African cichlids [Archive] - MonsterFishKeepers.com

gomezladdams

11-11-2005, 12:13 AM

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/gallery/watermark.php?file=2/new21.JPG
Got these guys for free and was wondering how other people care for them.I hear they need a vegetarian diet what do people feed them?It looks like I have 1 male and 2 females should I look for a few more females?My water is ph 8.0 should I put some shells or coral in the tank?

rweedon

11-11-2005, 12:51 AM

they live in all conditions they are really hardy and often times kill each other for no reason... whoever told you vegitarian diet should be slapped! no really go slap them before you read the rest of this... did you do it? good! now give them a good quality cichlid pellet like hikari gold or staple... and they will be just fine...

SinisterKisses

11-11-2005, 1:11 AM

Excuse me? At least half of all mbuna species (which those guys clearly are), are herbivores. Feeding them Hikari Gold will give them bloat and kill them. Christ.

I feed all my African Mbuna spirulina flakes, exclusively. They love it, they're happy, healthy and gorgeous.

catfish

11-11-2005, 2:56 AM

Ash

11-11-2005, 10:12 AM

I would also agree, I have 3 mbuna's, 1 of them being a male and I feed all of them nl pellets and they absolutley love these things!! Not only are they healthy but they are some of the most vibrantly colored cichlids I have seen (other then what some of you have ^_^ ) If you feed you cichlids non-herbavore like pellets, flakes or floats they will not die, or otherwise mine sould have been dead 4 months ago. Yes they may eat herbivore like things but I see those things eat about anything from ghost shrimp to flakes and live fine. If you want to argue me fine, but then please explain to me as to why all of mine are alive - kicking and well. Also explain as to why they make cichlid pellets?? I would suggest any form of pellet's, hikari or new life are good. They are also very hardy your pH should be fine - I have extremely hard water and mine do just dandy =) Your fish are very nice looking btw!

p45 has been gone I havent seen him around for awhile... where did he dissapear to???

Gooda

11-11-2005, 10:19 AM

Few animals of any species are strictly herbavors or carnivors. Cichlids also fall into this catagory along with about a million other fish, Even my pleco's LOVE shrimp.

But a fish with a ballanced well rounded diet is a happy fish.

Ash

11-11-2005, 10:26 AM

Ornatapinnis

11-11-2005, 11:39 AM

THe fish in the picture appear to be a pseudotropheus species like ornatus or crabo perhaps. (the yellow and black one's, the other looks like a mutt).

Sinisterkiss is correct in saying that most mbuna are mostly herbivores. Many are primarly algae grazers in the wild. I would have thought that this would have been better known here. The so called "malawi bloat" is typically caused by to meaty of a diet. Pseudotropheus are not real bad about this like some of the other africans are, seems to be more of a problem with juvaniles than adults.

These fish should be fed a diet with more vegtable matter in thier diet than meat. I use a good full spectrum food like those offered by OSI or similar but I also feed alot of spirulina and Ocean nutrition's Formula Two. These fish clearly will survie off other diets but it is not what is best for them.

As per the original post, a good multicomplex diet that includes lots of vegtable matter is the correct diet for these fish. These guys will tolerate a broad range of conditions but a ph of 8.0 to 8.3 with very hard water is what they are supposed to be in. Your 8.0 is fine. Adding shells and such is not needed and most likley would not buffer the ph higher than it allready is anyway. Temp in the upper 70's to lower 80's is good.

I'm not sure how you have determined the sex on these. I can not tell in the picture what they are. For breeding (which I am not suggesting to do with these) you would want several female to one male. For a cominuty type enviroment, have lots of rocks and caves and buy additional fish that are very differant than the ones you allready have. THis will help with agressiveness amongst themselves but you most likley will still have some personality problems between them.

gomezladdams

11-11-2005, 3:18 PM

No Im not looking to breed them,What kind of tankmates would you suggest?I detect some difference in opinion about diet.I gave them some spirolina flakes and they went nuts!!
Since they like hard alkaline water can I put some seashells in the tank?I got some cool ones including an abalone I found in north cali last year.

gomezladdams

11-11-2005, 5:33 PM

got a better photo of the blue one while doing my waterchanges.I thought it looks like the male Melanochromis chipokae in ashs african cichlid post,any opinions?
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/gallery/watermark.php?file=2/44e.JPG

SinisterKisses

11-11-2005, 6:37 PM

That is not a Chipokae of any kind. Its a zebra type, and I'm not sure its a pure anything.

