Naso Tang VS Alge

[RD.]

Nori, or live algae of some sort should be incorporated into the daily diet of all tangs.

The creator of NLS has kept various tangs in captivity for 12+ years, feeding only his food. For the most part seaweed is a very nutrient deficient food. The University of Florida has done studies that clearly demonstrated just how deficient it can be.

A study that was performed in 2001 by Dr. Ruth Francis-Floyd, Chris Tilghman, and RuthEllen Klinger from the University of Florida, showed just how important various nutrient levels can be to certain species of fish kept in captivity. This particular study involved captive nutritional management of herbivorous reef fish using Surgeonfish as test subjects and were divided into 3 groups. The first Group was fed washed seaweed (ulva spp.). The second group was fed a commercially prepared pellet food, and the third group was fed a commercial flake food that was supposedly designed specifically for herbivores.

At the end of the study, the ulva and flake fed groups suffered high mortality rates, (61%, and 39%), with the surviving fish showing clinical signs of malnourishment. Some had become emaciated to paper-thin condition. The second group (fed pellets) performed the best, all fish gained steady weight, no deaths, and no apparent signs of any disease. The information from this study was made available during a lecture in 2001 at the Marine Ornamentals International Conference, held in Lake Buena Vista, Florida, and has also been published in "Marine Ornamental Species - Collection, Culture, and Conservation by James C. Cato, and Christopher L. Brown.

The seaweed diet - 39% of the test group exhibited extreme wasting, with 61% dieing before the end of the study.

The flake diet - Most fish gained weight, yet 27% came down with Hole in the Head/Head & Lateral Line Erosion Syndrome, 16% exhibited exopthalmia, corneal opacity, and apparent blindness, and 39% died before the end of the study.

The pellet diet - On average all of the pellet eating fish steadily gained weight, with no noticeable signs of disease, and no deaths.

Premium pellets contain enough aquatic plant matter (algae meal, sprirulina, etc) to keep a tang healthy & thriving long term, and at the same time they also contain all of the essential amino acids, lipids, and vitamins & trace minerals. It's all about balance.

 

[nonstophoops]

The creator of NLS has kept various tangs in captivity for 12+ years, feeding only his food. For the most part seaweed is a very nutrient deficient food. The University of Florida has done studies that clearly demonstrated just how deficient it can be.

A study that was performed in 2001 by Dr. Ruth Francis-Floyd, Chris Tilghman, and RuthEllen Klinger from the University of Florida, showed just how important various nutrient levels can be to certain species of fish kept in captivity. This particular study involved captive nutritional management of herbivorous reef fish using Surgeonfish as test subjects and were divided into 3 groups. The first Group was fed washed seaweed (ulva spp.). The second group was fed a commercially prepared pellet food, and the third group was fed a commercial flake food that was supposedly designed specifically for herbivores.

At the end of the study, the ulva and flake fed groups suffered high mortality rates, (61%, and 39%), with the surviving fish showing clinical signs of malnourishment. Some had become emaciated to paper-thin condition. The second group (fed pellets) performed the best, all fish gained steady weight, no deaths, and no apparent signs of any disease. The information from this study was made available during a lecture in 2001 at the Marine Ornamentals International Conference, held in Lake Buena Vista, Florida, and has also been published in "Marine Ornamental Species - Collection, Culture, and Conservation by James C. Cato, and Christopher L. Brown.

The seaweed diet - 39% of the test group exhibited extreme wasting, with 61% dieing before the end of the study.

The flake diet - Most fish gained weight, yet 27% came down with Hole in the Head/Head & Lateral Line Erosion Syndrome, 16% exhibited exopthalmia, corneal opacity, and apparent blindness, and 39% died before the end of the study.

The pellet diet - On average all of the pellet eating fish steadily gained weight, with no noticeable signs of disease, and no deaths.

Premium pellets contain enough aquatic plant matter (algae meal, sprirulina, etc) to keep a tang healthy & thriving long term, and at the same time they also contain all of the essential amino acids, lipids, and vitamins & trace minerals. It's all about balance.

The last sentence here is key. "It's all about balance."

Feeding solely one food is not balance, no matter how good it may be. It will be lacking in some areas no matter what you buy. This is why we feed(Fleshy included) an assortment of foods that are both vegetable and meat based. Mysis, algae sheets, pellets, flakes, seafood mixture, etc. all soaked in vitamins provide the best artificial diet(what we are offering since we can't duplicate the ocean.)

This study shows that high quality pellets should be part of a high quality diet and that we should not rely solely on any one food(or 2 or 3 for that matter) to keep our fish healthy. I would never recommend feeding only pellets to fish.

The algae is natural food for tangs and that behavior of tearing off food and grazing throughout the day helps keep them healthy(and less agressive) besides the nutritional benefit.

 

[RD.]

Feeding solely one food is not balance, no matter how good it may be. It will be lacking in some areas no matter what you buy.

Really? And what exactly will it be lacking in?

Name a single nutrient that is found in seaweed or nori that can't be found in a premium well balanced, highly digestible nutrient rich pellet food?

Trust me, none exist.

As previously stated the creator of NLS has kept many Tangs (and far more delicate species than Tangs) in captivity for going on 13 yrs, all super healthy. How many here could say the same?

I have no issue with those that want to witness what they may feel is a more natural feeding behaviour, but there is no argument that a quality pellet food can keep SW fish thriving long term in captivity. I know a number of hobbyists who feed pellets exclusively, and have had the same results as what you see in the photos above.

 

[nonstophoops]

Really? And what exactly will it be lacking in?

Name a single nutrient that is found in seaweed or nori that can't be found in a premium well balanced, highly digestible nutrient rich pellet food?

Trust me, none exist.

As previously stated the creator of NLS has kept many Tangs (and far more delicate species than Tangs) in captivity for going on 13 yrs, all super healthy. How many here could say the same?

I have no issue with those that want to witness what they may feel is a more natural feeding behaviour, but there is no argument that a quality pellet food can keep SW fish thriving long term in captivity. I know a number of hobbyists who feed pellets exclusively, and have had the same results as what you see in the photos above.

Cute pictures.

I guarantee that tank isn't feeding only pellets, but cool none the same. Does nothing to prove your point besides linking something unrelated to your claims. I could take a picture of the ocean and say that pellets kill everything. Doesn't tell us anything.

Also, you are naming one guy(the creator of the food!) that has had success keeping tangs that long. Have you kept tangs for 13 years on these pellets? I doubt it. He obviously will have everything else about his tanks perfect as well, so the pellets are only part of the story.

You are also challenging me to find something not in pellets. There are things that we can't even quantify in foods that are beneficial for our fish. I find it astonishing that you think NLS is perfect. How could we duplicate something that is better than the world the fish actually live in? It isn't happening.

I am not denying that NLS is a great food. I think that everyone should include it in their fishes diet. It is a great product and really does help keep fish healthy.

 

[RD.]

I guarantee that tank isn't feeding only pellets

That's funny, because I guarantee that every last marine fish at his facility is eating pellets exclusively. Have you been to Pablo Tepoot's home, that was just one of many of his marine tanks, all fed on pellets. I can assure you that many people in the industry can attest to that fact.

But please don't take my word for it, go over to wetwebmedia and ask Bob Fenner, or ask Charles Delbeek M.Sc., senior biologist at the Steinhart Aquarium in San Francisco, I believe that he was there just a few weekends ago. Ask them how long Pablo has kept Moorish Idol alive & thriving in captivity, or Achilles Tang, or how many V. lionfish that he has eating floating pellets from the surface of the tank.

If you're going to call BS on someone, you might want to make sure that you can back your comments up. Pablo has 40+ yrs experience with marine fish, and has been feeding pellets exclusively for the past 20 yrs.

You are also challenging me to find something not in pellets.

Not exactly, I asked you to name a single nutrient that is found in seaweed or nori that can't be found in a premium well balanced, highly digestible nutrient rich pellet food? Which amino acid, fatty acid, carb, vitamin or trace mineral? There must be something that someone knows about, otherwise your previous comment would be based strictly on your personal opinion, not science, and not experience. Correct?

So we are now to believe that nori contains nutrients that are unknown to mankind, and for this reason we should feed it to fish?

I find it astonishing that you think NLS is perfect.

Perfect? Where did I state that?

I believe what I said was that premium pellets contain enough aquatic plant matter (algae meal, sprirulina, etc) to keep a tang healthy & thriving long term, and at the same time they also contain all of the essential amino acids, lipids, and vitamins & trace minerals.

Also, NLS is not 1 food, it's a formula that is derived from many foods, as in a wide variety of very high quality raw ingredients. Or do we need to feed each & every foodstuff one at a time to a fish in order to achieve optimum results?

See what I'm getting at?

