saltwater newbie attempting a 55 gallon reef

BTB0923

Candiru
MFK Member
May 2, 2008
680
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Morrisville, North Carolina
I'm planning to slowly transition my 55 gallon tank into a reef tank and I could really use some advice from any experienced reefers out there who would like to help. Here is where I'm at...

I've got my 55 gallon setup with some sand that was originally in an established saltwater tank. I'm not sure that the sand qualifies as "live" because it had been dry for a looooong time. I've got the sand in the tank and my water has been treated with prime and brought to the proper salinity using Instant Ocean salt. The filtration I have running is a Penguin 350 Biowheel HOB filter (rated for up to 75 gallon tank). Here are some question that have already arisen....

#1- My bio-wheels are seeded with bacteria from my freshwater 180 gallon. If I use these freshwater bio-wheels in my filter will they properly start the cycle in my saltwater tank??

#2- For the time being, I have regular fluorescent lighting that is not strong enough to grow coral. Will live rock still flourish and properly cycle under this lighting if I add it to the tank now before getting stronger lights??

#3- I have ammonia to cycle the tank. Should I cycle the tank before adding the live rock, or is having liverock in the tank during cycling part of the process??

#4- If I have a LOT of live rock in the tank, is there really a need for a sump...or will the rock, the HOB filter, and a protein skimmer be enough to keep a reef tank going for good?

#5- My tapwater has no nitrates and a phosphate reading of 1.0 ppm. Will this water always be safe for a reef tank without using an RO unit or is the phosphate reading too high?? Is it even safe for just a FOWLR tank??

I know there is a lot to learn when it comes to maintaining a reef tank, which is why the first three of these questions are really just pertaining to starting off with just a FOWLR tank only which will eventually be converted to reef.

Sorry for the long read and thanks in advance!
 

Otto_VonBacon

Jack Dempsey
MFK Member
Nov 16, 2008
1,354
1
36
31
Montgomery TEXAS
BTB0923;3271857; said:
#1- My bio-wheels are seeded with bacteria from my freshwater 180 gallon. If I use these freshwater bio-wheels in my filter will they properly start the cycle in my saltwater tank??
I would get a new biowheel just so you start out all new bacteria.
#2- For the time being, I have regular fluorescent lighting that is not strong enough to grow coral. Will live rock still flourish and properly cycle under this lighting if I add it to the tank now before getting stronger lights??
that will be fine, just don't put hard corals under it.
#3- I have ammonia to cycle the tank. Should I cycle the tank before adding the live rock, or is having liverock in the tank during cycling part of the process??
add the saltwater with the rocks. The live rock will start the cycle on its own as the organisms naturally die off. from there its a normal cycle.

#4- If I have a LOT of live rock in the tank, is there really a need for a sump...or will the rock, the HOB filter, and a protein skimmer be enough to keep a reef tank going for good?
The more live rock the better, i have seen a tank with no filters at all just with a skimmer and rocks. Sumps and filters are nice to have, though you don't need a HOB if you have a sump. Sumps provide mechanical (sponges,pads) and biological filtration with the bio balls, they also provide a place for heaters and protein skimmers, aswell as increasing the amount of water in the system.

#5- My tapwater has no nitrates and a phosphate reading of 1.0 ppm. Will this water always be safe for a reef tank without using an RO unit or is the phosphate reading too high?? Is it even safe for just a FOWLR tank??
RO systems are always a good investment, but for now just keep an eye on your phosphates and you should be alright.
I know there is a lot to learn when it comes to maintaining a reef tank, which is why the first three of these questions are really just pertaining to starting off with just a FOWLR tank only which will eventually be converted to reef.

Saltwater tanks are great, may be intidating at first but you'll learn.