Ornatapinnis

11-11-2005, 8:25 PM

It's not a melanochromis, it's more preudotropheus like but I bet it's a cross / hybrid. It appears to be a male, it's anal fin is elongated and has egg spotts.

Good possible canidates for additional tank mates would be auratus, chipokae, other zebras (red, blue, albino, cobalt, etc.) Venustus, polystigma, livingstoni, fus****einatus, trewavasae, fullaborni, tropheops, elongatus, demasoni, and many more. You got tons of choices and colors to choose from. I would suggest to get fish only from lake Malawi. Don't get peacocks (alunacara species) as they are kind of wimpy compaired to mbuna.

The shells would be fine, will not hurt anything at all.

Joel

gomezladdams

11-12-2005, 11:05 AM

Cool Ive been wanting to use those shells to decorate.Is that how you sex these species the egg spots on the anal fin?

SinisterKisses

11-12-2005, 11:40 AM

No, its not - consider that a 'cichlid myth' ;). Especially not with mbuna. True, usually males will have more spots than females will, but not necessarily. In most mbuna species, both females and males will get egg spots, so its a very useless way of trying to sex the fish. Venting is really the only sure way, unless its a species where females are a different colour than males when full grown.

Ornatapinnis

11-12-2005, 4:50 PM

The anal fin on males will be more elongated and come to a point where females will be shorter and rounded.

Females are not supposed to have egg spots on thier anal fin but any more with all the in breeding and cross breeding, many time females do.

The reason for the egg spots is for egg fertilization when they spawn. These are mouth brooders where the female carries the eggs and fry in her mouth. When they spawn the female "lays" the eggs, the male fertilizes them and then she picks them up in her mouth. The egg spots on the males anal fin are supposed to be "dummie" eggs and the female will nip at these "dummie" eggs. THe purpose of this is to even more so increase the odds that the eggs in her mouth get fertilized. She's nipping at the fake eggs, he's doing his fertilizing thing, you get the picture....

SinisterKisses

11-12-2005, 10:35 PM

Actually, there's no factual, proven reason as to they they have eggspots, and females naturally do have them, its not because of crossbreeding - I've seen plenty of wildcaught and F1 fish females with them too :) The pointed fin thing isn't a definite, sure way of sexing a fish, either :)

Mourinho18

11-12-2005, 10:39 PM

Actually, there's no factual, proven reason as to they they have eggspots, and females naturally do have them, its not because of crossbreeding -

each and everyone of my mbuna's has eggspots. Some of my females which i can tell apart now because ive had a few hold for me, have several eggspots. I used to think that eggspots would determine the sex, but it really is a misconception that most people have.

SinisterKisses

11-12-2005, 11:39 PM

This is exactly what I'm saying :)

Mourinho18

11-12-2005, 11:41 PM

This is exactly what I'm saying :)

I know, but I was just reinforcing what you said :D :thumbsup:

SinisterKisses

11-13-2005, 1:41 AM

Lol I appreciate the reinforcement ;)

Scotty

11-14-2005, 11:05 AM

Hi all, I would advise that you feed your mbuna's spirulina as Malawi bloat will kill your fish. The main cause being too much protein based food. Yes they do love it but given some time you will only experience disaster.
The two fish with the yellow are Ps crabo with the front one possibly a female. Colour stays more yellow whist the males become very dark.
You ph is great and I would suggest you do 20% water changes weekly as they do much better when the water quality is good. I have around 60 cichlids, mainly mbuna and have successfully breed three new fish that have come directly from the lake. If you are able to cultivate your own algae that would be even better. Small tank with a water flow and then allow some shade cloth to hang into this. They absolutely love this and this is extremely healthy. Cheers from South Africa.

