Tank Nightmare and Unhealthy Polypterus (maybe?)

Mystic

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Jan 15, 2008
5
0
0
Wisconsin
Hello everyone, I'm new to the forums and would like to say this seems like a great resource with a lot of good information, so perhaps someone might be able to lend some insight into a few problems I'm having with my tank.

I have a 55 gallon freshwater system which I initially started as a planted tank with a red shouldered severum, an angelicus synodontis, a breeding pair of T-bar cichlids, a palmas polypterus and an ornate polypterus. Not an ideal mix further down the road (namely the T-bars), but since all of the larger fish were still quite young/small and everyone was getting along great I decided to leave them be until the Polypterus got big enough to possibly start thinking of the T-bars as dinner. Everything went beautifully for a month or so, but the plants were having a little trouble so I upgraded my lighting setup and decided to try a DIY yeast CO2 system, which worked great. Unfortunately, eventually some yeast ended up in the tank, which started what has become my most frustrating fish experience to date (the yeast/fungus will *not* go away), but I'll get back to that later.

Out of frustration I removed the yeast system and purchased a Carbo Plus unit, which worked wonderfully. Just when the plants were all starting to perk back up, I added a gold nugget pleco. Big mistake, because I didn't quarantine it. It was the usual story. Looked perfect at the store, then broke out into a horrible case of ich the very next day after I brought it home. And of course, very shortly after, all of my other fish except for the two polypterus became infested as well. Oh, and did I mention the T-bars had bred and were nursing an adorable school of fry? Needless to say, I tried everything I could think of that would not immediately kill the plants: water changes, temperature adjustments, adding just enough salt... and when the ich only got worse I did finally dose the tank with Maracide, which still didn't help.

Every single fish in the tank died except for the Polypterus, which I then finally moved into a 20 gallon quarantine set-up that my boyfriend eventually let me buy (too late, unfortunately). Then the Palmas died the next day (most likely from stress and too much medication it never needed), leaving me with only the ornate. Sadly, I was forced to toss all of my plants because, although they held up surprisingly well during the ich treatment, that whole debacle caused me to neglect my near-constant yeast/fungus removal (once that stuff got in the tank, it simply refused to die, and especially loved growing on my driftwood) and soon the whitish/yellowish fungus grew onto my plants and began smothering them. Plus, to be honest I was at the point where I realized I would have to simply start fresh, and just didn't want to deal with trying to save the plants anymore.

So I tore the tank down, threw out the plants, boiled all of the driftwood and rocks, disinfected the heater, filter, etc and the tank itself. Then I set everything up new and this time filled it with R/O water (with some R/O right) just to be extra careful. I ran it for a couple of weeks and the fungus did not return. So I put the ornate back in, only to find a day later that the same yeasty fungus had begun to grow in the quarantine tank, which meant it had transfered with the fish (even though I did not dump any of my old aquarium water into the new tank.) As a test, I tried treating the empty (but still running) quarantine tank with various true fungal meds. None helped, except at doses too high to be fish-safe. In fact, nothing ever really helped in either tank other than completely re-doing the set-up. I scrubbed it off the glass and suctioned it off the gravel, and boiling the driftwood would kill it, but it would always come back because I could never get rid of every last speck in the tank. So far, the main tank was still fungus-free, so I brought home a ropefish and added it to the tank (after quarantine.) Everything was going fine again, but then my worst fears came true and the fungus reappeared. It seems I could never get rid of it because it was hitchhiking on the fish (only logical explanation after bleaching/boiling everything), even though the ornate was actually quite healthy, with no fungus visible on its body at all.

Anyway, disheartened, I gave up on completely getting rid of it and am now back to simply cleaning off as much as I can. It never gets out of control, but is always growing on something. Because of this, I have yet to re-introduce plants (or buy new fish.. lets say my enthusiasm has dampened), but the carbo plus unit is still in the tank (unplugged) because I went and bought a new carbon block for it, thinking I was going to re-plant the tank, and now that it's wet, if I let it dry I'll have to buy a new one again (money that seems silly to spend.) The tank has been this way, with only the ornate and the ropefish, for 2 and a half months.

Now, the reason I gave all those details (other than hoping someone, somewhere, might know what I can do to get rid of the fungus) is because lately it is starting to look like both the polypterus and the ropefish are not in great condition. They do seem quite happy and healthy. They are not at all skinny, are brightly colored, and are active and curious. However, both fish have tiny holes which have slowly appeared on their heads. I am concerned about HITH, but have before only seen it appear as large holes which slowly get bigger and bigger. These do not... they stay very small, but you can definately tell they are holes. Like a series of pinpricks. In addition, one of the ornate's front fins has become slightly smaller than the other and a bit mishapen, and now very recently, both of the ropefish's front fins also appear to be, well, shrinking. Not rotting, although that may be possible, but it really doesn't look like fin-rot.

