Sulfur Denitrator Technical Thread

cvermeulen

Jack Dempsey
MFK Member
Jun 4, 2007
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Los Osos, CA
OK, this got started in another thread, here:

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136329

and kinda hijacked the originators post before petering out. I'd like to re-open the discussion, because there are some unanswered questions. A decent summary of the technology can be found here:

http://mars.reefkeepers.net/USHomePage/USArticles/SulphurDenitrator.htm

I'm making my 200gal tank the guinea pig, and I plan to build one of these lovelies with some 6" ABS drainage pipe, a little powerhead, some sulfur pellets, and some crushed oyster shell.

Now, the chemical details are a bit hazy, but I'm not super interested in further clarifying them, I'm mostly just trying to figure out the most effective, maintenance friendly way to do this, and hopefully be able to share with all you guys. Small sulfur denitrators go for around $500, and as far as I can tell, all you get is some sulfur, a pipe, and a pump.

There are two schools of thought on the general application here, and I'm stuck between them.

1) Make two reactors, one with sulfur pellets for the autotrophic bacteria to do their thing, reducing nitrates to nitrogen gas, and sulfates, along with some CO2, and H+ Ions, making an acidic solution leaving reactor 1. Then, run through a second reactor filled with calcium Carbonate (crushed coral or oyster shells) to bring the pH back up, and precipitate out some of the dissolved sulfates. This is the type of system typical of the aquarium denitrators. The advantage of this system is that you can maintain the reactors separately, topping up or completely cleaning out the CaCO3 reactor without touching the sulfur reactor. This is also a nice system, because if your nitrate reactor spits out any NitrIte in the effluent (nitrate that it never really finished processing) it gets run through your crushed limestone, where presumably some nitrifying bacteria exist... so it gets turned back to nitrate before re-entering the fish habitat.

2) Make a single reactor, Sulfur pellets mixed with a source of CaCO3, like limestone, marble chips, crushed coral, crushed oyster, etc. This is widely used in large scale wastewater treatment, and is known as the SLAD (Sulfur Limestone Autotrophic Denitrification) Process. This is nice and neat, with only one reactor. It also has the advantage that as the Nitrate is consumed, and acid is produced, the CaCO3 is dissolved, keeping the pH up, and lots of available alkalinity for more nitrate reduction. The disadvantage is that if you put too much or too little CaCO3 in the reactor, and it gets used up faster or slower than the sulfur, you have to take the whole thing out, dump it out, wash it, sort it, remix it, and put it all back together for your semiannual maintenance.

I have more to write on this, but that's enough for one post. Let the discussion begin :p
 

cvermeulen

Jack Dempsey
MFK Member
Jun 4, 2007
1,876
3
36
Los Osos, CA
There are also lots of technical discussions on wastewater treatment that suggest the SLAD process works significantly better or worse, depending on what kind of CaCO3 source you use... this leads me to believe that the readily available alkalinity in the same reactor as the sulfur plays a big part in the efficiency of the reactor. The aside to this, is that wastewater treatment is typically dealing with very large nitrate concentrations, whereas in a denitrified aquarium, it should never be dealing with more than 10ppm. Food for thought...
 

johnptc

Feeder Fish
Apr 6, 2005
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you are not limited to caco3

see:

Based on this equation, for each gram of NO3-N removed approximately 0.64 g cells and 2.5 g of SO42- are generated the following buffering capacity will be consumed.
5.5 grams of alkalinity as calcium carbonate (as CaCO3) is consumed,
or
7.5 grams of alkalinity as sodium bicarbonate NaHCO3) is consumed,
or
2.52 grams of sodium hydroxide,
or
1.89 g of MagpHlow ( magnesium oxide) media
It is therefore important to sufficient buffering in the system, and a 50:50 ration of DFM and MagPhlow works well for the application
 

cvermeulen

Jack Dempsey
MFK Member
Jun 4, 2007
1,876
3
36
Los Osos, CA
johnptc;1728363; said:
you are not limited to caco3

see:

Based on this equation, for each gram of NO3-N removed approximately 0.64 g cells and 2.5 g of SO42- are generated the following buffering capacity will be consumed.
5.5 grams of alkalinity as calcium carbonate (as CaCO3) is consumed,
or
7.5 grams of alkalinity as sodium bicarbonate NaHCO3) is consumed,
or
2.52 grams of sodium hydroxide,
or
1.89 g of MagpHlow ( magnesium oxide) media
It is therefore important to sufficient buffering in the system, and a 50:50 ration of DFM and MagPhlow works well for the application
Thanks john for clarifying. I had actually read that information (sales pitch for magphlow, right?) I had drawn the CaCO3 conclusion mainly because it's cheap and readily available. The Magphlow stuff looks good, but I wonder if 1.89g of magphlow costs less than 5.5 grams of CaCO3? (drydenaqua lists magphlow at 45 pounds (UK) for a 25kg bag, so about $2/lb) Sodium Hydroxide would also require some kind of control system, because it'll jack your PH up to like 14 if you just dump a bunch in a reactor.

Aside: drydenaqua.com is a wicked website for monster sized fishkeeping equipment. I mean really monster.
 

ar0wan

Epistemologist
MFK Member
May 4, 2007
1,288
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Austin, Tx
ZOMG this is why I'm on this site.

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

BTW John my denitrator shut down finally.. It happened suspiciously close to an increase in the effluent which may have introduced too much O2, but I slowed it back down and am about a week away from injecting carbon again as a food source. :(
 

johnptc

Feeder Fish
Apr 6, 2005
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ar0wan;1729293; said:
ZOMG this is why I'm on this site.

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

BTW John my denitrator shut down finally.. It happened suspiciously close to an increase in the effluent which may have introduced too much O2, but I slowed it back down and am about a week away from injecting carbon again as a food source. :(

:(:(:(:(


our monster is running and is stable for now.........

it holding the tank at 16ppm..........the best i got with 20% Daily water change was around 30 ppm.:)


i will try tuning it more but i want another month or so to watch it and watch for bio build in the reactor.
 

cvermeulen

Jack Dempsey
MFK Member
Jun 4, 2007
1,876
3
36
Los Osos, CA

T1KARMANN

Giant Snakehead
MFK Member
Sep 19, 2005
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i think the salt and PH must have some efect on the sulpr in the nitrate reactor

as i ran a suhran unit and it was crap but when i ask the SW guys they say its a good unit :confused:
 
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