As i always say, Welcome to Marine fish keeping. :headbang2
 

mr.reef24

Fire Eel
MFK Member
Apr 21, 2009
4,456
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68
USA
s704.photobucket.com
#1- My bio-wheels are seeded with bacteria from my freshwater 180 gallon. If I use these freshwater bio-wheels in my filter will they properly start the cycle in my saltwater tank??
I would get new bio-wheels and not use any FW bacteria

#2- For the time being, I have regular fluorescent lighting that is not strong enough to grow coral. Will live rock still flourish and properly cycle under this lighting if I add it to the tank now before getting stronger lights??
Yes, live rock really doesn't have a lighting requirement

#3- I have ammonia to cycle the tank. Should I cycle the tank before adding the live rock, or is having liverock in the tank during cycling part of the process??
When you add the live rock that'll be the cycling process there no need for extra ammonia there will be enough from the die off of the Live rock from transport.

#4- If I have a LOT of live rock in the tank, is there really a need for a sump...or will the rock, the HOB filter, and a protein skimmer be enough to keep a reef tank going for good?
I would do a Refigium if you plan on doing a reef so you can get all the zooplankton breeding like crazy in there. If you need more information on this Private Message me.

#5- My tapwater has no nitrates and a phosphate reading of 1.0 ppm. Will this water always be safe for a reef tank without using an RO unit or is the phosphate reading too high?? Is it even safe for just a FOWLR tank??
My thought's about tapwater is not to use unless you can't spring finacially at the time for a good RO/DI unit. Well worth the investment.

Hope this sprang some light for you if you need anything else Private Message me anytime.

mr.reef24
 

BTB0923

Candiru
MFK Member
May 2, 2008
680
0
46
Morrisville, North Carolina
Wow, let me start off with....the quick and extremely thorough and knowledgeable responses I got with this thread is really re-enforcing my theory that SW is a very rewarding endeavor. Thanks! I have "a few" questions LOL

Otto_VonBacon;3271916; said:
Originally Posted by BTB0923
#1- My bio-wheels are seeded with bacteria from my freshwater 180 gallon. If I use these freshwater bio-wheels in my filter will they properly start the cycle in my saltwater tank??
I would get a new biowheel just so you start out all new bacteria.


I already put my FW bio-wheel on the HOB, does that mean I have to start over or will I be OK?

#2- For the time being, I have regular fluorescent lighting that is not strong enough to grow coral. Will live rock still flourish and properly cycle under this lighting if I add it to the tank now before getting stronger lights??
that will be fine, just don't put hard corals under it.


wonderful news

#3- I have ammonia to cycle the tank. Should I cycle the tank before adding the live rock, or is having liverock in the tank during cycling part of the process??

add the saltwater with the rocks. The live rock will start the cycle on its own as the organisms naturally die off. from there its a normal cycle.

tpp late, the SW is already mixed and in the tank...is that going to be bad for the newly introduced Live Rock??

#4- If I have a LOT of live rock in the tank, is there really a need for a sump...or will the rock, the HOB filter, and a protein skimmer be enough to keep a reef tank going for good?


The more live rock the better, i have seen a tank with no filters at all just with a skimmer and rocks. Sumps and filters are nice to have, though you don't need a HOB if you have a sump. Sumps provide mechanical (sponges,pads) and biological filtration with the bio balls, they also provide a place for heaters and protein skimmers, aswell as increasing the amount of water in the system.


For a newbie, I'm sure I'll need something. Just trying to get an idea of what is the cheapest failsafe method. You say a sump with no HOB is ok but is an HOB with no sump OK? Also, I heard Bio-balls create extra nitrates in SW tanks, is this dependant on certain factors?

#5- My tapwater has no nitrates and a phosphate reading of 1.0 ppm. Will this water always be safe for a reef tank without using an RO unit or is the phosphate reading too high?? Is it even safe for just a FOWLR tank??
RO systems are always a good investment, but for now just keep an eye on your phosphates and you should be alright.


Thanks, I'm assuming you mean for a FOWLR tank. Will my water be good for corals when I get there though?

I know there is a lot to learn when it comes to maintaining a reef tank, which is why the first three of these questions are really just pertaining to starting off with just a FOWLR tank only which will eventually be converted to reef.