The tank water is very clean (no ammonia or nitrites, only trace amounts of nitrates) and I do regular filter maintenance and weekly water changes (plus it is a pretty large tank for a total of 10 inches of fish, much of that being a very long but thin one). I feed the fish a combination diet of Hikari sinking carnivore pellets and a variety of frozen food, including mysis shrimp, bloodworms and krill (and some small silversides for the ornate... the ropefish is still too small to fit them in her mouth). Do you think this might be an issue of malnutrition? Is it possible they are exposed to too much carbon (between the filter and the carbo plus)? Or is it something else entirely? I honestly have no idea. As for the fungus in the tank, it has never appeared on the fish, but it has been present in the tank for... 4.5 months now.

-Ariel
 

Aquaman_95

Jack Dempsey
MFK Member
Apr 6, 2007
2,019
2
38
29
Warner Robins Georgia
Well welcome to the forum! Yes Polypterus's can be very hardy. I have noticed they don't get alot of dieaseses. I think that you should just clean out your tank,and wash it with hot water. Get new substrate and new plants. Instead of the DIY yeast why not just get a large filter and add a bubbler to your fish tank ( a device that blows air in your tank ) But there is my two cents worth. Oh and don't give up on keeping fish you will regret it. As for your fish go you had some nice fish.
 

Aquaman_95

Jack Dempsey
MFK Member
Apr 6, 2007
2,019
2
38
29
Warner Robins Georgia
Well welcome to the forum! Yes Polypterus's can be very hardy. I have noticed they don't get alot of dieaseses. I think that you should just clean out your tank,and wash it with hot water. Get new substrate and new plants. Instead of the DIY yeast why not just get a large filter and add a bubbler to your fish tank ( a device that blows air in your tank ) But there is my two cents worth. Oh and don't give up on keeping fish you will regret it. As for your fish go you had some nice fish.
 

Nick660

Gambusia
MFK Member
Jun 9, 2007
471
1
16
South Wales, UK
Welcome to MFK.

Wow, I can see how this problem must be really frustrating for you :(

Unfortunately I'm not familiar with how yeast would establish itself in an aquarium! Personally I think the yeast/fungus has most likely been re-introduced to your tank on a piece of driftwood or other porous item rather than on a fish.

Personally I would strip the tank down again, scrub clean everything completely with a strong bleach solution and then restart it completely empty, no substrate, no ornaments, nothing but water. Give it a month and see what happens. You could cycle it using a fishless cycling method ( http://www.tropicalfishcentre.co.uk/Fishlesscycle.htm) during this time, ready for the introduction of your fish. I would avoid plants initially and just concentrate on the fish until you are sure the fungal problem has gone. Don't use the carbon block thing either.
When your fish go in they will be fine with a bare tank (you could give them some pvc pipe to hide in if you wanted).
Once you are sure everything is ok you can gradually develop the setup to your taste.

As far as the fish are concerned, it does sound like HITH (I'm unfamiliar with polypterus though) even though your food and water quality sound fine. Of course, your fish have been through a lot! If your pH is stable then I would do as many large, frequent water changes as you can manage.

Sounds a big job I know, but after all that :nilly:, and with a bit of luck, you may have rekindled your interest in the hobby aswell!

Good luck and I hope you stick with it :thumbsup:

P.S. A shame you're not in the UK because I've got a syno angelicus who needs a new home. I have two but they don't get along unfortunately. Great fish though.
 

Mystic

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Jan 15, 2008
5
0
0
Wisconsin
Thanks for the advice guys.

Aquaman: I imagine in my very long and rambling post I probably wasn't incredibly clear about everything, but I did get rid of the yeast set up quite some time ago, as soon as the tank became contaminated. I did also clean the tank and equipment very thoroughly (bleach solution and/or boiling water) and throw out the plants. The filter is an Aquaclear 70, and actually I was going to purchase a second one but since I've only had the two fish in there for awhile now I'm waiting until the tank is a little better stocked. A bubbler would be bad for plants, if I did re-introduce plants to the tank, as it would be adding too much O2, rather than the CO2 they need, although I'm sure the fish wouldn't mind.

Nick: That is too bad, as I would love another angelicus. I was pretty upset when the first one died. I too was wondering if the yeast might have simply never been entirely removed from the driftwood (I did not bleach the wood because I have found that to generally be a bad idea... at the store I used to work at someone tried it and no matter how much we rinsed and air-dried it we were never able to use the bleached driftwood again... if we put it in a tank the fish immediately became quite sick.) but even if that were the case it doesn't explain how the fungus got into the quarantine tank, because the only thing in there from the main tank was the fish. That was why I assumed that when I re-introduced the ornate, the main tank became re-infected (fungus did not reappear until then.) It sounds a bit far-fetched to me too, but perhaps once there is yeast present in the water, only a few drops from the fish's body could carry it to another tank. I have been thinking about tearing the tank down again and this time simply throwing out all the gravel and rocks and driftwood, setting it up bare for awhile as you suggested before buying new stuff, but my worry is that after all that trouble (and throwing out a rather expensive set of tank decor) the fungus will still reappear. It's the issue with the quarantine tank that makes me think it will, because it grew in there with absolutely no decorations to hitch onto (nothing in that tank but a heater and a filter.)

