Got burned by Cichlids of the Americas

RD.

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Agreed, thanks for your post neutrino.
 

lunsforj

Aimara
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Aug 6, 2009
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Neutrino wouldn't that be dependent on a case by case basis? As you stated, "some" species are programmed to respond to environmental triggers, and just because it has been shown that a certain stickleback responds in this manner, I assume one can not infer similar capabilities throughout all ichthyes.
 

neutrino

Goliath Tigerfish
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Jan 22, 2013
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Neutrino wouldn't that be dependent on a case by case basis? As you stated, "some" species are programmed to respond to environmental triggers, and just because it has been shown that a certain stickleback responds in this manner, I assume one can not infer similar capabilities throughout all ichthyes.
Pretty much.

I say some species, partly so as not to overreach my knowledge on the subject, also because some species or genera seem much more resistant to producing diversity. For example, the Cyphotilapia genus (two recognized species, frontosa and gibberosa, only minor differences between them), is considered an ancient lineage, not descended from or ancestral to other modern genera and considered fairly distantly related to other cichlids in the lake. Very little adaptive radiation apparent there. Ceolacanths are another example that comes to mind, two modern species, not much change for millions of years.

Meanwhile, other types are known for their propensity for adaptive radiation, sometimes within brief time periods. So, to go ahead and state the obvious, some lineages, species, or genera are apparently genetically equipped to be more adaptable to differing environments than others.

Another interesting thing that's come out of genetic testing, also 'case by case', is that animals (including fish) that 'look' very similar sometimes turn out not to be closely related at all while some that 'look' more different turn out to be very closely related. Recent genetic science has turned a lot of things on their heads and, as the maxim states, "looks can be deceiving".
 

lunsforj

Aimara
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Very fascinating. I have never heard that about cyphotilapia. I know genetic testing really shook up what people thought about anemone fish species, and the relationships between the complexes.
 

jgentry

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Aug 22, 2008
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Simple fact is there is no way to know if you have a cit or a lab or a xilo, or a sag, or any combination of them all based on looks. I'm not sure why people still keep thinking they can do this, simple fact is you cannot. The Midas from COA looks like it just needs to be beefed up a little. Different collection points will also have slightly different looks and you can even have slightly different looks between fry in the same spawn. There is also zero proof that the cits in lake Arnel were human introduced. Dig a pond in your back yard and see how many years it takes for fish to magically appear in it. Nature finds a way. Could people have dumped them in, yes. Could they have naturally found there way, also yes.

OP you posted something extremely uneducated. If you want to say that you are happier and like the look of the Rapps fish more then that is perfectly fair. To say that COA sent you a midevil is extremely wreckless and I can see why you got no customer support.

Both COA and Rapps have sold a ton of great fish to the community. Both have also had some unhappy customers or deals that just didn't go as planned. It happens in any business.

About 3 years ago I placed a large order with COA that got stuck at a fedex hub. I had to drive to get them 8 hrs late and the box was crushed, most of the bags leaking or empty, all of the water in the mid 50's. I emailed Dan to let him know and he instantly called me. Told me not to worry about it and to go home, see if anything can be revived and he will send a replacement shipment with everything that doesn't make it. He didn't even ask me for pictures and this was and order close to $1000. Luckily CA cichlids are some tough SOB's and I was able to save over half the order. Dan sent me replacements for everything that didn't make it. Some of them were the last of what he had so he bought more from a friend that also sells fish just to ship them to me. He's always been great and will answer any question I have about how he got the fish. No big secrets.

I had an order from Rapps probably 8-10 years ago were I got sent incorrect fish. It was a struggle to get anything other then grow them out and see. I finally got a small refund after I found out other people were given credit for the exact same issue. I took it personal and made a bigger deal out of it then it was. I was younger and quicker to get pissed about $100 back then. Looking back I we probably both should have handled it slightly differently. I certainly shouldn't have gotten that upset about getting the wrong severum fry. It wasn't at all important in the big picture of life and I should have been a little more understanding of how hard it is to run the business that Rapps does. 2 wrongs do not make a right.

The moral of both stories are that you have 2 guys trying to make a living breeding, importing, and selling fish that have to be shipped in bags of water all over the country. It's not always going to be perfect and each fish and order will be different. I'm just happy both of them are willing to do what they do at this point.
 

