Designing the Ultimate Filtration System

[Dr Joe]

I applaud the effort you put in to this post. Very nice. I just have one possible improvement; kind of. I have been dealing more and more with a natural clay called calcium montmotillonite. There are numerous studies on this stuff and a lot of it has to do with champion Koi pond use among hundreds of other uses. They have found this mineral composition to be one of the biggest contributing factors in the "mud ponds" of Japan, where such massive filtration systems really aren't used or practical. It is proven to eliminate toxic waste products, bacteria and decomposed organic matter suspended in the water. I agree with the use of coarse and fine grain sand, but would urge more of us to use this mineral composition as a base layer.

This clay is of interest, but the more research the more questions .

This is liberated from http://www.amazon.com/Microbe-Lift-C...8028079&sr=1-5

"It is said that the secret to Japanese healthy, colorful koi is the clay mud in which they are raised. This powdered clay comes from one of the highest calcium clay deposits in the world. Plastic pre-formed ponds, as well as vinyl, cement and rubber ponds, do not have any nutrients on their bottoms. In the wild, carp actually use mud to get many of their micronutrients and minerals. This product has a negative electric charge, which will bind the clay particles to positively charged toxins in the water. The clay acts as a natural flocculent and the particles that are bound up are filtered out of the pond. So the clay is not only a nutrient source for koi, it will also "polish" your pond water."

First they say it provides "micronutrients and minerals" and it's great for the fish. Then they say it will poison them. They don't give a replacement schedule.

Dr Joe

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[Dr Joe]

I will do a deep sand bed today ( agree with Crashinc25, and will look for that clay of which I had heard of ).
I have large clay vases full of gravel in the sumps mid compartment but will add one big box full of sand (around 5 inches deep ).

Now Roadwarrior brought my mind again to the always lingering thought of the Baaki contraption. I see no way to include it in a normal sump system.

What could perhaps be done ( if one has the space alongside the sump ( as opposed to on top of the sump as Roadwarior suggests ) is to mount the Baaki system on the side, on top of a separate water container, with water being pumped in from the sump ( from one of the firts compartments ) onto the contraption and showering down through the media into the bottom of said container.
From there it would be pumped back into the sump ( into the last compartment so as to be pumped right back again into the tank ).

Could this work?

Dr Joe??

Not to detract from your long hours of typing but this is not a filter design, it's a money/size is no limit filter system, with a limited view.

If you'll take note most of our W/D systems (the good ones) are obtaining zero ammonia / nitrIte readings and if you provide a large enough bog nitrAtes can be reduced to zero too.

These "premium filter medias" claim to have more surface area because of microscopic tunnels & caves (what size are they that polluted molecules of water can past thru them with the bacteria in there too?). Bacteria grows on surfaces not in tunnels or caves, tho Bacteria House uses a cute little caricature of the bacteria living in a hole and coming out to feed ( http://www.momotaro-koi.org/english/bakuteria/index.htm ) .What they also neglect to say is that bacteria die and clog up these tunnels and caves, new bacteria feeds off of the dead bacteria and not from the 'nutrients' in the water. Now the bacteria dies and clogs up the system more. So these products start out great then level out.

Miguel, with your idea you have to balance pumps and without float or level switches it never works out, otherwise yep, it'll work.
RoadWarrior, pretty good write-up, you should do the math tho so you know the sizes your talking about. Since your the how about some credentials (ie do you have a tank or pond).

Dr Joe

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[Miguel]

Miguel, with your idea you have to balance pumps and without float or level switches it never works out, otherwise yep, it'll work.
).

Dr Joe

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Of course, Dr Joe, that the pumps would need to be balanced...

[unstopable4700]

once again dr. joe lays it out for all to see! i still am thinkin that this is no more tan a huge w/d?

[ciryn]

just to bring this back, he is trying to make a system that would cut out the water changes. Like how the guy with the HUGE de-gasser from Cali or like the auto water (drip system), but this idea is more of a natural way of doing it. I think it would work. Just gotta see it.

[johnptc]

the only thing i would question is the ability of this system to remove nitrate from a HEAVILY stock tropical tank. they ( b shower) seem great for koi........... however i have opted for a carbon feed anoxic filter designed to remove 1000 grams
of nitrate per 24 hours........currently i feed about 7 pounds of food a day............ what size b shower could handle this load ????


otherwise looking good. see http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/fo...d.php?t=115444



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[spiff]

I actually setup almost this exact thing as a filter using 3 56gallon rubbermaid tubs and a 90gal sump. I keep the bottoms of the tubs nestled into the next container though to minize moisture evaporation, which of course lowers the oxidation of the water. But it still works well. Basically, on the bottom of each tub I have a layer of pillow stuffing, the rest filled with pot scrubbies.

To have this waterfall effect as pictured, though ideal for filtering, would create a massive moisture problem in a house.

For the sump, rather than ruin the perfectly good 90gal acrylic aquarium, I'm using a small kitchen trashcan as the inbound flow...its empty now, but is there in case i ever want to use carbon. Then there is another trashcan just for the pump pickup. The whole rest of the sump is pot scrubbies.

I created this setup to take advantage of the 5ft drop from my tank.

[johnptc]

I actually setup almost this exact thing as a filter using 3 56gallon rubbermaid tubs and a 90gal sump. I keep the bottoms of the tubs nestled into the next container though to minize moisture evaporation, which of course lowers the oxidation of the water. But it still works well. Basically, on the bottom of each tub I have a layer of pillow stuffing, the rest filled with pot scrubbies.

To have this waterfall effect as pictured, though ideal for filtering, would create a massive moisture problem in a house.

For the sump, rather than ruin the perfectly good 90gal acrylic aquarium, I'm using a small kitchen trashcan as the inbound flow...its empty now, but is there in case i ever want to use carbon. Then there is another trashcan just for the pump pickup. The whole rest of the sump is pot scrubbies.

I created this setup to take advantage of the 5ft drop from my tank.

does this system remove nitrates ???

[spiff]

No, because I'm not incorporating the plant setup on the sump like on the original poster suggested.
I'm going with ease of maintenance and cost of operation in mind. Running high intensity lighting just to filter nitrates not worth it IMO.

I have an overflow on the sump with a drip system in place... combined with a massively under stocked tank, I rarely have a concern.

[kumdoalan]

The biggest problem I see in many of our aquarium and or pond filters is that many times the footprint of them is too big.

While a nice big tank to show off our fish is nice, the design of some filters with their sumps means that you have to have as much room to position the tank's filter as you did for the tank itself.
When I was working on building an indoor koi pond I was shown photos and videos of other guys who have very nice filter systems that keep their indoor ponds looking clean and fresh.
The trouble is that I dont have a spare room in my house to set aside for a water filter.
Things like these taller filter towers take up a lot of space, make a lot of noise, and put a lot of water on the floor or in the air while they are working.

If I were to design a new type of "ultimate filtration system", it would be a small filter.
Something able to be always hidden from view, yet not so small it becomes hard to work with for people will old eyes and hands.
The "ultimate filtration system' would return water to a state of pureness that would not need any more attention.
The "ultimate filtration system' would clean itself, would know when to clean itself.
It would not make noise, nor smell, it would not get in the way from seeing the fish.

The "ultimate filtration system' would be hidden from view, so it would not have the viewable plastic pipes and overflow boxes that are seen.

Oh, and another thing I would think should be in an "ultimate filtration system' is that the filter is part of the Aquarium and not a set aside box under it or becide it. It would be a basic part of the fish tank thats not going to be needing to be 'connected" to it.