Garage Conversion For Fish House

[kniesh]

Hi, so I'm finally in a position to start work on my Fish House, but I will start by saying that DIY is just NOT my thing. This will complicate things massively, and I'm hoping to use this thread, more of a springboard for ideas from people with much more experience than me, than me showing off the room. However, I obviously will be doing both.

The garage is 20' x 17' double. It has 2 metal front doors and is just a brick building at the minute. It does have a very high ceiling, which I will need to also insulate

A small background is, until last week we lived in a 2 Bedroom terraced while we looked for the perfect home to buy. That perfect home was always going to have a double garage that the wife agreed would be mine for fish. Unfortunately, in the old house I was using the 2nd living room to keep 5 tanks. This has made the move very difficult for a number of reasons.

* I noticed on the day we moved that the Electricity in the garage isn't sufficient. It has its own trip box, with a 15 Amp, and a 5 Amp trip for the lights. At the moment I am already well over this with the 4 tanks I have running, although this hasn't yet tripped, it seems a matter of time. I am not fully conversed in electrical outputs though, and I assume this 15 amp box is literally that, only 15 amp allowed? I have been in contact with an electrician who will be out shortly to tell me my options. I also need him to fit a lot more sockets anyway.

* The garage isn't currently insulated, as I stated, I am awful at DIY, however, my Father, who does live a fair bit away from me, is very good. He is up for 2 weeks from the 24th October and we intend on insulating it then. Until then I am just making sure the temp isn't dropping too much overnight. I seem to have it steady now just from having 2 heaters in each tank. Any suggestions on materials to use would be very welcome here, I'm currently planning a basic Polystyrene insulation, covered by plaster boards then painted with a water resistant paint. For future I plan on heating the air within the room, then adding any heaters internally as needed.

* As the tanks are already in, I will be working around them really. I currently have them all in the middle of the room so I can work the walls around them. This I assume creates more problems? I really wish I could start this from scratch with no fish, but most my fish Ive had for years now so...

Basically, I have 2 upcoming issues that any advice would be very welcome.

1. The insulating of the garage, this will be done in the next few weeks, using Polystyrene boards for insulation, and plaster boards for cover on a 20' x 17' Garage, what kind of cost do you think I am looking at? I'm on a short term budget (having just paid for the house), however as time goes by, I will be able to invest more an more. Also, does this sound ok as a plan?

2. The Electrics, this seems to be a pretty big one, from the research Ive done, upping these limits could cost up to £1500. What kind of ampage should I be looking at getting it to?


I will keep this going here, and add a few photos of the garage as it is now as I go. I know there's a lot to read there, and sorry for all the questions. I am sort of spitballing at the minute, so things will pop up as I'm typing too

Thanks Vinny

 

[skjl47]

Hello; Back in the 1970's a friend made a greenhouse into a fish room. I have no idea how much it cost to run.

I take it that the garage is freestanding and not connected to a house or other building so you will not get any heat from adjacent structures?

My guess is that the metal doors will be the biggest site of heat loss. At least that is how it was with my house. I used two inch thick foam board to insulate my two garage doors. It was a tedious and time consuming job. I used the lightest foam board available and even it added notable weight to the doors. My first suggestion is to make sure the structure of the doors is sound. I had to do some welding and rust repair on my doors. May I also suggest that good rusty metal primer be applied and that the painted surfaces be in good shape before covering with insulation. The rigid foam board left an air gap and I had condensation form on the inside of my doors after I insulated them. My adjustment for that has been to drill a number of 1/4 inch holes in the doors so that the condensation can dry.

Had I to do metal doors again, I would likely use the spray foam insulation on the inside of my metal garage doors. Probably the closed foam type. Cost is a factor with this stuff.

I decided not to use the fiberglass insulation for two reasons. I had used it on a metal garage door before and found it to be heavy. It also would get wet and be heavier still.

The next area of heat loss was the gaps around the doors. That took some doing to get a decent seal. I will not go into that as your doors may be very different from mine.

One last thing to consider. When yo insulate the brick walls keep in mind that there likely will be condensation between the brick and the insulation. This will not be so much a structrual issue as a health issue when mold begins to grow. There are ribbed sheeting that can be applied to masonary walls which provides a stand off gap and allows for control of such moisture as will likely condense. It can get very humid in a fish room. I am not sure what the best way might be to deal with the moisture but as you are starting from scratch, now may be the best time to think about it.