I think I will take out the carbo unit, though. I really didn't want to shell out another $40 for a new block, but if there's a question that its presence in the tank might be unhealthy, I'd rather throw out a $40 chunk of carbon than a $75 dead polypterus (who I admit I have gotten pretty attached to.) As for hole-in-the-head, does anyone have suggestions as far as better nutrition? I was thinking a vitamin supplement, but don't know which one(s) would be good.

Thanks!
 

Nick660

Gambusia
MFK Member
Jun 9, 2007
471
1
16
South Wales, UK
I wouldn't throw out the decor....maybe soak it in a bucket of bleach, dry it out, and keep it out of the equation for the time being. I'm not familiar with the carbon block thing as to whether it might harbor fungus but I'm sure I read that the presence of carbon is a possible contributary factor to HITH?

My reasoning would be to keep things as simple as possible to begin with, then gradually make one change at a time so that if a problem emerges you'll get a better clue of the likely cause.

Did you say you've treated the fish with anti-fungal medication? Maybe try it again just before moving them back to the bare main tank. I'm not sure whether there is some sort of short bath/dip type fungus treatment you could use between tanks, that might be another option.
 

tanks4thememories

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Aug 16, 2008
78
0
0
NJ
tanks4thememories.blogspot.com
Mystic;1425708; said:
Thanks for the advice guys.

Aquaman: I imagine in my very long and rambling post I probably wasn't incredibly clear about everything, but I did get rid of the yeast set up quite some time ago, as soon as the tank became contaminated. I did also clean the tank and equipment very thoroughly (bleach solution and/or boiling water) and throw out the plants. The filter is an Aquaclear 70, and actually I was going to purchase a second one but since I've only had the two fish in there for awhile now I'm waiting until the tank is a little better stocked. A bubbler would be bad for plants, if I did re-introduce plants to the tank, as it would be adding too much O2, rather than the CO2 they need, although I'm sure the fish wouldn't mind.

Nick: That is too bad, as I would love another angelicus. I was pretty upset when the first one died. I too was wondering if the yeast might have simply never been entirely removed from the driftwood (I did not bleach the wood because I have found that to generally be a bad idea... at the store I used to work at someone tried it and no matter how much we rinsed and air-dried it we were never able to use the bleached driftwood again... if we put it in a tank the fish immediately became quite sick.) but even if that were the case it doesn't explain how the fungus got into the quarantine tank, because the only thing in there from the main tank was the fish. That was why I assumed that when I re-introduced the ornate, the main tank became re-infected (fungus did not reappear until then.) It sounds a bit far-fetched to me too, but perhaps once there is yeast present in the water, only a few drops from the fish's body could carry it to another tank. I have been thinking about tearing the tank down again and this time simply throwing out all the gravel and rocks and driftwood, setting it up bare for awhile as you suggested before buying new stuff, but my worry is that after all that trouble (and throwing out a rather expensive set of tank decor) the fungus will still reappear. It's the issue with the quarantine tank that makes me think it will, because it grew in there with absolutely no decorations to hitch onto (nothing in that tank but a heater and a filter.)

I think I will take out the carbo unit, though. I really didn't want to shell out another $40 for a new block, but if there's a question that its presence in the tank might be unhealthy, I'd rather throw out a $40 chunk of carbon than a $75 dead polypterus (who I admit I have gotten pretty attached to.) As for hole-in-the-head, does anyone have suggestions as far as better nutrition? I was thinking a vitamin supplement, but don't know which one(s) would be good.

Thanks!
Before you strip the tank down again try this:
Change 50% of the water everyday
Add a new dose of Jungle Brand's "Fungus Clear" after each water change

If you do strip it down put a UV sterilizer in line on the tank. It should keep the yeast out of the water column. If it is riding on the fish that should kill it before it gets hold in a bare tank. Then once your fish and your tank are both clear of fungus you can re-introduce the things you desire just as mentioned above.
 

tanks4thememories

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Aug 16, 2008
78
0
0
NJ
tanks4thememories.blogspot.com
tanks4thememories;2201634; said:
Before you strip the tank down again try this:
Change 50% of the water everyday
Add a new dose of Jungle Brand's "Fungus Clear" after each water change

If you do strip it down put a UV sterilizer in line on the tank. It should keep the yeast out of the water column. If it is riding on the fish that should kill it before it gets hold in a bare tank. Then once your fish and your tank are both clear of fungus you can re-introduce the things you desire just as mentioned above.
I recommend 10% as a minimum and that the items to be sterilized soak for at least an hour to be positive they are clear. As a means of disinfection in the instance of a fish tank I recommend the same solution as above but that you run the tank & filtration over night with no aeration (aeration dechlorinates water).
 

camber1981

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Oct 6, 2008
7
0
0
Genoa, IL
I know this is an old thread, but have you checked you PH? I did some research, and everything I've found suggests that yeast needs an acidic PH to grow. You can also test for the presence of yeast with Methylene Blue, which is used in some Ich medications.
 
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