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  1. #71
    Convict
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    Sorry but i didnt read the whole thread, but was this info based on the consumer buying the feeders from LFS and right as he gets home drops them into the predators tank for feed?

    when i get feeders i usualy "gut load" them as u would with feeder crickets, would that change the "nutritional value"?

    i also keep them in a tank with high current water flow





  2. #72
    Paleoaquarist Oddball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BallzDeepInU;1013351;
    Sorry but i didnt read the whole thread, but was this info based on the consumer buying the feeders from LFS and right as he gets home drops them into the predators tank for feed?

    when i get feeders i usualy "gut load" them as u would with feeder crickets, would that change the "nutritional value"?

    i also keep them in a tank with high current water flow
    No shortcuts here. Read the thread.
    http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/fo...ad.php?t=51703
    Custodis Piscis Eterna - Eternal Fishkeeper
    Carpe Piscis Extrarius - Seize the Oddball fish.
    Ad Mortem BOHICA



  3. #73
    Redbelly Piranha
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    hi oddball, it was a very enlightening read...must have taken an aweful lot of time to research all the info and even longer to type it out.....thanx a ton for the info and kuddos to u.



  4. #74
    Egg
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    WOW! Nice work.... Why doesnt anyone sell live silverside communities? In say 50 or 100 quantities?

    Sounds like a good idea to me????

    Mark



  5. #75
    Fathead Minnow
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    My word, Oddball, I don't know how you have the strength to not prune out all the ...less informative posts.

    Have you read any of Neale Monks' writings on the thiamine issue with coldwater freshwater fish? I know that in other postings that he's made elsewhere, he cites various scientific articles on the vitamin content of these fish. Sadly, the site that I know this article is posted on is down today, so I can't find the citations directly.

    In short form, Dr. Monks writes that coldwater FW fish such as goldfish and rosy reds are not suitable as feeders for freshwater fish either. As alluded to by certain other posters, this is because these coldwater fish contain Thiaminase, an enzyme which breaks down vitamin B (Thiamine). Since this vitamin helps the body absorb energy and also plays important roles in the nervous system, the excess of Thiaminase which occurs from a goldfish-rich diet directly offsets all the benefits attributable to using live feeder fish. Consideration should also be given to the fact that coldwater fish such as goldies and rosie-reds have much higher fat content than would normally be encountered by a tropical predator. For this reason, it is advisable to feed tropical predators tropical feeders such as livebearers or cichlids.

    "But aren't coldwater fish used to make commercial prepared diets?" Sure, but Thiaminase is broken down by cooking (heat) and excess fat content is removed from tropical feeds. The prepared diets are then fortified with various nutrients to be appropriate for a specific purpose and designed such that most of those nutrients are in turn consumed by the fish. The trick in this case is to select a food well-suited to the fish in question--and a manufacturer who can be relied on for good quality.

    I have a request! (Assuming that Oddball is even still paying attention to posts in this thread.) Would it be possible for you to post up some nutritional facts regarding tillapia as well? It seems that it could be a reasonable nutritional analogue to the tropical feeders seeing as it is (a) native to warm waters, (b) adaptable to brackish conditions like mollies/guppies and (c) a cichlid.



  6. #76
    Giant Gourami piggy67's Avatar
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    DO you put silversides in the same cat. as gold fish and rosie's
    "I sent a message to the fish:I told them this is what i wish. the little fishes of the sea,they sent a message back to me.The little fishes' answer was,'we cannot do it,SIR,because-"I sent to them again to say,'It will be better to obey.


    My tanks:http://www.youtube.com/user/piggypigfish?feature=mhum



  7. #77
    Paleoaquarist Oddball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pica_nuttalli;1208401;

    I have a request! (Assuming that Oddball is even still paying attention to posts in this thread.) Would it be possible for you to post up some nutritional facts regarding tillapia as well? It seems that it could be a reasonable nutritional analogue to the tropical feeders seeing as it is (a) native to warm waters, (b) adaptable to brackish conditions like mollies/guppies and (c) a cichlid.
    I do refer back to these threads as time permits. I made a post earlier on the disadvantages of using feeder goldfish and included the thiaminase issues.

    I'll check (as time allows) on the nutritional properties of tilapia. I'll check hatchery reports first since these facilities perform more frequent and intensive testing.
    http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/fo...ad.php?t=51703
    Custodis Piscis Eterna - Eternal Fishkeeper
    Carpe Piscis Extrarius - Seize the Oddball fish.
    Ad Mortem BOHICA



  8. #78
    Fathead Minnow
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    Quote Originally Posted by pica_nuttalli;1208401;
    Have you read any of Neale Monks' writings on the thiamine issue with coldwater freshwater fish? I know that in other postings that he's made elsewhere, he cites various scientific articles on the vitamin content of these fish. Sadly, the site that I know this article is posted on is down today, so I can't find the citations directly.

    In short form, Dr. Monks writes that coldwater FW fish such as goldfish and rosy reds are not suitable as feeders for freshwater fish either. As alluded to by certain other posters, this is because these coldwater fish contain Thiaminase, an enzyme which breaks down vitamin B (Thiamine). Since this vitamin helps the body absorb energy and also plays important roles in the nervous system, the excess of Thiaminase which occurs from a goldfish-rich diet directly offsets all the benefits attributable to using live feeder fish. Consideration should also be given to the fact that coldwater fish such as goldies and rosie-reds have much higher fat content than would normally be encountered by a tropical predator. For this reason, it is advisable to feed tropical predators tropical feeders such as livebearers or cichlids.

    "But aren't coldwater fish used to make commercial prepared diets?" Sure, but Thiaminase is broken down by cooking (heat) and excess fat content is removed from tropical feeds. The prepared diets are then fortified with various nutrients to be appropriate for a specific purpose and designed such that most of those nutrients are in turn consumed by the fish. The trick in this case is to select a food well-suited to the fish in question--and a manufacturer who can be relied on for good quality.
    What about feeding tropical freshwater predators tropical freshwater feeders?

    Thanks
    FF



  9. #79
    Egg
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    New to the Forum

    Hello everyone

    I would like to say that I love fish/tanks..I have 4 at my house all set up and ready.. I have a 125 gallon,55 gallon,75 gallon and a 10 gallon. All of them have fish except the 10 gallon tanks.



  10. #80
    Smallmouth Bass LittleBigAl3's Avatar
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    this is a ton of info...my eyes are all blurry now. very interesting, where did you find this? i've always thought live shrimp was the way to go and i guess i was right!
    75G::Tank::List
    1x - Scleropages Jardini
    1x - Polypterus Ornatipinnis

    1x - Bichir coming soon...



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