Good luck

 

[Pharaoh]

1. I recommend spending the money on spray-on insulation rather than the foam. Consider the time spent cutting those sheet along with the high cost and just spend the money to have it sprayed. You will get much better results. Doing the sheets was a PIA. I wouldn't personally do it again. I would also put a walk and insulation in front of the garage doors. You will lose the most heat there.

2.If electricity is a concern, then spend more on insulation. Ask Oddball for his thoughts. He did two coats of spray foam and the room pretty much held heat without much work from the furnace.

Of course, you can't really estimate what kind of power you will need until you decide on insulation. But, I heat my fish room int he winter with a 1500W infrared heater and it stays at 83 all year long. I would suggest having 3 - 15A-20A circuits for this room. That should be more than enough. My previous fish room ran on around 1.5 15A circuits and it was about half the size of what you are proposing, maybe a bit smaller.

 

[boldtogether]

£1500 seems like a lot for a service panel up grade, but the alternative may be even more money. Insulation is definitely a priority, but if heaters consuming power is the concern, upgrading the power to the space is still, in my opinion, top priority....and since the walls are open at the moment, now is the time to add outlets and lights....spend the money and consider the investment beyond fish keeping....you are adding value to your home.

 

[kniesh]

Thanks for the replies. At the moment, the plan is to have an electrician out in the next week to discuss options of the electricity board in there. I think I was working out the usage wrong too. I was just going off the fuse in each plug, turns out it's actually the Watt/Voltage, so at the minute I think it's actually ok, but of course it will need upgrading, and I definitely need more sockets as there is only 2. After that, my dad comes up to start the insulation work on 24th, so really need the sockets added before then.


The fishroom itself will have a 12ft x 4ftx x 2ft show tank to house my Polypterus's, Clown Knife, Gar and Datnoids. The rest will just be a few other slightly smaller tanks, just for breeding a few species, for running costs, and maybe a couple of 100-150gallon tanks of choice. I've not fully decided what to put in them yet but I already have a pair of Gold Saums I want to breed an a few other smaller fish. I wont be having rows an rows of tanks you usually see in a fish house, this is basically a showroom for the fish, without having a load of tanks dotted about the house. I will try an upload some current photos of the room and fish later when I get home, below is the only pic I have of the garage so far, but this is what I'm working with, it's taken from the site we found the house to buy As you can see, I can't relly run any electricity from the house as it's a fair distance.

 

[kniesh]

Could anyone answer this electricity question please? I am running 200watt heaters mostly, with a voltage of 120. so this means the amp usage is 200/120 = 1.67 each?

I only ask as the big filter I'm running is run off a 240 Volt, from 55 Watt so would come to - 0.23, which seems very low?

 

[skjl47]

Hello; Not sure what the terms or standards may be in your part of the world. In the USA it was common for a house to be run from a 100 amp breaker box. A lot of houses now need 200 amp boxes. I imagine many need more than 200 amps.

Another thing to consider is the way service is setup. It sounds like you do not plan to run a line from the service of the house. Here that will require a separate service, meter, power head and breaker box. Perhaps even a new pole set in the ground. This also means a separate bill with all the taxes, fees and a minimum payment each month. It could be that running a line from the house service will be more cost effective over time.

Is it possible that there already a line running from the house? If so the small fuse/breaker box in the garage is just to have a shut off and circuit protection at the garage. If the folks did not use much electricity they would have installed ligh duty stuff. It may be that the line from the house is already of sufficent gauge (thickness) to carry the amperage. You might only need to upgrade the box in the garage. This is worth checking out.

You say an electrician is comming out. Why not run your questions by him/her? He/she will know the local codes and should be able to give the best answer.

 

[Pharaoh]

You could probably estimate based off of what you have calculated. Since you haven't acknowledged any input, I shall refrain from providing any additional commentary.

 

[kniesh]

I am taking it on board, I have now pretty much decided on the foam insulation, once someone suggests something, I go away an look it up as its all pretty much new to me. But all input very welcome, I do look into it all.

The doors will probably be my main concern now, as they are metal, but have gaps top and bottom, so not sure how I fill them and keep them in use, I dont want to build a new door

 

[kniesh]

Sorry if it looks like Im ignoring the advice, I'm not, I'm just going away an researching afterwards before deciding, so please keep it coming