View Full Version : W/D Pump Question
I just finished setting my first wet dry about 2 hours ago and noticed something I was not expecting: Return pump seems to be sending up air along with water :eek: It's not much just a slow trickle of bubbles from the return nuzzle. I am also surprised to see that the flow it generates is not very powerful. It is noticably weaker than that of a fluval 304 or a HOT magnum. Just for the record its a CA 2200 by Catalina Aquatics. Should I be concerned? :confused:
if there is a bubbles coming out from your return, it usually means there is a hole somewhere along the return line. Look for leaks. The amount of output on the return depends on the pump you are using and the head height the pump is working at. Look at the specifications of the pump for more information about your pump
Dr Joe
07-09-2007, 8:23 AM
Air bubbles will come from before the pump (suction side) otherwise it would be a leak (pressure/outlet side) only other option is a type of cavitation but doubtful.
Your pump:
http://www.catalinaaquarium.com/product_info.php?products_id=1074&osCsid=9247ce71993e86de43ad5ff72edea91a
supplier was gracious enough to not include head pressure spec.s for your pump, just 800gph @ 0 head.
Since it is a residential pond pump I'm going to compare it more with beckett pumps which on average drop 66% @ 5ft of head pressure. These are made mainly for pond features 1-2ft of head pressure.
So maybe 250gph @ 4ft.?
Petsmart has a flow meter
http://www.petsmart.com/global/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=84552444181 5374&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302030143&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=2534374302023693&bmUID=1183983643957&itemNo=7&Ntt=flow&In=All&previousText=flow&N=2
but it only goes to 250gph and you'd peek it out. Wish someone carried a high flow one that was inexpensive.
Dr Joe
.
I think I should've also mentioned that no matter how I tweak the intake water level in the sump only covers the pump approximately 3/4. My guess is that the pump itself is sucking up air (I can see bubbles running up the tubing right from the pump's output. Are there any tricks for raising the water level in the sump?
rallysman
07-09-2007, 8:48 PM
Are there any tricks for raising the water level in the sump?
add more water in the tank.
The tank level should never fluctuate, it should only change in the sump.
CHOMPERS
07-10-2007, 5:24 AM
... Wish someone carried a high flow one that was inexpensive.
Dr Joe
.
http://blue-white.com/Products/VariableArea/F-300/071_TECH_F300_IPS%20Pipe.pdf
Pricing (for 1st quarter 2007) starts at $48.
Flow rates up to 1600 gpm.
CHOMPERS
07-10-2007, 5:31 AM
I just found a cheaper one in my books. Rolochem makes them starting at $28, but I can't find a website for them.
Dr Joe
07-10-2007, 11:28 AM
http://blue-white.com/Products/VariableArea/F-300/071_TECH_F300_IPS%20Pipe.pdf
Pricing (for 1st quarter 2007) starts at $48.
Flow rates up to 1600 gpm.
1.5" pvc only 20-100gpm :(
Dr Joe
.
CHOMPERS
07-10-2007, 11:37 AM
What gph or gpm are you looking for? And what price range. I'll make a run to the distributor to see what they have and what the specs are.
Dr Joe
07-10-2007, 11:38 AM
I just found a cheaper one in my books. Rolochem makes them starting at $28, but I can't find a website for them.
Who's selling them, google failed me :( no spec.'s
Dr Joe
.
CHOMPERS
07-10-2007, 11:41 AM
SCP Pool Supply. Their website is password locked. I don't have an online account so I have to wait till I get down there.
Guys, help me out please. I can't raise the waterlevel in the tank any further as it is already filled to the brim. It seems that the overflow is not sucking water out fast enough (the tube connecting two parts seems to be only half full at best). I am trying to approach this from the perspective of simple physics. Unfortunately my knowledge of physics is rudimentary... If I find a way to either raise the sump or lower the overflow, will this shortenning of the distance water has to travel affect the flow? Bottom line is that I need to increase the flow somehow without affecting the amount of water in the tank :confused:
rallysman
07-12-2007, 8:03 AM
Guys, help me out please. I can't raise the waterlevel in the tank any further as it is already filled to the brim. It seems that the overflow is not sucking water out fast enough (the tube connecting two parts seems to be only half full at best). I am trying to approach this from the perspective of simple physics. Unfortunately my knowledge of physics is rudimentary... If I find a way to either raise the sump or lower the overflow, will this shortenning of the distance water has to travel affect the flow? Bottom line is that I need to increase the flow somehow without affecting the amount of water in the tank :confused:
Either your overflow is too small, not working right or your pump is too big. What kind of overflow and pump do you have?
The water level should never be higher than the overflow.
vanimate
07-12-2007, 8:54 AM
Guys, help me out please. I can't raise the waterlevel in the tank any further as it is already filled to the brim. It seems that the overflow is not sucking water out fast enough (the tube connecting two parts seems to be only half full at best). I am trying to approach this from the perspective of simple physics. Unfortunately my knowledge of physics is rudimentary... If I find a way to either raise the sump or lower the overflow, will this shortenning of the distance water has to travel affect the flow? Bottom line is that I need to increase the flow somehow without affecting the amount of water in the tank :confused:
I can't raise the waterlevel in the tank any further as it is already filled to the brim.
- You dont have to raise the water level in the main tank, just in the sump tank so the pump is fully submerged and not sucking air.
It seems that the overflow is not sucking water out fast enough (the tube connecting two parts seems to be only half full at best).
- the tube connecting the two should be full of water no matter how fast the flow through it. The air in your "U" part of the overflow should have no air in it. This may be the reason that your overflow is "sucking water out fast enough ". But if its not overflowing fast enough for your pump,you would know as your tank would be overflowing onto the floor untill your sump went dry.
If I find a way to either raise the sump or lower the overflow, will this shortenning of the distance water has to travel affect the flow?
- Theres only a certain point to how low your overflow will lower (HOB style).
Raising the sump would decrease the head pressure on the pump and result in a higher flow. What flow rate are you trying to achieve?
Bud8Fan
07-12-2007, 9:54 AM
1.5" pvc only 20-100gpm :(
Dr Joe
.
Remember that translates into 1200 - 6000 gallons per hour.
I broke down and bought mine from here.
http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/product.detail/iid/11515
At least I got a kick butt catalog out of the deal.
What kind of overflow / output from the tank do you have set up? This sounds like the problem area.
Is it just a hole drilled in the back of your tank at the surface with PVC piping down to the sump? I have read that if you put a regular 90 degree elbow right at the back of the tank where the water comes out, this will greatly impede water flow. You need to use a 90 "street" elbow here (its a swept 90, not a hard turn 90). However, this may not even be the case since we don't know exactly how your set up is done.
Can you get us some pictures of the setup? Make sure to take pics of everything. It will help us diagnose the problem, plus I always learn some new ideas from seeing what other people have done. Love to see what you did!
Congrats on tackling a DIY project. Sounds like it just needs a little tweaking.
Every time I build something I always come across something I didn't think of, and have to redo the project in some way. It pays off in learning though, so I don't mind my screw ups. You know the saying about learning from our mistakes...... well I have really learned a lot! :WHOA:
This is why I got my tank drilled for my sump and it will always start and I use a power head that came with a sponge and I put an elbow pice on the intake instead of the spong to draw water closer to the bottom so there is less chance of air being sucked up when the water level drops due to evaperation. If you can take the bottom part of the pump off and there is a hole where the water gets sucked up do the same as I did and that will solve part of your problem.good luck