Mouthbrooders for the novice African cichlid keeper?

angeltc

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My brother (rainbowfishpc) and I just got a 90 gallon for Christmas. Its going to be an African Rift Lake tank (obviously). It will probably be a mixed lake tank. One of the things that attracted me to African cichlids was the fact that many of them are mouthbrooders. Are there any mouthbrooders that are easy to breed and will breed in a mixed tank setup? I've heard that yellow labs are easy to breed mouthbrooders, but will they breed in a mixed tank setup? Are there any others?
 

angeltc

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Thanks! Any others?

Another thing: how to sex them, how to get them to breed, and raise the young.
 

JamesRiggs

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I am not sure that I would mix lakes. I am not saying that it can't be done, just saying that I wouldn't do it. Malawi cichlids are going to be easier to breed and sex. The problem with most of your Tangs that are easy to breed is the fact that when they pair they will become overly aggressive. Some tangs that are easy to breed but are not mouthbrooders are going to be julies and brichardi. You may have a problem with the Tangs killing off the mouthbrooders though. If you want a fascinating Tanganyika fish that would be a good starter I would pick up some Neothauma shells and some multifaciatus. They will breed without any help....kinda like rabbits. Most of your Tanganyika mouthbrooders are more difficult to keep. Tropheus, to me are the most interesting mouthbrooder you can keep but they can be troublesome. They must be kept in larger groups, and water quality and diet are key because they are prone to bloat.
 

angeltc

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Okay so it sounds like mixing lakes is out of the question if I want to breed. . .

Are there any Tangyanikan mouthbrooders that are easy to keep/breed, yet won't get killed by the others.
 

JamesRiggs

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Cyprichromis species are mouthbrooders and can be kept more easily than most of the other mouthbrooders. With that being said cyps are sensitive to water as well. Other Tanganyikan mouthbrooders consist of: Tropheus, Frontosa, Featherfins, Gobies, Petros, and most sand-sifters(Enantiopus, Melanogenys) are mouth brooders. Most of the other Tangs are substrate spawners and cave spawners. Gobies can be easily kept if they are kept in a slightly large group(Very aggressive). Most of the others would be considered advanced hobbyist fish. For a novice I would not stray from malawi because you will find that they are more hardy fish. I would hate to see you jump in to Tanganyikan mouthbrooders and be disappointed.

edit: FWIW I feel that Malawi in some cases are prettier to look at, but the Tanganyikan fish are far more sophisticated.
 

angeltc

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JamesRiggs;2573572; said:
Cyprichromis species are mouthbrooders and can be kept more easily than most of the other mouthbrooders. With that being said cyps are sensitive to water as well. Other Tanganyikan mouthbrooders consist of: Tropheus, Frontosa, Featherfins, Gobies, Petros, and most sand-sifters(Enantiopus, Melanogenys) are mouth brooders. Most of the other Tangs are substrate spawners and cave spawners. Gobies can be easily kept if they are kept in a slightly large group(Very aggressive). Most of the others would be considered advanced hobbyist fish. For a novice I would not stray from malawi because you will find that they are more hardy fish. I would hate to see you jump in to Tanganyikan mouthbrooders and be disappointed.

edit: FWIW I feel that Malawi in some cases are prettier to look at, but the Tanganyikan fish are far more sophisticated.
When you say not to stray form malawi, do you mean malawi in general or malawi mouthbrooders. In regard to the gobies, how many is a large group?
 

random fish guy

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I have a 120gal. mixed and I am always finding babies in the nooks and crannies, usually not too many at a time, because most of them become snacks before I even notice them.
 

JamesRiggs

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angeltc;2574217; said:
When you say not to stray form malawi, do you mean malawi in general or malawi mouthbrooders. In regard to the gobies, how many is a large group?
Well, Malawi fish, in general are easier to keep because they are more hardy. I have a group of 16 Kigoma Red Gobies. I wouldnt keep them in groups of less than 10. The principle I normally follow on the aggressive Tanganyikan mouthbrooders is keeping them in large groups, that way the aggression is spread out evenly. My Tropheus Kiriza are in a group of 40, I have 25 Tropheus Moliro, 20 Tropheus Duboisi. I have yet to lose a fish because of aggression from another fish. On the other hand, Some Malawi mouthbrooders can be downright nasty. Melanochromis species in general have a very ill temper. If you stick with Malawi you will have more options on what fish you can choose because there are so many mouthbrooders in lake malawi. It is more limited with Tanganyika. Don't think I am trying to steer you away from Tanganyika, because I would love to see more Tang keepers here on MFK. I am just offering you the advice that the Tangs are Generally harder to keep. From my experience most people start on Malawi or Victoria and then move to Tanganyika. I think it is mostly this way because at first glance the fish from Malawi are more eye appealing because of the stunning blues, reds, and yellows...plus you pretty much have to step on them to kill them(so long as you keep good water params). Malawi fish are more forgiving of poor water conditions from not doing water changes.

To sum it all up: A 90 gallon is a good tank to work with! You could do a nice community Malawi tank and have a stunning display. A 90 gallon is a good Tanganyika tank as well. Your options are going to be more limited on what fish from Tanganyika you keep because of the specialized diet some Tanganyika fish have.

I guess I could give you a list and you could give it a look.


Malawi


Mbuna tank (all are mouthbrooders)
Labidochromis caeruleus x4 1M/3F
Cynotilapia afra (Cobue) x4 1M/3F
Iodotropheus sprengerae x4 1M/3F
Labeotropheus fuelleborni (not the marmalade variety) x4 1M/3F
Metriaclima estherae x4 1M/3F
Pseudotropheus sp. "Acei" x4 1M/3F

Peacock/Hap tank (all are mouthbrooders)

Sciaenochromis fryeri X4 1M/3F
Placidochromis sp. "Phenochilus Tanzania" X4 1M/3F
Aulonocara stuartgranti (Chiwindi) X4 1M/3F
Aulonocara stuartgranti (Ngara) X4 1M/3F

I cut down on the number of Haps/Peacocks becuase of the sheer size they reach. Even with the number that I have it still may be to many. I also like to crowd mbuna because it cuts aggression. They tank design would be different as well, the mbuna tank would need extensive rock work and TONS of places for the fish to hide while the Hap/Peacock tank would need much less rockwork so the fish have room to swim in the open water.

Here are some examples of my tanks

good mbuna tank




Good Hap Tank



You get then general layout I assume.


Tanganyika is different, If you want mouthbrooders then you cannot beat Tropheus. You would need to do a large group of tropheus of your choosing (there are many variants) then add some fish to compliment them(if you want to, I do species only). A good design would be 20 or so Tropheus, with a group of 5 or so Petrochromis consisting of 1M/4F. To compliment these fish I would pick up 20-25 Neothauma Shells and get 10 Lamprologus multifasciatus.


Hope this helps some.
 

mr_cool_guy

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random fish guy;2574265; said:
I have a 120gal. mixed and I am always finding babies in the nooks and crannies, usually not too many at a time, because most of them become snacks before I even notice them.
same here, i have mbunas and i always see a couple fry when i move some of the rockwork.
 
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