Clown Pleco with Fire Eels

Fish Tank Travis

Potamotrygon
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Ahh, ok, that's what I was concerned about. My eels do spend pretty much all day laying under rocks or plants and I wasn't sure if a clown pleco would try and go for their slime coat. The clown pleco seems much more docile and smaller than a common pleco, which I know gets huge and is usually aggressive towards other large fish. However, if the clown pleco would also go for them then I definitely don't want to add it to the tank, regardless of the affect on bioload.
 

kewpiefishypewpie

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Yeah it doesn't make much sense to me to add a pleco to take care of an algae problem. Brown algae is a product of nitrates and phosphates among other things, correct? Or am I mistaken? So it's kind of counterproductive to add a fish that's going to add to the nitrates, when the goal of adding the fish is to remove algae-of which thrives off the nitrates.
 

Warborg

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The 2 reasons why plecos will suck on other fish is because they are underfed and fighting over space.

With that said I've never known clowns to suck on other fish...they do need wood though
 

Coryloach

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The clown pleco seems much more docile and smaller than a common pleco, which I know gets huge and is usually aggressive towards other large fish
A common pleco is totally non-aggressive. The most aggressive I've seen them is when protecting their cucumber /mango/melon, etc....if they ever see one in the tank. They are peaceful with the smallest of fish. People wrongly think that due to the sizes they reach they can go along with aggressive fish.

Brown algae is a product of nitrates and phosphates among other things, correct?
No. This it not entirely correct. Brown algae is not really algae but tiny organisms that explode when there is too much ammonia going through the system. Overfeeding and overstocking along with underfiltering, lack of any plants to compensate.... are all the factors that drive brown algae(diatoms) grow. They are very adaptive organisms and usually quite harmless unless they get their conditions. They are healthy food for fish on another hand...
 
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Fish Tank Travis

Potamotrygon
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A common pleco is totally non-aggressive. The most aggressive I've seen them is when protecting their cucumber /mango/melon, etc....if they ever see one in the tank. They are peaceful with the smallest of fish. People wrongly think that due to the sizes they reach they can go along with aggressive fish.



No. This it not entirely correct. Brown algae is not really algae but tiny organisms that explode when there is too much ammonia going through the system. Overfeeding and overstocking along with underfiltering, lack of any plants to compensate.... are all the factors that drive brown algae(diatoms) grow. They are very adaptive organisms and usually quite harmless unless they get their conditions. They are healthy food for fish on another hand...
I have noticed that the common plecos don't care much about smaller fish, but they are agressive towards larger fish. I have seen this first-hand when we added a larger angel fish to our aquarium many years ago. It wasn't even a full minute before the common pleco latched onto the angel's side and drug it to the bottom. We tried to separate the two but the pleco would not let the angel go and ended up killing it.
 
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kewpiefishypewpie

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A common pleco is totally non-aggressive. The most aggressive I've seen them is when protecting their cucumber /mango/melon, etc....if they ever see one in the tank. They are peaceful with the smallest of fish. People wrongly think that due to the sizes they reach they can go along with aggressive fish.



No. This it not entirely correct. Brown algae is not really algae but tiny organisms that explode when there is too much ammonia going through the system. Overfeeding and overstocking along with underfiltering, lack of any plants to compensate.... are all the factors that drive brown algae(diatoms) grow. They are very adaptive organisms and usually quite harmless unless they get their conditions. They are healthy food for fish on another hand...
Thanks very much for the clarification!
 

Fish Tank Travis

Potamotrygon
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A common pleco is totally non-aggressive. The most aggressive I've seen them is when protecting their cucumber /mango/melon, etc....if they ever see one in the tank. They are peaceful with the smallest of fish. People wrongly think that due to the sizes they reach they can go along with aggressive fish.



No. This it not entirely correct. Brown algae is not really algae but tiny organisms that explode when there is too much ammonia going through the system. Overfeeding and overstocking along with underfiltering, lack of any plants to compensate.... are all the factors that drive brown algae(diatoms) grow. They are very adaptive organisms and usually quite harmless unless they get their conditions. They are healthy food for fish on another hand...
Can you see any reason why I would have so much brown algae in my tank? It has an extremely well established bio filter. My ammo and nitrites are always 0 and with ~60% water change every week my nitrates are always under 20ppm. The two fire eels are the only inhabitants and they definitely eat every bit of food I put in there. I just really don't see why there would be so much brown algae. The only reason I was thinking about a clown pleco to remedy it is because I have one in my son's tank and once it got settled in it completely cleaned the entire tank and continues to keep it clean. I'm a bit at a loss but I would rather have the brown algae and enjoy my eels than to put them at risk with a pleco that might latch onto them.
 

Coryloach

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My ammo and nitrites are always 0
The key here is that the ammonia in a tank is never zero. Otherwise it defeats the purpose of having filtration. And there are a variety of organisms that consume ammonia in a tank, not just the nitrifying bacteria.

What happens it that when the nitrifying bacteria isn't coping for one or another reason, other organisms like diatoms pop up and compensate by consuming the left over ammonia. The end result is you seeing no reading on the ammonia test but your tank gets diatom outbreaks. Other tanks may get an algae outbreak instead, e.g. black brush algae, etc..

In fact, what matters in a tank is not the level of nitrates, but the actual amount of ammonia that goes through nitrification in order to become nitrates. However, we have no way of measuring what ammonia is produced, so we measure nitrates instead. If you need to do too much water changes to keep nitrates at 0(not taking into account the unreliability of nitrate tests in the first place), then there is too much bioload in the tank.

What I would do to remedy this is:
Keep the filter media clean of detritus(pre-filter on the intake helps);
Increase surface agitation to increase oxygen content which in turn will speed up nitrification;
Feed the fish less. Overfeeding is a possible issue;
Add one more filter. Its possible the filtration is not sufficient for the bioload. Or add easy emersed plants such as photos plant to consume the extra ammonia. Underwater plants work well too if the inhabitants can tolerate them.
If not of the above works, you need a bigger tank. (just saw that the tank is only 29G)...I think you simply need to upgrade and the tank can't cope with the bioload from the fire eels anymore)
 
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Coryloach

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I have noticed that the common plecos don't care much about smaller fish, but they are agressive towards larger fish. I have seen this first-hand when we added a larger angel fish to our aquarium many years ago. It wasn't even a full minute before the common pleco latched onto the angel's side and drug it to the bottom. We tried to separate the two but the pleco would not let the angel go and ended up killing it.
Hungry plecos of any type can get a taste for fish's slime coat. This is especially common when angel fish and discus are around because of their shape. And it is also unfortunate that most big pleco species are severely underfed and often suffer malnutrition when privately kept. My guess is that you got one very hungry pleco which had already developed a taste for fish due to lack of other food. This is totally uncommon though and driven by hunger. Common plecos in nature are Detritus eaters. They don't eat other fish of any size unless they are dead and lying on the substrate. If you raise a common pleco from a baby size, and feed it a quality diet as per its size, it will never touch any type of fish regardless of size.
 

Fish Tank Travis

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The key here is that the ammonia in a tank is never zero. Otherwise it defeats the purpose of having filtration. And there are a variety of organisms that consume ammonia in a tank, not just the nitrifying bacteria.

What happens it that when the nitrifying bacteria isn't coping for one or another reason, other organisms like diatoms pop up and compensate by consuming the left over ammonia. The end result is you seeing no reading on the ammonia test but your tank gets diatom outbreaks. Other tanks may get an algae outbreak instead, e.g. black brush algae, etc..

In fact, what matters in a tank is not the level of nitrates, but the actual amount of ammonia that goes through nitrification in order to become nitrates. However, we have no way of measuring what ammonia is produced, so we measure nitrates instead. If you need to do too much water changes to keep nitrates at 0(not taking into account the unreliability of nitrate tests in the first place), then there is too much bioload in the tank.

What I would do to remedy this is:
Keep the filter media clean of detritus(pre-filter on the intake helps);
Increase surface agitation to increase oxygen content which in turn will speed up nitrification;
Feed the fish less. Overfeeding is a possible issue;
Add one more filter. Its possible the filtration is not sufficient for the bioload. Or add easy emersed plants such as photos plant to consume the extra ammonia. Underwater plants work well too if the inhabitants can tolerate them.
If not of the above works, you need a bigger tank. (just saw that the tank is only 29G)...I think you simply need to upgrade and the tank can't cope with the bioload from the fire eels anymore)
It definitely could be needing a bigger tank. I am still working on the 220 setup in my garage but as soon as it's finished, it will be the eels' new home.

I don't think it's a lack of filtration. I have a SunSun 303B, with UV steralizer, that is rated at 375gph (probably only 250gph after filling it with media). I also have an internal filter rated at 180gph (again, probably only about 150 after filling it with media). That's a total of about 400gph, or about 14X turnover in the tank.

I will just continue with my original plan to keep the pleco out and get my 220 setup asap.
 
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