Catch locations

[dan518]

How accurate do people think we need to be to ensure we have the species we think we have and to future proof it from further changes in taxonomy?
Is it enough to know the river/lake or do we need to the which side of the lake or were abouts on the river or even GPS reading.

 

[PYRU]

Depends on the fish I guess. Jags I'm fine with Nic, Honduran, etc. Istlanum I would like a little more detail. Midas & red devils I want location, GPS coordinates, and pictures of catching it in that location along with a the average consensus of 5 researchers

 

[ragin_cajun]

I think just the river or lake is enough, and the vendor is reputable and can be trusted to source the fish from where he says it comes from.

BIG lakes like Lake Managua, Lake Nicaragua, with lots of areas and different rivers feeding into them, different populations of fish in different areas of the lake, you want to see the Lake, then some kinda name indicating the area of the lake. It may not mean much to you, but it'd be important to a researcher, scientist, or knowledgeable breeder.

But, for Vieja, for example, just the river is fine. I don't think there's a difference in populations of Zonatus from one part of Rio Coatzacolcas versus another part of the same river--I don't think anyway. If there is, then you'd need a name of a river and then a town or area on the river to distinguish the fish collection point.

 

[duanes]

If you are just buying a fish because you like the way it looks, I don't think it matters at all.
If you are breeding cichlids, and you expect anyone to believe have a pure species, and will be willing to pay anything for it, it may be necessary to provide as much info as you can. In todays world of random hybridization I don't expect to get anything real any more unless the breeder real gives a .... ,
and is willing to provide as much proof as possible.
I have a feeling that sometime in the near future for those who care, there will need to be a paper trail, just like there is for pure bred dogs, ad cost may become problematic.
So far there are certain species, that due to rarity, or the difficulty to get spawning with even those of their own species, that can be reasonably thought to be pure.
But the more posts I see about someone trying to breed an argentea with a breidhori, or a bulleri with a pearsei make me question how long even those special other than simply cichlid versions of goldfish will last.

 

[Stanzzzz7]

Catch location is not always a true guarantee you have what you have been sold.
The veija of the rio jaltepec are still much in confusion.
Zonatus, guttulatus and sp,coatzacoalas are often sold,and by reputable supplier's,as each other.Regardless of location there is still a lot of confusion with the zonatus group.Some experts believe they could be natural hybrids or colour variants of the same species. I guess more Dna work needs to be done.
It was a similar situation with veija synspilum and melanura. They were once believed to be two different species. Eventually it turned out they were no more than geographical variants of the same fish.

 

[darth pike]

If they want to give me "20 meters from the bend in the stream on the left bank in .7 meters of water at these exact GPS coordinates" ... then I'm a happy camper.

 

[dan518]

I agree with most of what's been said, I think vieja and amphilophus sp are the biggest problem, I have seen people with wc a amarillo from Lake Xiloá but can you be sure its that when you all so have a xiloaensis and a sagittae from the same lake

 

[duanes]

I agree a "location" title does not assure guarantee that it isn't a snake oil hybrid, but compared to a LFS that has no idea of the difference between FM and a JD is, it does say something about the level of knowledge the keeper has.
and yes location, can just mean "location variant" not species.
But if someone like Jeff Rapps (for eg) lists Vieja melanura Rio Candelaria, you know he knows what he's listing, as opposed to Joe down the street saying he has Vieja "something" (that's probably mixed with something else) because he or she wanted to make a new Pokemon cichlid.

 

[cichlidfish]

I agree a "location" title does not assure guarantee that it isn't a snake oil hybrid, but compared to a LFS that has no idea of the difference between FM and a JD is, it does say something about the level of knowledge the keeper has.
and yes location, can just mean "location variant" not species.
But if someone like Jeff Rapps (for eg) lists Vieja melanura Rio Candelaria, you know he knows what he's listing, as opposed to Joe down the street saying he has Vieja "something" (that's probably mixed with something else) because he or she wanted to make a new Pokemon cichlid.

Agree. If I'm looking for a fish from a specific location, there are few I would order from (like Jeff) and if LFS I would have to see them in person. Judging by all of the "ID" threads, there must be a lot of questionable LFS. I think LFS just ignore scientific names when ordering stock, but I would avoid stores like that.

 

[duanes]

Cichlidfish makes a good point, if you acquire a Herichthys carpintus "Escondido", you will probably be reasonably sure you are (at least) getting a carpintus.
If you go into a store and buy a Texas cichlid, the chance that you could be getting any one of 3 or maybe more species could be the result.
Just like if you buy a "red terror" it would equally true to get a uropthalmus, or a festae.
Come to think of it I have heard Texas cichlids also being listed as Pearl cichlids.
Years ago Pearl cichlids were Geophagus braziliensus in my area, but then a little later any Geophagine started to be listed as a pearl cichlid, and pretty soon Texas cichlids were lumped in the moniker, on and on, you get my point.
This is one of the problems I have with common names, and why a scientific name is so important, and then if you add a location point, even better if you are anal like I am.
Because one of my main interests is spawning my cichlids, accuracy is paramount.
If I just wanted a community tank with colorful cichlids, it might not matter.