Saltwater tanks are great, may be intidating at first but you'll learn

As i always say, Welcome to Marine fish keeping. :headbang2
THANKS! I feel welcome



mr.reef24;3271983; said:
#1- My bio-wheels are seeded with bacteria from my freshwater 180 gallon. If I use these freshwater bio-wheels in my filter will they properly start the cycle in my saltwater tank??
I would get new bio-wheels and not use any FW bacteria

already added the FW bacteria to the environment..but it hasn't cycled yet. Have I already caused a problem?

#2- For the time being, I have regular fluorescent lighting that is not strong enough to grow coral. Will live rock still flourish and properly cycle under this lighting if I add it to the tank now before getting stronger lights??
Yes, live rock really doesn't have a lighting requirement

Good to know, I'm going to go ahead and have some tonga liverock delivered

#3- I have ammonia to cycle the tank. Should I cycle the tank before adding the live rock, or is having liverock in the tank during cycling part of the process??
When you add the live rock that'll be the cycling process there no need for extra ammonia there will be enough from the die off of the Live rock from transport.

It seems a shame to kill the life on the live rock when cycling. May it be better to cycle with ammonia first and then add the live rock after... so that the life on the liverock is maintained before adding it? (gotta feel like a newb asking questions like that lol)

#4- If I have a LOT of live rock in the tank, is there really a need for a sump...or will the rock, the HOB filter, and a protein skimmer be enough to keep a reef tank going for good?
I would do a Refigium if you plan on doing a reef so you can get all the zooplankton breeding like crazy in there. If you need more information on this Private Message me.

I have a 10 gallon tank I was contemplating using as a sump...could I use that as just a refugium and get away with having no sump? I would have the HOB I described earler, a protien skimmer, and lots of live rock in the tank? How exactly does a refugium work? Does it need a high water flow rate, or can I get away with a less powerful pump?

#5- My tapwater has no nitrates and a phosphate reading of 1.0 ppm. Will this water always be safe for a reef tank without using an RO unit or is the phosphate reading too high?? Is it even safe for just a FOWLR tank??
My thought's about tapwater is not to use unless you can't spring finacially at the time for a good RO/DI unit. Well worth the investment.

I believe that the only real issue I will have with my tapwater is the phosphate level. Having no experience with SW I just don't know what a "tolerable" level would be. Basing it on the SW experience you obviously have, is 1.0 a questionable, risky, or just plain "not gonna work" level?

Hope this sprang some light for you if you need anything else Private Message me anytime. Thanks for the offer to PM. I guarantee you I will take you up on that VERY soon. Its just easier to post when you have a million questions to ask LOL

Definitely did. I have to say I was incredibly impressed with the responses I got after starting this thread in the SW section of a mainly FW site. Thanks again guys. I am planning to pretty much go all out with this reef tank so the help is truly appreciated.

mr.reef24
 

Otto_VonBacon

Jack Dempsey
MFK Member
Nov 16, 2008
1,354
1
36
31
Montgomery TEXAS
BTB0923;3271857; said:
#1- My bio-wheels are seeded with bacteria from my freshwater 180 gallon. If I use these freshwater bio-wheels in my filter will they properly start the cycle in my saltwater tank??
It would be best for a fresh wheel, nothings harmed, but it will give the saltwater bacteria a fresh place to culture.

#2- For the time being, I have regular fluorescent lighting that is not strong enough to grow coral. Will live rock still flourish and properly cycle under this lighting if I add it to the tank now before getting stronger lights??
check!
#3- I have ammonia to cycle the tank. Should I cycle the tank before adding the live rock, or is having liverock in the tank during cycling part of the process??
Live rock die off is a natural process and is pretty much necessary. Good to hear the waters already mixed, just throw in the rocks and let them cycle.
#4- If I have a LOT of live rock in the tank, is there really a need for a sump...or will the rock, the HOB filter, and a protein skimmer be enough to keep a reef tank going for good?
not sure how to have just a refugium, i know you can have a small one in a sump. And yes you can have a HOB with no sump, but a sump/or fuge is better for larger tanks in the end.
#5- My tapwater has no nitrates and a phosphate reading of 1.0 ppm. Will this water always be safe for a reef tank without using an RO unit or is the phosphate reading too high?? Is it even safe for just a FOWLR tank??
I have a 90 gallon reef with tap water yours should be fine for now. but RO is always a good investment for anyone.
I know there is a lot to learn when it comes to maintaining a reef tank, which is why the first three of these questions are really just pertaining to starting off with just a FOWLR tank only which will eventually be converted to reef.

