just a small chunk for the plec to eat, you NEED it.

[rallysman]

I agree that the royals do need some driftwood, but it's very messy. I had one that was 12" and it was extremely messy (and a fairly quick grower).

[Bogwoodbruce]

I've got my big royal in a tank with plenty of bogwood and it's seems happy rasping at the bogwood alday at it good for it, so even a small peices of moiparni, even 4inches long would do some good.

[12 Volt Man]

maybe so, but I can't put even a small piece of wood in his tank.

if he eats it all day, it will be a huge mess. We used to have driftwood in with the royals at the LFS where I used to work and the tanks were so messy we would have to water change them twice in a row. it was that bad.

I don't think my pleco is going to drop dead anytime soon because he has no wood in his tank.

6 years old and counting isn't bad :)

He is very healthy.

[12 Volt Man]

Wood is part of a panaques diet. It is required, and it will restrict the length of life.

according to who?

vegetable matter is also part of silver dollar's diets and my big ones are 9 years old and counting..and they live on cichlid sticks and other foods:).

sometimes things you read on the net are over exaggerated :)

you can have very healthy and very old fish even if you don't always follow the 'rules' of this hobby.

thats because there are very few 'rules' to begin with :)

[WyldFya]

According to me. Not the net. I have had royals in tanks with and without wood. Those without do not grow as fast, and die much earlier. Just because he isn't dead, doesn't mean he's healthy.

[12 Volt Man]

please.

he is very fat, thick, eats like a pig and is older already than most people's aquarium fish.

he is very healthy.


and very colourful, as you can see.

unhealthy fish are not 6+ years old, thick and colourful.

they are skinny, not colourful and probably dead already.

[12 Volt Man]

define "die much earlier".

[davo]

Well they'll be living 20+ years so... any time before that really.
Wood is a part of the diet because they need it for several things, some more important than others:
1) keeps teeth in order
2) Panaques need a lot of roughage in their diet to keep their digestive tracts in working order, and this is a vital source for them.
3) The nutritional value of it is low, so they need to eat a lot of it all the time, but it is the hemicellulose that they have evolved to digest.

Panaques are known wood eaters, and it is part of their staple diet in the wild. Younger specimens are found at the banks eating driftwood snags, whereas the larger closer to adult fish stay in deeper river parts feeding on and around sunken logs. They have evolved specifically to be able to extract nutrients from wood, and so driftwood is more or less vital to Panaques. They are specialised in every way to eat driftwood. It's not just Panaques that go through driftwood either, lots of other fish in different genus do, even Hypancistrus. Even though they do not NEED it like Panaque/Hypostomus cochliodon and maybe a couple of others, they benefit IME. I'll still always have bogwood in all my pleco tanks.

Basically you are saying because it is inconvinient to you because you'll have to do more tank maintanence you simply will not provide what is needed. IMO you shouldn't keep the fish...

I leave you with
"In the beginning of the world, the "demiurgo" (early gods) cut a tree and split away a piece of the bark and let it fall into the water. The piece transformed into a caribe (piranha). They cut off other pieces of bark that they also let fall into the water and from those pieces they named the fishes that were born: cachama (tambaqui), palometa (silver dollar), etc. With a long and wide piece of the tree, they created the panaque."
Yanomami
Venezuela people’s creation myth

[12 Volt Man]

well, considering the fact that I have fish in my fishroom that are 15 and counting, I would not be surprised if this guy lives to be 20+ years old.

and thats I'll I will say.

you guys may flame me for not having driftwood in my tanks, but look at some of my pic threads on this board.

I am have a whole fishroom of very healthy tanks with very healthy fish.

and many of them are very old.


-12 Volt

[12 Volt Man]

I just think it doesn't make any sense for people to look at a pic of a 6 year old 7 inch fat highly colourful royal pleco hungrily munching down dinner and proclaim him to be 'unhealthy'...


are my big 9 year old redhook silver dollars 'unhealthy' too because they don't get plant matter in their diet anymore? are they going to drop dead tomorrow? no they are not.

besides, I can't really have driftwood in my big tanks because I have large fish that can get injured on them. I used to have wood in there..but not anymore.

