Most important things to look at when purchasing a filter?

[mr.bigglesworth]

But you contradict yourself a bit by saying all HOBs are designed a certain way , but the Emperor doesn't fit the norm, and then that you've only owned Penguins and not Emperors because you won't waste money on Emperors gimmicky add ons? Which means you have no actual hands on experience with this filter itself.......

Look, I'll step back just a bit here. I'm only commenting on a filter I own. Not one I've heard about or assume things about. The filter design is not the culprit. Operator error is the culprit here. My wife forgot and we paid the price. Life happens. People forget. The Emperor is a decent filter and has been in service in my house for almost 10 years now. I can't blame Marineland for so called gimmicky design flaws when it was user error that caused the small flood on our 60 gallon tank.

I travel for a living.... Alot. So my wife takes care of the tanks when I'm gone, but she is not a hobbyist so I design my systems to be as user friendly, flood proof and quiet as humanly possible for them as much as me. Moving 2500 gph in the main hallway of your house "quietly" is not an easy task. If I had the space I suppose your solution would be to line up 5 Ac110's(which Im using here because they move 500gph with no 'gimmicky" parts) side by side but with a 300 gallon Eurobraced acrylic tank designed to sit flush against the wall, it's just not practical from a space or sound pov. The dual Herbie design moves a ton of water quietly with little chance of flooding. I'm an ex saltwater guy, so these type of systems, to me, are not overly complicated at the end of the day. I am not a hydraluic engineer. I am a guitarist with lousy math skills .Sumps may seem complicated to someone who's never set one up, and I totally understand that point. But this system in particular had a few more things to consider than just filtration. Space, water volume and silent operation where key, and being flood proof is part of the design as well.

I agree that by design HOBs are a great option for those who need great filtration with no concern over space behind the aquarium, or staring at an immovable intake tube . I've owned 5 over the years still have my 2 running in the garage with bio wheels attached at the only source of bio besides the tank and substrate itself. I had a small flood and your not understanding how on a filter you've never owned does not change the fact that it did.

I'll put 5 ac110's up against my sump and you'll find my sump moves the same amount of water, adds about 60 gallons of volume to the system, has 10x the room for bio, heaters and fish, (which I have used from time to time for qt) is quieter and uses no space behind my tank. All for about $500..... Which I would have to give the edge to the ac's here because 5 of those would be about $400 ......and my sump has 2 pumps as opposed to 5 and 1 container as opposed to 5, so to move this amount of water, the HOB route is actually alot more complicated..... And I'd have to stare at 5 intake tubes which would be the worst lol

Enjoy your HOBs and I'll enjoy my sump.....


Sent from my iPhone using MonsterAquariaNetwork app

You never argued against his mentioning that hob cant flow out the back. This must mean you agree.

[mr.bigglesworth]

All for about $500..... Which I would have to give the edge to the ac's here because 5 of those would be about $400

400$ for 5 ac110?? I paid 50$ each for my brand new ac110 from bigals online with free shipping. Thats 200$. I got a ac110 used for 15$ each. Thats 75$. I would much rather stick with the basic 75$ over 500$.

[Inglorious]

An AC110 is regularly $122 at Bigals, when you're pricing things out you can't use sale and clearance prices, or what you paid used. That's not an apples to apples comparison. The truth of the matter is that any filter can overflow. I've seen HOB's come extremely close because the media wasn't exactly installed correctly and the water in back was very close to the lip before it went around the media and out the front. I don't know if it would have actually overflowed if I let it sit but I didn't want to find out. But a properly designed sump will hold any extra water that would drain into it if power goes out, and has backup drains in case one would ever get clogged for any reason. Add on an autodrip system with a drain and the flooding risk is even less. Is it more difficult to setup, of course, but I think you end up with a much nicer looking system that can handle a higher bioload, and doesn't have any visible equipment like heaters.

[Jc1119]

HOBs are not for everyone because they are noisy and ugly. If you want a silent system with nothing sticking out off the back, you go with canister filters. If you want the most efficient mechanical, biological and chemical fitration, you go with wet and dry because it has the largest filter media volume and unlimited options of what you can put into it. This is why wet and dry are standard for saltwater because it needs as much biological/chemical filtration help as it can get, and saltwater is expensive and tedious to replace.