GI Roughrider

Feeder Fish
Oct 19, 2016
2
0
1
64
Simple fact is there is no way to know if you have a cit or a lab or a xilo, or a sag, or any combination of them all based on looks. I'm not sure why people still keep thinking they can do this, simple fact is you cannot. The Midas from COA looks like it just needs to be beefed up a little. Different collection points will also have slightly different looks and you can even have slightly different looks between fry in the same spawn. There is also zero proof that the cits in lake Arnel were human introduced. Dig a pond in your back yard and see how many years it takes for fish to magically appear in it. Nature finds a way. Could people have dumped them in, yes. Could they have naturally found there way, also yes.

OP you posted something extremely uneducated. If you want to say that you are happier and like the look of the Rapps fish more then that is perfectly fair. To say that COA sent you a midevil is extremely wreckless and I can see why you got no customer support.

Both COA and Rapps have sold a ton of great fish to the community. Both have also had some unhappy customers or deals that just didn't go as planned. It happens in any business.

About 3 years ago I placed a large order with COA that got stuck at a fedex hub. I had to drive to get them 8 hrs late and the box was crushed, most of the bags leaking or empty, all of the water in the mid 50's. I emailed Dan to let him know and he instantly called me. Told me not to worry about it and to go home, see if anything can be revived and he will send a replacement shipment with everything that doesn't make it. He didn't even ask me for pictures and this was and order close to $1000. Luckily CA cichlids are some tough SOB's and I was able to save over half the order. Dan sent me replacements for everything that didn't make it. Some of them were the last of what he had so he bought more from a friend that also sells fish just to ship them to me. He's always been great and will answer any question I have about how he got the fish. No big secrets.

I had an order from Rapps probably 8-10 years ago were I got sent incorrect fish. It was a struggle to get anything other then grow them out and see. I finally got a small refund after I found out other people were given credit for the exact same issue. I took it personal and made a bigger deal out of it then it was. I was younger and quicker to get pissed about $100 back then. Looking back I we probably both should have handled it slightly differently. I certainly shouldn't have gotten that upset about getting the wrong severum fry. It wasn't at all important in the big picture of life and I should have been a little more understanding of how hard it is to run the business that Rapps does. 2 wrongs do not make a right.

The moral of both stories are that you have 2 guys trying to make a living breeding, importing, and selling fish that have to be shipped in bags of water all over the country. It's not always going to be perfect and each fish and order will be different. I'm just happy both of them are willing to do what they do at this point.

Can I get a Amen... I`ve had a couple issues with Rapps, but i
 

Twonvito

Plecostomus
MFK Member
Oct 22, 2015
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www.brooklynaquatics.com
I personally think this thread has taken a turn from what was expressed in the first place. Whether or not you can distinguish Amphilophus sp. Labiatus or citrinellus. It was solely how the person felt and the title shouldve been different, but hey what's done is done. Tho alot of valid points. Its only what he felt he received. Being said that pictures of the stock and of the fish that was going to be received shouldve been request to handle any discrepancies about certain traits. I thought his thread was to be a voice not get slammed on who like this vendor and who like that vendor.
 

Rsc89

Jack Dempsey
MFK Member
Sep 21, 2016
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Oh boy Twonvito, your asking for it! Lol. Your going to get the fan boys jumping out of the wood works on this one lol.

I agree with you 100% and couldnt have said it better myself. This site needs a feedback section....but then again all the trolls and fan boys would plug up the servers with all their internet bashing.

Its a shame people cant share negative experiences with others on this site. Just because Dan and Jeff sell fish doesnt make them gods.
 

Twonvito

Plecostomus
MFK Member
Oct 22, 2015
369
246
61
New York City
www.brooklynaquatics.com
Oh boy Twonvito, your asking for it! Lol. Your going to get the fan boys jumping out of the wood works on this one lol.

I agree with you 100% and couldnt have said it better myself. This site needs a feedback section....but then again all the trolls and fan boys would plug up the servers with all their internet bashing.

Its a shame people cant share negative experiences with others on this site. Just because Dan and Jeff sell fish doesnt make them gods.
Lol.. I actually said that when I was posting it. I couldn't agree more with you.
 
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RD.

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LOL, you gents obviously haven't been members very long? Lots of bashing of various online vendors has taken place over the years, including this one. The point is, the OP was off the mark with his complaint. It simply wasn't a valid complaint. The OP's complaint was due to his own ignorance, no fault of this vendor. And I agree with jgentry, stating that COA burned him by sending him a midevil was extremely wreckless.

Ryan, you on the other hand could have started a thread about your recent situation, and named the vendor, and I suspect that it wouldn't have ended like this one.
 
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