HLLE...

MonsterMinis

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Apr 28, 2009
6,048
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More a question for sol, and richard but anyone elses experiances with this woud be much appreciated.. I noticed my LNG's are showing signs of HLLE but my other tanks are not ( ie my FLG, and CBG are all clean) The only difference in these tanks is the mechanical items, ie filters,heater ect. they all eat the same food, are kept in the same water, and get the same water perameter upkeep ( 0,0,40 or under) I'm going to swap out my heater to see if i'm getting stray voltage from there.. but anyother ideas? our water is very hard ect so I'm wondering if this might cause it in the LNGs? but would it then should effect the FLG as well? I'm trying to diagnonse the cause before anything become permanent. I tried takeing pictures but have yet to get any good ones as it's still very early, but it traces up all 3 of their snouts and over their eyes. I've also notices what appears to be some very early signs on the TSN in the tank as well. THe only other difference in the tanks is the cgb,flg runs a sump, and the lng's runs 2 emp 400's for filtration. no water quality issues i've seen ( test it approx bi-weekly)

so far i did a few extra massive water changes, and cleaned up the filtration abit just to make sure everything was running 100% ( flow was abit diminished from build-up on the intake so i cleaned it but otherwise left my media ect alone) The gar and tsn act normal otherwise.

next step is to swap out the heater ( which is in the mail atm)

they get NLS, frozen krill, and goldfish.
 

E_americanus

Penguin Lover
MFK Member
Aug 14, 2004
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primitivefishes.com
Does the LNG eat all those food items, or just one or two types? Unusual that this would be happening if it eats all three. I would get some whole (or headless but otherwise whole) frozen fish and see if that helps. It's often dietary with gars, and that's the best way I have found to cure it (often micronutrients, etc in whole fish that may not be in other items). Keep in mind I'm not counting goldfish as having much nutritional value compared to frozen wild fish in this case. Keep us posted and good luck! If you are
Able to get pics later let us know--
--Solomon


Sent from my iPhone using MonsterAquariaNetwork app
 

MonsterMinis

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Apr 28, 2009
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Thanks Sol, and yes these guys eat anything i feed them thankfully. I just found it odd that they get even more pellets then the big guys do. They have been fat and sassy up unti being moved into the 75 which is why i was thinking stray voltage, and the tsn showing signs and haveing the same diet as well made me wonder. But I do have some frozen smelt i will try, and see what else i might find at the grocery store this week. If i can't find whole fish, what about just getting the heads and feeding them? I will keep this thread updated.

Have you tried useing vitamin drops or I've also heard childrens vitamins can be dissolved and added?
 

Dubeckyj

Candiru
MFK Member
Mar 22, 2011
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Canada
Are you using carbon filtration?

I had the same problem with my gator last year. Diet should've been fine, and no tinkering with different foods seemed to make a difference. While doing some research, I came across an article on HLLE in marine fish linked to carbon. A few weeks after I took out the carbon, the HLLE was healing nicely.

I'll admit it's possible it was diet-based and the carbon thing was just a coincidence, but these are my observations.
 

E_americanus

Penguin Lover
MFK Member
Aug 14, 2004
3,790
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Louisiana
primitivefishes.com
Are you using carbon filtration?

I had the same problem with my gator last year. Diet should've been fine, and no tinkering with different foods seemed to make a difference. While doing some research, I came across an article on HLLE in marine fish linked to carbon. A few weeks after I took out the carbon, the HLLE was healing nicely.

I'll admit it's possible it was diet-based and the carbon thing was just a coincidence, but these are my observations.
i've heard about the carbon issues too (good call mentioning that!), so that's definitely worth a shot if there is carbon being used in this system. i haven't used carbon in any of my tanks for about 10 years--
--solomon
 

MonsterMinis

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Apr 28, 2009
6,048
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Wisconsin
Good point.. and actually one of the reasons I've been against carbon for years ( barring medication removal and occasional "bandage" needs) I actually cut the filter cartirdges for the emps and remove the carbon prior to use.. But thanks for the tip, I will double check them. with how hectic things have been lately its def possible i forgot.
 

tomomothy

Fire Eel
MFK Member
Dec 14, 2009
1,000
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Long Beach, Ca
I agree with the carbon consideration. I dont have the link anymore, but a university (I believe it was florida) did a study on a control group of fish studying HLLE vs diet and carbon. All groups of fish were kept in same lighting, temp and wc conditions with same tank size, population count and same tank size. The control group of fish had no carbon media and a high quality pellet diet, one group of fish had a low quality diet.of cheap flake food. These conditions were also applied to a group of fish with low quality soft carbon media and another with high quality hard carbon (still with me?)

Long story short, the fish tanks with the cheap carbon, all but 1 fish had significant HLLE, the group with the hard carbon had micro HLLE and all groups without carbon had no signs of HLLE at all. Diet did not seam to play a significant role.

These results may vary species to species, and that isnt to say a poor diet cant affect susceptibility, however the carbon theory seems to be becoming more and more legit. I had an oscar with HLLE and it would only go away once I put it into a hospital tank with no carbon. Not knowing anything about carbon, I kept it in my community tank, put the oscar in and it came back. This cycle perpetuated until eventually my oscar died in the hospital tank.

If youve made it through all of that, I suggest removing the carbon and give it a week or two. If that doesnt work, try using this:

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4615+13940&pcatid=13940

Its been used by myself and other members successfully to stop and reverse the damage
 

Dubeckyj

Candiru
MFK Member
Mar 22, 2011
112
2
48
Canada
I dont have the link anymore, but a university (I believe it was florida) did a study on a control group of fish studying HLLE vs diet and carbon.
I need to be less subtle with my hyperlinks.
 

MonsterMinis

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Apr 28, 2009
6,048
9
0
Wisconsin
LOL thanks guys.. and I was able to check.. and I forgot I had the hubby change out the filters and upon further detective work he forgot to rinse them as well as remove the carbon. That was on e crazy month (x-mas,moving,ect...) Hopefully this is the culprit, changed out the heater just to be safe.. did a huge water change,syphoning the sand like crazy and replaced the cartridges... now to give it a few weeks and see if they heal up!
 

Dubeckyj

Candiru
MFK Member
Mar 22, 2011
112
2
48
Canada
LOL thanks guys.. and I was able to check.. and I forgot I had the hubby change out the filters and upon further detective work he forgot to rinse them as well as remove the carbon. That was on e crazy month (x-mas,moving,ect...) Hopefully this is the culprit, changed out the heater just to be safe.. did a huge water change,syphoning the sand like crazy and replaced the cartridges... now to give it a few weeks and see if they heal up!
I forget what you're using for filters. Can I suggest liberal use of filter floss for a month or so to ensure the capture of any suspended carbon, if you don't use it already?
 
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