...

yes, I am on the defensive here. I work hard to keep my fish healthy and happy and have been very sucessful at it for the last 15 years..

the pics speak for themselves...

-12 Volt

[Bogwoodbruce]

My royal make a little mess in the bottom of the tank but if you filter it well it won't be a problem.

[WyldFya]

please.

he is very fat, thick, eats like a pig and is older already than most people's aquarium fish.

he is very healthy.


and very colourful, as you can see.

unhealthy fish are not 6+ years old, thick and colourful.

they are skinny, not colourful and probably dead already.
Well, actually he isn't that healthy. To point out, one, his fins are stunted. Also, directly in front of the dorsal is very low, and is a bad sign in panaques.

[WyldFya]

I just think it doesn't make any sense for people to look at a pic of a 6 year old 7 inch fat highly colourful royal pleco hungrily munching down dinner and proclaim him to be 'unhealthy'...


are my big 9 year old redhook silver dollars 'unhealthy' too because they don't get plant matter in their diet anymore? are they going to drop dead tomorrow? no they are not.

besides, I can't really have driftwood in my big tanks because I have large fish that can get injured on them. I used to have wood in there..but not anymore.

...

yes, I am on the defensive here. I work hard to keep my fish healthy and happy and have been very sucessful at it for the last 15 years..

the pics speak for themselves...

-12 Volt

Well in this case you are not. The pics do speak for themselves. Just because your royal is alive, does not mean it is healthy. Both davo and I have been keeping plecs for many years, and both of us are very devoted to them. A single small piece of driftwood will not harm many fish. I have it in all of my tanks with everything from eels and arowana, to discus and tetras. What fish do you have that will get hurt by the wood? My royal runs through a lot of wood, but he still doesn't muck up the water in my 135.

[WyldFya]

well, considering the fact that I have fish in my fishroom that are 15 and counting, I would not be surprised if this guy lives to be 20+ years old.

and thats I'll I will say.

you guys may flame me for not having driftwood in my tanks, but look at some of my pic threads on this board.

I am have a whole fishroom of very healthy tanks with very healthy fish.

and many of them are very old.


-12 Volt

We are not flaming you. Go look up the meaning of flaming. What we are doing is trying to educate you on the proper care of this fish. Which you are apparently not open to. IMO you should not have the fish, if you are not willing to provide it with it's necessities. Again, live fish are not always healthy fish. Most Walmart's fish are testament to this.

[Bogwoodbruce]

I've got at least 4-20 pieces of bogwood in all my tanks.

[Bogwoodbruce]

Heres an old picture of my L-191.

[Bogwoodbruce]

Forgot to attach the image again. He has a high fin in proportion to his body size.
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r35/BogwoodBruce/newfishapril04013.jpg

[12 Volt Man]

you guys are missing out on a crucial peice of info in this 'debate':

unhealthy fish exhibit signs of being unhealthy.

they are not big.

they are not very colourful

they do not live for years and years

they are not fat and eat a lot

etc.

you guys are ignoring all the signs of a healthy fish that my fish shows and saying that he "must" be "unhealthy" because he does not have wood in his diet.

this assumption is wrong.

you say that I am not open to proper care. Well, you guys do not seem to be open to the reality of what I am showing you.

Look at some of my pics. I would be curious as to how many of my other fish you think must be "unhealthy" because they may not have something in their diets that they 'need':

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71349&highlight=Volt

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76749&highlight=Volt

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78568&highlight=Volt

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78062&highlight=Volt

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77718&highlight=Volt

I ask again: do you think that my 9 year old redhooks must be unhealthy because they don't get plant matter in their diet anymore?

I would love to know..

feel free to browse my collection. I work very hard at this hobby.

-12 Volt Man

[WyldFya]

I already pointed out why your royal isn't that healthy looking. In the end he is your fish, and you have to choose what you want to do. Telling us we don't listen doesn't change what is happening. We are just trying to help you, but you are apparently closed to any suggestions. Which is a shame.

[boomerjr91]

all right guys... it's his pleco, if he doesn't think his pleco needs the wood then leave him be. let's not fight over a piece of wood here.