Sorry for the long read and thanks in advance!
BTB0923;3272096; said:
Wow, let me start off with....the quick and extremely thorough and knowledgeable responses I got with this thread is really re-enforcing my theory that SW is a very rewarding endeavor. Thanks! I have "a few" questions LOL

[/I]
Hope that helps, have to go for now.

Heres a thing on how to cure/acclimate the rock: http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=16+2249&aid=2833

Depending on what kind of rock you have it may already be cured and ready to go right into the tank, otherwise if it's uncured you might get unwanted hitch hikers.


 

BTB0923

Candiru
MFK Member
May 2, 2008
680
0
46
Morrisville, North Carolina
I feel much more comfortable moving forward with all that information, thanks guys. My next step will be to simply add some liverock since that will start the cycling process in my tank. I understand that the more liverock the better, so I am going to get a lot. But out of curiosity, what would be the minimum amount (in pounds) that I could add to get the tank cycled?? What is the best kind of liverock to buy??

I've decided that I will probably set up a 20 gallon sump/refugium after I have had the tank cycled and established with a few small fish in it for a while. Is it ok to add the sump later when the tank goes from FOWLR to reef, or is this a bad idea??

I have a pic of my tank so far, but I can't upload pics while the MFK servers are being upgraded...I'll have to post it later.
 

mr.reef24

Fire Eel
MFK Member
Apr 21, 2009
4,456
7
68
USA
s704.photobucket.com
Originally Posted by mr.reef24
#1- My bio-wheels are seeded with bacteria from my freshwater 180 gallon. If I use these freshwater bio-wheels in my filter will they properly start the cycle in my saltwater tank??
I would get new bio-wheels and not use any FW bacteria

already added the FW bacteria to the environment..but it hasn't cycled yet. Have I already caused a problem?

No but I would get the FW bacteria out asap.


#2- For the time being, I have regular fluorescent lighting that is not strong enough to grow coral. Will live rock still flourish and properly cycle under this lighting if I add it to the tank now before getting stronger lights??
Yes, live rock really doesn't have a lighting requirement

Good to know, I'm going to go ahead and have some tonga liverock delivered

I would at least get about 60 lbs of live rock.


#3- I have ammonia to cycle the tank. Should I cycle the tank before adding the live rock, or is having liverock in the tank during cycling part of the process??
When you add the live rock that'll be the cycling process there no need for extra ammonia there will be enough from the die off of the Live rock from transport.

It seems a shame to kill the life on the live rock when cycling. May it be better to cycle with ammonia first and then add the live rock after... so that the life on the liverock is maintained before adding it? (gotta feel like a newb asking questions like that lol)

The only reason why some not all the organism's die on live rock a small amount only is due to shipment and transport that is what cause's the cycle from the spike of ammonia from the die off from transport not from cycling the tank.

#4- If I have a LOT of live rock in the tank, is there really a need for a sump...or will the rock, the HOB filter, and a protein skimmer be enough to keep a reef tank going for good?
I would do a Refigium if you plan on doing a reef so you can get all the zooplankton breeding like crazy in there. If you need more information on this Private Message me.

I have a 10 gallon tank I was contemplating using as a sump...could I use that as just a refugium and get away with having no sump? I would have the HOB I described earler, a protien skimmer, and lots of live rock in the tank? How exactly does a refugium work? Does it need a high water flow rate, or can I get away with a less powerful pump?

