Do you consider goldfish coldwater only fish?

Goldfish temperature?

  • Below 20C/68F

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Below 25C/77F

    Votes: 3 27.3%
  • Below 30C/86F

    Votes: 3 27.3%
  • Doesn't Matter

    Votes: 5 45.5%

  • Total voters
    11

RD.

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Dr. Erik Johnson is a world renowned veterinarian with a clinical specialty in fish medicine, and speaks and conducts seminars throughout the USA. He is the author of Koi Health & Disease, and Fancy Goldfish - A complete Guide to Care and Collecting.


Here's what he has to say on the subject of goldfish, and temperature......


"The temperature at which we should house our goldfish collections is the subject of debate. While it's true that goldfish of most varieties are extremely adaptable to a wide range of temperatures, there is considerable evidence that goldfish do best in water in the mid to high seventies.

Different varieties of goldfish also demonstrate different degrees of adaptability to temperature. The hardiest varieties, including Comets, Shubunkins, and Wakins, will survive winter in North America unless the pond freezes solid. The more highly selected varieties such as Orandas, Ryukins, and Ranchus may survive a temperate winter in North America when left outside, but in my experience they do this with less and less success as they mature.

Goldfish will flourish in water occasionally as warm as 102 degrees if it is properly aerated. I have customarily kept goldfish of all varieties in water as warm as 90F during the summer, and I maintain that warmer water is actually better for goldfish. My fish have shown superior growth and appetite, and the biological filter has performed best at temperatures in the mid to high seventies.

My point is not that the majority of your fancy goldfish will fall ill or die if left outdoors, but that there will be a higher incident of illness among these fish than if they were maintained at balmy temperatures year round.

Hobbyists who keep their fish outdoors with water temperatures near the freezing point may contest this, but, based on my clinical experience, I disagree."
 

Aquanero

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What always seems left out is the difference between survive & thrive. While there is no doubt these fish can survive extremes temporarily, they will thrive in the middle range of these thresholds. I also maintain the higher end of optimum and then slightly above will as stated increase, appetite, growth, metabolism and subsequently a shortened lifespan. So while they may appear to thrive, are they? The live fast die young school of thought.
 

RD.

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I don't think that's been left out at all. Who here is qualified to determine under what conditions each species of goldfish is thriving, or just surviving?

The person who I previously quoted has spent his entire adult life keeping, researching, & treating goldfish in his home, lab, and clinic. If in his expert opinion he has determined through years of practice that in general goldfish (particularly certain round bodied fancy species) overall do better in more tropical temps of mid to high 70's, who am I to argue?
 

Aquanero

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I'm only asking if this guy every compared longevity based on temperature? If a fish kept at 68 ate less, grew slower and lived longer than the fish that ate more, grew faster and died younger kept at 78 degrees which is better? So while I'm not a goldfish expert, in my years in the hobby I would choose the former over the latter. So, I guess I might, based on further research disagree with the good doctor. However I could be wrong.
 

RD.

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It appears that you have completely misread what was posted in quotations. Such as ....

My point is not that the majority of your fancy goldfish will fall ill or die if left outdoors, but that there will be a higher incident of illness among these fish than if they were maintained at balmy temperatures year round.
He's referring to "cold water" outdoor winter temps, vs indoor "tropical" temps, typically to the mid to high seventies. He's also referring to specific fancy strains, as was I in my original comment. In regards to longevity, a temperature difference between high 60's, and mid 70's, or even high 70's isn't going to change much if anything to the lifespan of a goldfish.
 

RD.

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Plenty of warm water ponds world-wide contain very colorful koi. Beyond diet & genetics, sunshine plays the largest role in the color of a goldfish.
 

fishdat

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A common mistake is to lump ALL species of goldfish into the same category. Most of the fancy species show their best growth, and color, in tropical temps. Many of the expert champion breeders raise the fancy breeds such as Ranchu, Lionhead, Oranda, etc at approx 78-80F. (at least for the first year)

Most goldfish will tolerate wide ranges in temperature, but any changes, either up or down, should be gradual.
I'm talking about wakin, jikin, commons, comets, shubunkins, and other similar varieties.

