on going ich problem

[Mantis411]

i have had ich in my main tank for sometime now and it has cost me a good number of fish... right now i moved all my live rock into a bucket with fresh saltwater and have moved all my inverts into another tank (is there anyway to kill the ich probably living in my lr without killing it?). ive put copper meds in my main tank (now only containing fish) it was been 2 or 3 days now and all the fish still have ich... how long does it normally take copper meds to effectily kill ich? or any other sudjections on other meds, or methods would be sweet

[Max]

Umh, please tell me you have a bare bottom tank and a spare filter / power head etc. If not you have not only killed the ich but, you've also made the tank unihabitable to all of your inverts for ever. You'll have to get the live rock back in there pretty fast to as it's most of your filtration but, the good news is the copper meds killed the ich on contact pretty much it's like cyanide to inverts. :faint:

[Mantis411]

um... lets just say by chance i do have sand and dont have a back up filter..... i was already planning to do a full water change (or multiple 1/2 changes) its impossable to reintroduce my inverts without getting a new sand bed and filter (could i just change the filter media?).....

P.S. Max your my savior on this site haha

[Max]

Well, yes it is it will be toxic to them always . Maybe, even if you remove all the sand the filter and give the tank a good scrub down. I hate to tell you this but, all you would have had to do was take the fish out of the tank for 3 weeks it would have broken the parasites life cycle. You could have used f.w. dips in q.t. to kill the ich on the fish to or treated the q.t. with copper if you had to.
Sorry, I wish that I knew you had this issue it's fairly east to sort out.

[Bgonz]

How long has the tank been set-up.



bob

[Max]

You might be able to reintroduce if you were to remove all of the sand the filters etc. However there is a good chance that there is enough copper in the seems of your tank to still be toxic. I would get a copper absorbing chem if after removing all substrate and the filters and cross your fingers mate. I wish you the best I really do. Another issue is that your live rock provides most of the filtration for the fish and you'll need to get it back in there asap. Keep a very close eye on your params after you do you'll possibly have a mass invert die off. Sorry, to be all gloom and doom .
Max

[Mantis411]

the 32g tank has been set up for a little over a year now, I've had ich problems before and i did remove the fish from the tank and treated (copper, and freshwater dunks) them in a different tank for 4 weeks(i only had 3 fish at the time), and when i put them back in the main tank the ich was still there, but not nearly as bad as i use to be and eventually seemed to go away, but after moving over the summer it came back in full force, i then got a UV sterillizer which hasn;t helped at all....i still have ich in my tank after almost a week for treatment and is mainly effecting one fish... so im starting to wonder if im treating for the right illness, what happens is that in the morning when i turn the lights ons is i can see white dots on my skunk clown who is always showing signs for irritation and i cannot see white dots on my other fish however they show signs of irritation in the morning but signs dicipate as the day goes on... any help?

[Max]

It's probably the copper in the water it wil iritate your fish's skins. I would do about a 100% water change as any ich that may have been in your tank is most certainly dead .
hth
Max

[Mantis411]

ok thanks for the info ill get right on that.... and in order to reintroduce my inverts im gonna have to change my sand bed and filter media? or change the entire filter?

[Max]

Ok, if you remove all of the sand from the tank and the filter media and pads and sponges and run water through it in your tub or sink for an hour or so it MIGHT be ok to put your inverts back into the tank. If you can find chemical pads that remove copper I would also add those. Copper affects inverts like cyanide affects most other things I've known people that had enough copper left in the seems of their tank after removing everything to kill off their inverts. I think that your stars MAY be ok as their blood is based on hemoglobin but, I won't even swear to that. Most inverts O2 carrier involves copper not iron like ours that's why it's so toxic to them.
hth
Max

[Mantis411]

ok thanks for all the info

[Twitterbait]

ok, hold the phone...

let me clear a few things up. your tank is now a copper tank, always will be, even if you were to clear everything out and replace it all, the copper has infused with the tank itself. just ask anyone who knows metalurgy or even better, semiconductor assembly... Copper is one of the most invasive and impossible metals on the face of the earth. it is nearly impossible to remove and you will always have a risk of copper poisoning your inverts. time to look at a new tank system and turn your old one into FO or QT.

...copper sucks in general...

To treat ich effectivley you need to look at the cause. A fish will not catch Ich unless its immune system is damaged from stress. stress is usually caused by a parameter in the water being off. look at your water quality and see if it may have a problem... PH, waste, phosphate, ammonia, nitrogenous compounds, temperature, and salinity. if you fix the water the fish will usually kick the ich on their own and get better. if you add some garlic to their food it will boost their immune system and help them kick it as well.

good luck and sorry to hear about the problems.

[Mantis411]

ok this is the most anoying thing ive ever seen, my fish still have ich, and its worse then it was before, should i treat again? or should i try a different treatment?....... its starting to piss me off :cry:

[Mantis411]

ok so... ill try just keeping my peramiters good for a while and see if that works... and then ill post back

[Max]

I don't see how they could still have ick if you treated with copper. I sure hope that they don 't have brook man. I wish you the best and keep us informed.

[Twitterbait]

me too, good luck. one thing, could you please post your parameters? PH, alk, calcium, ammonia, nit, nit, phosphate, temp, and salinity?

[Mantis411]

ok my permaiters have are:
temp - 27C
Salt - 1.021
pH - 8.2-8.3
nirtate - 0
ammonia - 0
nitrite - 0

those are all the test i have, and since my last post they seem to be doing much better... with the exeption of my pink skunk who died (but i think he was beyond repair by the time it got fixed:()

thanks for all the help everyone it was very helpful

P.S. i also rentroduced one of the hermit crabs 2 days ago and he seems to be doing fine.. so should i put back all the others or keep them in a sperate tank?

[Twitterbait]

Ok, that looks good, with the lower salinity you will have less problems as well. don't be afraid to go as low as 1.018. your corals should even be fine at that level, mine are.

does your tank have plenty of hiding spots for the fish? if they cannot hide then they will not be happy.

i would order a phosphate test kit too.

[Max]

I wouldn't reintroduce any inverts until you had a copper test ran on your water. There is a chance that some of the more copper tollerant inverts might do ok and other's that are far less copper tollerant like shrimp, stars, corals etc. will die on contact. Did you get a new sand bed? I wish you the best man but, I have seen lots of people make their tanks totally unihabitable to invertabrates . Your fish might also have skin irritation due to exposure to copper I don't think that it would be possible for ick to survive even a short exposure.
hth
Max

[Mantis411]

ok just an update, my ich is all gone... and has been for sometime now.... thanks for all the help