Ornatapinnis

11-14-2005, 11:27 AM

Hey Scotty, welcome aboard!!! Good imput too, I kind-of thought it was a crabo too, couldn't say for sure though.

About the egg spot thing, I agree that both male and females have them and it's not a reliable way to sex them. About 15 to 20 years ago when I first got into african cichlids, the first fish I got into were mostly pseudotropheus. Back then the quality of the fish was much better than it is now. The female zebras and trophops I first had did not have egg spots on the anal fin. Neither did the johani. THese really stick out in my mind because I was really interested in spawning them and used that as one way to sex them. Was it 100% acurate? probibly not but I don't remember having any females with them. Now day it's a different story completly. Geez..The first red zebras I got were bright orange females and blue males. I could not believe that they were the same specie but when they spawned and grew them out I ended up with orange females and blue males. That was cool. I couldn't belive the johani either with yellow/orange females and black & blue males.

I do believe that on adults that the elongated / more pointed anal fin is a reliable way to identify males. Females do not develope this but I have seen fish that I know were males that did not have this trait. I miss the good old days, those fish were so much cooler than the waterd down junk offered now. Heck, you can buy africans at freeken wall mart now, that's sad......

SinisterKisses

11-14-2005, 11:59 AM

That doesn't mean all africans today are 'watered down junk', thanks. Most of mine have been ordered online from a very good breeder, and I'm perfectly happy with them.

Ornatapinnis

11-14-2005, 12:37 PM

Oh yeah, I know. I'm saying by and large these fish are not as nice as they used to be. Mass production and non selective spawning has ruined many of them.

I agree that nice ones are available. THe company I buy alot from do wilds and f-1's. A little more expensive but worth it. THe sad thing is lots of people don't know the differance and are like "I can buy one of those for 1/2 that at (insert your favorite chain store) ". WHat ever...

I think that you hit the nail on the head too getting fish from specialty suppliers. I bet you got some really cool fish, and I also bet you didn't get them at pet-co or what ever.

Scotty

11-14-2005, 2:10 PM

Hi all, The only true way to sex your fish is to vent them. Had an experience with some blue cobalts and what we thought were possible females turned out to be males. Need the fish to be 3+cm long before you can successfully vent them. Males have two small hole whereas the female will have one large and one small. Need good lighting to do this.

SinisterKisses

11-14-2005, 3:24 PM

I've already covered the whole 'venting is the only sure way' thing ;)

Most of my africans have come from online breeders, but I do actually have one very gorgeous albino greshakei that came from Petsmart. And a gorgeous kenyi from Walmart - believe it or not, but where I live, Walmart is the only place (out of 6 stores now, chain and local) that carry nice looking Kenyi.

Scotty

11-15-2005, 9:14 AM

I will look to see if I have a shot of my greshakei and post it for you to look at. Venting, according to my mate Neil, big Malawi importer here in SA, is the only safe way to sex a fish. When you refer to kenyi are you refering to Ps lombardoi? Had a male and female but when my tank cracked lost them together with many more. Female had just started to carry together with two others. Tradgedy!
:naughty: :cry: :D

gomezladdams

11-15-2005, 9:49 AM

I put the abalone shell in and the larger male immediatly claimed it. if hes not in it hes right over it.If it stops raining today by the time I finish my waterchanges Im going to look for some more rocks for the tank in my yard.My property is loaded with slate so I should be able to find some good cave material.

Ive seen people recommend "slight overcrowding"with these guys to cut down on aggression.How many should I have in that 55gal tank?

SinisterKisses

11-15-2005, 11:45 AM

Yes, I'm referring to Lombardoi.

As for overstocking - how many fish you can comfortably put into a 55gal tank, depends on two things - what kind of and how much filtration you have on the tank, and exactly what species you're talking about :)

Beardo

11-15-2005, 3:28 PM

I too was under the impression that most African Cichlids were herbivorous. I used to work at a pet store that specialized in tropical fish (I know, I know...pet stores aren't usually very popular amongst exotic hobbyists, but this one was pretty decent) and we fed the Africans spirulina flakes and zuchini slices. They greatly enjoy the zuchini from what I saw.