 

[nonstophoops]

That's funny, because I guarantee that every last marine fish at his facility is eating pellets exclusively. Have you been to Pablo Tepoot's home, that was just one of many of his marine tanks, all fed on pellets. I can assure you that many people in the industry can attest to that fact.

But please don't take my word for it, go over to wetwebmedia and ask Bob Fenner, or ask Charles Delbeek M.Sc., senior biologist at the Steinhart Aquarium in San Francisco, I believe that he was there just a few weekends ago. Ask them how long Pablo has kept Moorish Idol alive & thriving in captivity, or Achilles Tang, or how many V. lionfish that he has eating floating pellets from the surface of the tank.

If you're going to call BS on someone, you might want to make sure that you can back your comments up. Pablo has 40+ yrs experience with marine fish, and has been feeding pellets exclusively for the past 20 yrs.




Not exactly, I asked you to name a single nutrient that is found in seaweed or nori that can't be found in a premium well balanced, highly digestible nutrient rich pellet food? Which amino acid, fatty acid, carb, vitamin or trace mineral? There must be something that someone knows about, otherwise your previous comment would be based strictly on your personal opinion, not science, and not experience. Correct?

So we are now to believe that nori contains nutrients that are unknown to mankind, and for this reason we should feed it to fish?



Perfect? Where did I state that?

I believe what I said was that premium pellets contain enough aquatic plant matter (algae meal, sprirulina, etc) to keep a tang healthy & thriving long term, and at the same time they also contain all of the essential amino acids, lipids, and vitamins & trace minerals.

Also, NLS is not 1 food, it's a formula that is derived from many foods, as in a wide variety of very high quality raw ingredients. Or do we need to feed each & every foodstuff one at a time to a fish in order to achieve optimum results?

See what I'm getting at?

I will be the first to admit that I don't buy different foods and set up a lab to test each ingredient in the food. I can't break it down to percentages or tell you exactly what is in it.

I rely on many many many people who have a lot more experience in the industry/hobby than both of us combined. I will gladly email Bob Fenner over at wetwebmedia, he does not and will not tell people to only feed one food. In fact, the entire crew encourage all hobbyists to feed a varied diet and include plenty of vegetable matter. He does firmly believe that NLS is a good product(best pellet out there), but goes out of his way to make it a point not to feed ANYTHING exclusively.

For Charles Delbeek, I don't know much about him or his principles in the matter. I will take your word for it.

Again he is just one of many public aquarium guys and many people have differing opinions. I just highly doubt that very many of them feed their fish exclusively on pellets.

The other major problem with the examples you are presenting are that those people ARE very experienced and run immaculate tanks. The average hobbyist, or even very experienced hobbyists do not have systems or resources comparable to that of peoples living rooms. With everything else perfect in the tank you may get away with feeding your fish just NLS and they will be healthy. Does that mean it is ideal? Not necessarily. Take tanks that don't have amazing filtration and water that contains nitrates and other nutrients and the chance of fish living very long drops dramatically.

If NLS is not perfect, then there leaves room for improvement. Meaning other foods can fill in where the NLS is lacking. Just like I said, NLS is quality food, but not the only food.

 

[RD.]

Ask Bob if he considers NLS to be a nutritionally complete food, and if he has seen Pablo's marine fish in person, and Pablo's feeding regime.
He should, considering what Bob wrote here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/foodsppt1.htm

Make sure to note the photo at the top of the last page. (4) That's Pablo feeding the tank that I just linked to above, with pellets. Then make note at the bottom of the page where Bob states: Spectrum pelleted foods, best period. And also refers to it as "completely nutritious".

Bob doesn't typically tell people to feed NLS exclusively, but deep down he certainly knows that it can be done, he's seen the results first hand & won't deny it.

BTW - Bob respects my experience & knowledge on this subject enough to have asked me in the past to join his team of advisors, to which I declined due to time constraints & other factors. In the nutrition portion of his website, no one has anything on me. Over the years I've swapped spit with the best of them, including manufacturers, company reps, marine biologists, zoologists, DVM's, research scientists that specialize in this field, and with enough letters after their name to sink a ship.

Consider this from my perspective, you are condemning a method of feeding that you have never personally tried, while over the past decade I have seen the results of this method first hand, many times over, in both freshwater & marine set ups. Just regular hobbyists, nothing overly special about any of their set ups.

Does this mean that all marine fish will eat a pellet food, absolutely not! As noted previously, I never referred to NLS as perfect in all regards. This is why most public aquarium personal don't feed just pellets, they simply don't have the time or room to attempt to train every last fish before it gets placed into their display tanks. They must feed other foods, or fish die.