A refugium work's by using some sand or a Fuge substrate like miracle mud then i recommend in your case like 5 pound's of live rock rubble and some sort of macro algae and a basic light nothing fancy. Don't put anything in the fuge along the line's of crab's, fish, or snail's the Fuge is designed to be a constant breeding ground for your zooplankton where it will be continuously added to the main tank for an additional food supply. I recommend a slow water flow for the fuge and I would have the protein skimmer in the chamber where the water enters the Fuge.

#5- My tapwater has no nitrates and a phosphate reading of 1.0 ppm. Will this water always be safe for a reef tank without using an RO unit or is the phosphate reading too high?? Is it even safe for just a FOWLR tank??
My thought's about tapwater is not to use unless you can't spring finacially at the time for a good RO/DI unit. Well worth the investment.

I believe that the only real issue I will have with my tapwater is the phosphate level. Having no experience with SW I just don't know what a "tolerable" level would be. Basing it on the SW experience you obviously have, is 1.0 a questionable, risky, or just plain "not gonna work" level?

You don't want any phophate's at all they will cause hair algae and other diatom algae's this all can be avoided with a RO/DI unit

Hope this sprang some light for you if you need anything else Private Message me anytime. Thanks for the offer to PM. I guarantee you I will take you up on that VERY soon. Its just easier to post when you have a million questions to ask LOL

Definitely did. I have to say I was incredibly impressed with the responses I got after starting this thread in the SW section of a mainly FW site. Thanks again guys. I am planning to pretty much go all out with this reef tank so the help is truly appreciated.

I am alway's here to help anytime you need something give me a yell.

mr.reef24
 

af0929

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Dec 24, 2008
33
0
0
Las Vegas
Ive only been doing salt for about a year now and im getting ready to set up my third sw tank. Anyway that being said i have learned a big lesson about HOB filters...DONT....alot of folks dont like canisters but i am a huge fan of them...i would highly suggest a sump for the reef though. but under no circumstances would i suggest a HOB filter for a sw set up...i learned this lesson personally...

In addition a good rule for sw filtration is to always have double the filtration power needed. in other words for your 55g you need a filter that can handle 110g. Yea the live rock will do most of the filtering but for the amount of money and time that goes into building and maintaining a reef tank it would be a good idea.

finnally...I had heard that its not always a good idea to use a skimmer in a reef bc they remove the food the coral needs to survive....also i was told not to use a skimmer in a tank that is not very well established (6 months or so) bc it will remove the food the bacteria needs to build up...anyone have any thoughts on that?
 

bromie88

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Feb 19, 2008
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Liverpool, England
all the freshwater bacteria will die off. especially if you just went from having a FW setup and basically adding salt to 1.022+ sg, so the tank will need to cycle again, the good news is that a marine cycle can be as quick as 10 days :)

id go and get a load of live rock you will want about 1 kg for every gallon. this is the most expensive part of setting up a reef tank, but it does take care of most of your filtration. so it is a good idea to get some, even though you can have a marine tank without it.

you want at least 10x turnover in a marine aquarium. even more in a reef. on my 100ltr reef i have a fluval 405 (1000 LPH) 2 powerheads (250 and 450 LPH) and now a skimmer too rated for a 120ltr tank (up to 750 LPH).

so without the skimmer i have 17x turnover per hour. 24.5x if you include the skimmer.

the less dead spots the better. nothing will sit in the tank and rot, this will help keep your water in good condition.

so set your tank up and fill with water (1/2 to 3/4 full) so when your rock comes it can go straight in. the longer it is out of water the more bacteria will die off. remember your cycle starts when the rock is in.

id google "fishless cycle for marine aquariums" for some good info. id also look at the 'coral 101's' in the corals and inverts for info on what you can keep in a reef tank. id also google 'drip aclimatisation', because you'll need to know how to get stuff in there when its fully cycled.

if your not sure on something feel free to ask. marines can be daunting at first, and can be a lot to take in. but remember theres no such thing as a stupid question here on MFK. mistakes can be expensive in this part of the hobby.
 
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