Zorro

11-15-2005, 4:40 PM

Nice fish

gomezladdams

11-21-2005, 9:49 PM

20% waterchange weekly is the minimum I do.And like I said been feeding spirulena flakes mainly and they love it.Tossed them some finely grated carrot and they loved that too.got a bunch of slate and made some caves,They really like the rockwork and have settled down to some serious digging.My kids think its hilarious when they spit gravel at each other.

gomezladdams

11-24-2005, 12:20 AM

Just got another,he is alot smaller than the other ones,but the way he was terrorizing his tankmates at the store, I figured he had a chance in my tank.He lloks just like the other blue onewith a gold halo arond the fin edges.Sorry about the blurry pic,I took it whenver I post good pics its cause my wife took them.

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/gallery/watermark.php?file=2/new_blue.JPG

gomezladdams

12-06-2005, 11:12 AM

Got a new johanni to add to the mix, he got a pretty bad welcome,Heater in that tank got unplugged somehow :swear: and temp dropped to 62f!!
hes about 1 1/2 inch and not afraid to mix it up with the 6" pseudotropheus,tough little guy. :naughty:

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/gallery/watermark.php?file=2/johanni.JPG

downset21

12-06-2005, 4:59 PM

I kept african cichlids for about 4 years, and they reproduced like crazy. I gave them a varied diet, which is why I think I had so much success. They got chopped up shrimp, lettuce, zuchinni, flake foods, and once every few months, feeders...(which I know isn't neccessary, but it was for entertainment value). I ended up keeping them by accident. I put 4 pseudotropheus in my S.A. cichlid tank with the plan of buying them their own tank in a couple days when I had the money. I had kept the African ciclids at school and I needed to bring them home. AFter a couple days, they took the tank over and I ended up losing a nicaraguense, a green terror, and a jack dempsey. only the green terror was mature. They attacked like wolves. The next four years, I converted it into an African cichlid tank with the right P.H. and rocks and everything. They basically forced their way into my 125 gallon.

Scotty

12-09-2005, 5:20 PM

:thumbsup: :woot: :clap :naughty: :headbang2

Scotty

12-09-2005, 5:24 PM

Lost my initial reply! Looks like a Metriaclima greshakei. Look a doing regular 20% water changes, especially once you add more fish. Malawi's mess quite a bit and like clean water. If you can look at buying wild caught's or f1's. They will cost more but their colour is worth the added monies spent. ENJOY! :naughty: :woot: :clap :headbang2 :thumbsup: :cheers: :mwave:

gomezladdams

01-02-2006, 12:38 AM

Ash

01-02-2006, 2:10 AM

Tried to add this guy to the tank and thy beat the&%$# out of him took him out after he wouldnt come out to eat for 2 days.

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/gallery/watermark.php?file=2/red_zebra_2.JPG

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/gallery/watermark.php?file=2/red_zebra.JPG

Plan on putting him back in again unless anyone thinks this species of african isnt tough enough to live with the others?
Its due to a balance/equalibrium issue prob. Most African tanks have that, You put so many fish in your tank and your fish will find a balance or equilabrium and then when you add a new fish they attack and beat up eachother or the new guy untill they have equalibrium again and once you add more fish in after they have got that, they will attack it, add more new fish with your new fish and then you might be able to re balance this or you may lose a fish. I experience this often and test it out to find a good number that each of my fish is happy with and all have good spots for hiding and such. I think I put that in the right words...

Scotty

01-02-2006, 2:36 PM

When you add fish to an established Mbuna tank look to adding a minimum of 3-4 fish. One will be attacked by the rest, and if left, killed. You can also look to re-arrange the stone work which will have them all scampering for new territory.
I have just added 6 fish per tank and it was settled within a day. :naughty: :woot: :headbang2 :clap :thumbsup: :mwave: