Is there a chemist in the house?

kdrun76

Piranha
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Mar 4, 2009
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I have some really strange water chemistry going on. I can't explain it, I can't understand it and I would love a few other brains trying to figure it out.

All tanks are well established (the newest one was set up last June) get 50% or more weekly water changes and weekly water chemistry monitoring... I have no sick fish and no signs of problems in any tanks, nor have I had any sick fish or problems. This is NOT a new trend but a fairly well established one. It did however take on a new twist this week.

Four tanks that chemically are in pairs. I cannot figure out what it is that pairs them.

The really low KH, GH and pH have been well noted in the two tanks. They have different substrates, one has drift wood, one does not. They have different occupants, different filters, and different water sources. The guppy tank gets water out of my dehumidifier (distilled) and the other three tanks get dechlorinated tap water. All 4 tanks are planted.

Last week I changed the diet of the pacus to include a LOT more veggies. Carrot bits and potato pieces started to rain down... then I saw broccoli and zucchini stuck in the corners and then I got the white cloud that says "YOU HAVE AMMONIA!" Ahhh, what did I do?!?! Crap crap crap... water change, water change, water change, water change.......


I did 5 days in a row 50% water changes on that beast! Water cleared... ammonia test kit ran out....

Tank sits for 3 days, 50% change, 2 days later (today) with a new ammonia kit I did a full chemistry work up on all tanks....



______________125-tilapia_____ 70 goldfish _____210 pacu ____29 guppy
pH ______________7.6 __________ 7.6___________ <6.0 _______<6.0
KH ____________4 drops _______ 4 drops _________<1 _________<1
GH ____________5 drops ________5 drops _________1 drop ______1 drop
ammonia _________ 0 _____________0 _____________0.5 _______2.0!!!!!!!
nitrite ____________0 _____________0 _____________0 __________0
nitrate __________<10 ____________<5 ___________10-20 ______<10
drift wood ________yes ____________no ___________yes _________no
substrate _Agway pea gravel ___fishtank gravel __ fishtank gravel _ sand
Bio load _____ heavy/normal _____VERY low_______ HEAVY ______ normal

I wouldn't normally do an ammonia or nitrite test on 3 year old tanks, but with the mess I caused with veggies I figured, why not.

I am going to go out on a limb here and say there is NOT ammonia in the guppy tank. They are breeding at a furious rate, there are no signs of troubles and I only tested the tank because of the pacu situation. Ok, so why is the test positive? To make it worse, I tested it after the 50% change was done with distilled water. There are no common sump tanks, no common filtration, no water mixing anywhere. One tank is even in a different room?!?

The ammonia test kit is an API liquid reagent kit, just bought today, and shaken like crazy before use.

I am open to ideas here. I cannot explain why 2 tanks have such low KH, GH, and pH and test positive for ammonia, while 2 tanks are perfectly normal.
 

kdrun76

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Mar 4, 2009
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Ok, my table didn't load, give me a min to fix that.

I fixed the table by using underscores. Looks funny, but its readable. Now I can't figure out how to delete this post....
 

12 Volt Man

Potamotrygon
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May 24, 2007
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looks to me like you have classic 'old tank syndrome' in the guppy tank and pacu tank.

ammonia from excess wastes combined with a low pH (<6) is a common indicator.

given that the pH is low is the reason why the ammonia did not harm the fish. the lower the pH is, the more of it exists in its ammonium form which is not toxic to fish.

some extra water changes and watching the feeding (not too much!) should clear both these tanks up no problems..
 

the_deeb

Blue Tier VIP
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Apr 22, 2006
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The ability of nitrifying bacteria to convert ammonia to nitritire to nitrate is also pH dependent, and at low pH their metabolism is significantly impaired. Not only does this reduced metabolism reduce the efficiency of nitrification, it also means that the bacterial population will not grow as fast in response to increased ammonia load (as happened following your heavy feeding).

As 12 volt man pointed out above, the low pH will also reduce ammonia toxicity, which may be why your fish are behaving normally.

I had a similar problem in one of my old, established tanks where I started seeing periodic ammonia spikes after feedings. I solved it by adding crushed coral to my filters. Theis helped me buffer my water and brought up the pH from 6 to around 7.8, after which I no longer had any detectable ammonia.
 

kdrun76

Piranha
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Mar 4, 2009
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The guppy tank has only been set up since April, and gets 50% weekly changes.
Old tank syndrome brings sky high GH, and nitrates, I have neither.


Extra water changes? I have changed 50-60% of the water in the 210gallon pacu tank 7 times in the last 10 days?!?! How much more water should I change?
 

kdrun76

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Mar 4, 2009
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the_deeb;3655631; said:
The ability of nitrifying bacteria to convert ammonia to nitritire to nitrate is also pH dependent, and at low pH their metabolism is significantly impaired. Not only does this reduced metabolism reduce the efficiency of nitrification, it also means that the bacterial population will not grow as fast in response to increased ammonia load (as happened following your heavy feeding).
This is an interesting thought. The pH has been this low since at least early September. I can't imagine I have had ammonia that long.
 

kdrun76

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bump
 

Cecropia

Candiru
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Jan 17, 2008
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Low KH from the tap letting the ph swing wildly? I added sodium bicarbonate to my media to solve the issue
 

kdrun76

Piranha
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Mar 4, 2009
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Cecropia;3656169; said:
Low KH from the tap letting the ph swing wildly? I added sodium bicarbonate to my media to solve the issue

But why in 2 tanks and not in all tanks?
 
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