But those that will eat NLS seem to thrive long term, in some of the best physical condition that I have ever personally seen. (not just healthy, as you put it) Bob has dove in most of the major reefs in the world, and in his words Pablo's fish look as good or better that any fish that he has ever seen in the wild. Honestly I'm not sure what more a person can ask for, than that?

 

[FLESHY]

NLS, is the best food on the market. You will find me saying this over, and over again.

Fish love it, have great color, and are never sick. I dont feed anything else to a lot of my fish. But I always supplement with other things.

The creator of NLS has kept various tangs in captivity for 12+ years, feeding only his food. For the most part seaweed is a very nutrient deficient food. The University of Florida has done studies that clearly demonstrated just how deficient it can be.

Notice that I also feed NLS, and high quality seaweeds among other foods. My tangs health is second to none. And I mean that.

I think that if you dont give tangs something to constantly graze on, that that will in itself be detrimental to the fish.

I dont think we disagree with you so much as you think.

 

[RD.]

I think that if you dont give tangs something to constantly graze on, that that will in itself be detrimental to the fish.

I think we will have to agree to disagree, but it's all good.
I know that you gents are doing what you feel is the best for the fish,
which at the end of the day is the most important thing of all.

 

[nonstophoops]

Ask Bob if he considers NLS to be a nutritionally complete food, and if he has seen Pablo's marine fish in person, and Pablo's feeding regime.
He should, considering what Bob wrote here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/foodsppt1.htm

Make sure to note the photo at the top of the last page. (4) That's Pablo feeding the tank that I just linked to above, with pellets. Then make note at the bottom of the page where Bob states: Spectrum pelleted foods, best period. And also refers to it as "completely nutritious".

Bob doesn't typically tell people to feed NLS exclusively, but deep down he certainly knows that it can be done, he's seen the results first hand & won't deny it.

BTW - Bob respects my experience & knowledge on this subject enough to have asked me in the past to join his team of advisors, to which I declined due to time constraints & other factors. In the nutrition portion of his website, no one has anything on me. Over the years I've swapped spit with the best of them, including manufacturers, company reps, marine biologists, zoologists, DVM's, research scientists that specialize in this field, and with enough letters after their name to sink a ship.

Consider this from my perspective, you are condemning a method of feeding that you have never personally tried, while over the past decade I have seen the results of this method first hand, many times over, in both freshwater & marine set ups. Just regular hobbyists, nothing overly special about any of their set ups.

Does this mean that all marine fish will eat a pellet food, absolutely not! As noted previously, I never referred to NLS as perfect in all regards. This is why most public aquarium personal don't feed just pellets, they simply don't have the time or room to attempt to train every last fish before it gets placed into their display tanks. They must feed other foods, or fish die.


But those that will eat NLS seem to thrive long term, in some of the best physical condition that I have ever personally seen. (not just healthy, as you put it) Bob has dove in most of the major reefs in the world, and in his words Pablo's fish look as good or better that any fish that he has ever seen in the wild. Honestly I'm not sure what more a person can ask for, than that?

I read the link. He does state in there that "a mix" is not necessary. Interesting for me to see because I know for a fact he has stated that a mixture is essential. Times change, as do opinions, and I know a lot of his stuff has been written over time.

I want to make it clear that I have continued to say that everyone should use these pellets, though I still believe not exclusively.

I see the picture of him feeding the tank. I don't think you are lying in the information you are giving. I firmly believe you. I also respect your informed opinion on the matter and am glad to have your experienced opinion on the site. It is helpful to all of us, including myself.

I haven't said that feeding exclusively can't be done. I believe it can be done too, I just would not recommend it. Just like Bob Fenner does basically.

I see your perspective and I have not condemned it. However, like I have said, I would not recommend it. Most of the people using this site do not have a lot of experience and I was trying to get away from telling them that this magic food (NLS) will make their fish live forever.

I will add as well that I think vitamin soaks in Selcon are very beneficial no matter what you are feeding your livestock, including NLS.

I have not personally seen fish thriving on only NLS, but I would love the opportunity. Maybe it would change my tune. For the time being I will continue to feed an assortment of food including NLS.

I still believe that there is a lot more to Pablo's fish being as healthy and beautiful as fish in the ocean than the food. Either way, it is amazingly impressive what Pablo is doing. What size is that tank? Is there any more accessible information on Pablo's tanks and methods?