Convicts or hybrids
- Thread starter PwNz I R COLE
- Start date
So just because they are in the same genus, they are the same fish? If the different "convict-type" cichlids have diverged enough to become geographically distinct populations and if they are found to be morphologically different enough to be classified as different species then any interbreeding would technically produce a hybrid. I wonder who is the one lacking common sense here... Are all Parachromis species the same in your book? Going by your logic, are Herichthys carpinte and Herichthys cyanoguttatus, closely related as they are, the same species?
It is with such ridiculously ignorant attitudes that hybrids are produced and propagated in the hobby, and with the fact that pretty much all central American species interbreed so readily it becomes more and more difficult to obtain pure stock, which I find desperately sad.
Hey hey don't diss the hybrids! 
( They still have feelings and all that! (
but seriously, you talk as if hybrids in and of itself is a problem. Did you know genetics-wise, a hybrid is any offspring of two genetically different individuals? Unless your parents are twins, you yourself is a hybrid. Taxonomically speaking, hybrids can be at the sub-species level (i.e. dogs), so stuff like crosses between different Green Texas localities can count as hybrids actually.
But regardless there's nothing wrong with hybrids inherently. Issues that arise with hybrids are at large the same issues that plague the fish keepin industry as a whole, regardless of the fish in question. The only real issue is sterility, but that's not a stop-all issue.
Also we humans depend on hybrids to a great extent to survive. Many crops are hybrids of different species, and we eat them all the time. Without these hybrids there won't be (nearly as many) resilient, high production, tasty crops for us to eat.)
( They still have feelings and all that! (but seriously, you talk as if hybrids in and of itself is a problem. Did you know genetics-wise, a hybrid is any offspring of two genetically different individuals? Unless your parents are twins, you yourself is a hybrid.
Taxonomically speaking, hybrids can be at the sub-species level (i.e. dogs), so stuff like crosses between different Green Texas localities can count as hybrids actually. But regardless there's nothing wrong with hybrids inherently. Issues that arise with hybrids are at large the same issues that plague the fish keepin industry as a whole, regardless of the fish in question. The only real issue is sterility, but that's not a stop-all issue.
Also we humans depend on hybrids to a great extent to survive. Many crops are hybrids of different species, and we eat them all the time. Without these hybrids there won't be (nearly as many) resilient, high production, tasty crops for us to eat.
)Convict use to refer to one species but now refers to 4 species (and possibily one undescribed, as well). Convict is a common name. What is common aquarium strain in the hobby, and has always been refferred to as a convict, could just as easily be Amititlania siquia (Cryptoheros siquia), or a mix of 2-4 of these species. No reason to assume it is C. nigrofasciatus.....and no way of determining with out knowing where they were originally collected!
HRP is generally thought to be a potentially undescribed species. Cryptoheros sp. "Hondurean red point" . It is called by some, A. cf. siquia because it falls with in the geographic range of C. siquia. cf. means confer in latin; it means compare. It is similar but may not be the same. To aquarists, there is no doubt that HRP is significantly different (size, aggression, coloration, ect.). Whether it is just a regional variant or an undescribed species, it is significantly different......and IMO shouldn't be crossed and mixed up with other convict types.
Sigh, more idiocy. I won't even bother.Hey hey don't diss the hybrids!
but seriously, you talk as if hybrids in and of itself is a problem. Did you know genetics-wise, a hybrid is any offspring of two genetically different individuals? Unless your parents are twins, you yourself is a hybrid.
But regardless there's nothing wrong with hybrids inherently. Issues that arise with hybrids are at large the same issues that plague the fish keepin industry as a whole, regardless of the fish in question. The only real issue is sterility, but that's not a stop-all issue.
Also we humans depend on hybrids to a great extent to survive. Many crops are hybrids of different species, and we eat them all the time. Without these hybrids there won't be (nearly as many) resilient, high production, tasty crops for us to eat.
this issue is just like distinguishing pygocentrus nattteri from ternetzi............nice debate but i have been here before.........
The blue (undescribed) HRP is from Rio Danli (Honduras).
Just about every stream in Central America has a "convict" (and many also have a cutteri / spilurum-type fish). They're all different. Whether they're all different enough to warrant being called different species is up to scientists to debate.
But aquarists, at least those interested in maintaining pure lines, should keep "convicts" from different places separate to ensure that they don't interbreed.
I have no faith that convicts from an LFS, Petsmart, etc. or anywhere that doen't have a (credible) provenance to a wild population are "pure" to a particular location. Not to say that they aren't amazing fish that are worth keeping (I have a wonderful pair of LFS pink convicts).
I also keep and breed wild-type "cons" from:
- Rio Choluteca
- Rio Claro
- Rio Danli
- Rio Monga
- Rio Robolo / Boca del Toro
- Lago Nicaragua
- Rio Cabayo
- Lago Coatepeque
- Grenada, Nicaragua
- Leucistic HRPs (which I think are a sport from Rio Danli fish)
...all in different tanks... all with provenance to wild fish!
Matt
Just about every stream in Central America has a "convict" (and many also have a cutteri / spilurum-type fish). They're all different. Whether they're all different enough to warrant being called different species is up to scientists to debate.
But aquarists, at least those interested in maintaining pure lines, should keep "convicts" from different places separate to ensure that they don't interbreed.
I have no faith that convicts from an LFS, Petsmart, etc. or anywhere that doen't have a (credible) provenance to a wild population are "pure" to a particular location. Not to say that they aren't amazing fish that are worth keeping (I have a wonderful pair of LFS pink convicts).
I also keep and breed wild-type "cons" from:
- Rio Choluteca
- Rio Claro
- Rio Danli
- Rio Monga
- Rio Robolo / Boca del Toro
- Lago Nicaragua
- Rio Cabayo
- Lago Coatepeque
- Grenada, Nicaragua
- Leucistic HRPs (which I think are a sport from Rio Danli fish)
...all in different tanks... all with provenance to wild fish!
Matt