I don't consider them a coldwater-only fish, but I do consider them a fish that does best in a species-specific tank, and generally when people keep them in tropical setups, it's because they want to keep goldfish along with tropical species.

The sheer amount of waste that large cyprinids produce, as a heavy-bodied fish that spends most of its time grazing, makes them unsuitable for community tanks, IMO... I know carp, for instance, remind me of big aquatic cows. They just eat and poop and churn up the bottom.
Definitely true, not a good fish for a normal community tank. That said, there are some really attractive fish that are as boisterous and make for very nice tank mates. Filament barbs and bala sharks are a good example of a fish that can thrive in a well filtered goldfish inclusive community, if the goldfish are within a similar size range.

If were going to get specific about it the common goldfish Carassius auratus is classified as a "cold water fish". Which can not tolerate temps over 80 degrees for extended periods of time, but are comfortable in temps between 50 to 72 degrees. Making them perfect for ambient household temperatures, unheated tanks and outdoor ponds that don't freeze solid during the winter. Even other fancy strains that can't tolerate wintering over out doors would still be classed as a cold water fish, none would be considered tropical in the broad sense of the definition.
The common goldfish's native habitat includes tropical parts of Asia and their invasive habitat cover basically all of the tropics around the world and parts of Africa. The temperatures there exceed 80F and goldfish thrive. I'm not sure what I'd classify them as, since a fair amount of barbs are subtropical but kept in tropical conditions. I think temperate works well since it implies temperature swings in both directions.

Dr. Erik Johnson is a world renowned veterinarian with a clinical specialty in fish medicine, and speaks and conducts seminars throughout the USA. He is the author of Koi Health & Disease, and Fancy Goldfish - A complete Guide to Care and Collecting.


Here's what he has to say on the subject of goldfish, and temperature......


"The temperature at which we should house our goldfish collections is the subject of debate. While it's true that goldfish of most varieties are extremely adaptable to a wide range of temperatures, there is considerable evidence that goldfish do best in water in the mid to high seventies."
Cut down the quote as to not make this post any larger than it already is. I have read parts of his book and definitely agree with his thoughts.


What always seems left out is the difference between survive & thrive. While there is no doubt these fish can survive extremes temporarily, they will thrive in the middle range of these thresholds. I also maintain the higher end of optimum and then slightly above will as stated increase, appetite, growth, metabolism and subsequently a shortened lifespan. So while they may appear to thrive, are they? The live fast die young school of thought.
This is a good point to bring up, it could be worth it to examine the average age of wild caught goldfish from different regions. Perhaps take samples from Canada, the Amazon, Europe, South Africa, and a part of their native temperate range in China? It would be interesting to see the relationship between region and size/age.
 

MN_Rebel

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I don't consider them a coldwater-only fish, but I do consider them a fish that does best in a species-specific tank, and generally when people keep them in tropical setups, it's because they want to keep goldfish along with tropical species.

The sheer amount of waste that large cyprinids produce, as a heavy-bodied fish that spends most of its time grazing, makes them unsuitable for community tanks, IMO... I know carp, for instance, remind me of big aquatic cows. They just eat and poop and churn up the bottom.
Ive kept goldfish in a community tank with no issues. Zebra danios, cloud mountain minnows, red rosy minnows, dojo loaches, bullheads, peaceful subtropical barbs, sunfish and few native species are what I kept with goldfish.
 

RD.

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I'm talking about wakin, jikin, commons, comets, shubunkins, and other similar varieties.
Thanks for the clarification. In which case I would lean towards under 20C/68F, especially if you are referring to fish collected from the wild, or born & raised in those conditions. For specimens removed from those conditions by hundreds of generations, I would still keep them on the cooler side of the equation, just as I would native species, for the exact reasons that Aquanero stated.
 
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