I have never owned and will never want to own an Emperor after I reviewed its complicated engineering design. The biowheel and spray bar are gimmick in a sense that it is not needed for a freshwater tank and unlikely to be adeqate as a stand alone filter for a saltwater tank.

Yeah I agree. The spray bar thing is pretty much pointless. Water moves under the bio wheel either way and it can get clogged easily. Completely unnecessary IMO. I did run a smaller salt system with some Emperors awhile back, but it was mostly a grow out tank and stock was light.

I run canisters on my studio/office 135 because of exactly what you said. They are very quiet , tank can almost be flush with the wall and plumbing can be hidden relatively easily. 4 Rena's and a SunSun on that tank. Jury is still out on the SunSun but I really love my xp3's. Breeze to maintain and run pretty efficiently.


Sent from my iPhone using MonsterAquariaNetwork app

[Jc1119]

400$ for 5 ac110?? I paid 50$ each for my brand new ac110 from bigals online with free shipping. Thats 200$. I got a ac110 used for 15$ each. Thats 75$. I would much rather stick with the basic 75$ over 500$.

Then you should buy them a sell them. Lol. Cheapest I've seen is $65 each. $75 is the average. Look online. I just did.

If you can find them for $15 each that's great. I've never seen them for that much, but either way you'd still be staring at 5 intake tubes and have far less flexibility in your system. Less water, bio, more plugs, etc. And saving money is great, but when you setup a large system like mine I feel better knowing I'm starting with brand new parts. The pros outweigh the cons in my situation. $500 for a 2500gph sump is a bargain at the end of the day. How many FX5's would you need for that turnover? 4 at about $250 each.......sump wins there too.

Can you put fish in your ac's? I regularly qt fish in my sump. Large ones.
and to answer you're earlier question about "me not arguing against his mentioning that a HOB cant's flow out the back"?.........I think my flood was my side of the argument Ryan. Didn't think I needed to re-iterate the obvious. Keep up with the conversation buddy.......

Sent from my iPhone using MonsterAquariaNetwork app

[tiger15]

A used HOB is not necessarily a good deal, unless you don't mind hearing a noisy worn out impeller. Replacement of the impeller doesn't come cheap.

True, some HOBs can come close to overflowing as the filter pads clog up and the water back up almost to the rim. But the clever engineering will allow the water to just overflow into the spillway in the front. But a badly tilted box can overflow. The only exception is Aquaclear due to unconventional reverse flow design that a clogged up foam can pop up and drip from the top. Another design flaw is that you have to unscrew the motor to clean the impeller and over time, the O ring will fail and leak. But a drippy HOB will only make a mess on the floor, not draining the tank as a leaky canister or wet and dry will do depending on how low the intake pipe is situated.

[Jc1119]

A used HOB is not necessarily a good deal, unless you don't mind hearing a noisy worn out impeller. Replacement of the impeller doesn't come cheap.

True, some HOBs can come close to overflowing as the filter pads clog up and the water back up almost to the rim. But the clever engineering will allow the water to just overflow into the spillway in the front. But a badly tilted box can overflow. The only exception is Aquaclear due to unconventional reverse flow design that a clogged up foam can pop up and drip from the top. Another design flaw is that you have to unscrew the motor to clean the impeller and over time, the O ring will fail and leak. But a drippy HOB will only make a mess on the floor, not draining the tank as a leaky canister or wet and dry will do depending on how low the intake pipe is situated.

Agreed... And to clarify, I had more of a puddle than a tsunami in my case. It certainly didnt drain the tank Just pointing out the fact that I've only had a puddle from that hob and none from any of the 3 sumps I've run. Maybe I just got lucky ( or unlucky in the case of the Emperor)

I've never bought a used filter. I've come close but always chicken out at the last minute lol.


Sent from my iPhone using MonsterAquariaNetwork app

[tiger15]

I just read another tsunami accident thread on a failed canister: http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/fo...light=canister

This guy lost 25% volume of his tank water to the floor. I've read even worse accident that 80% tank volume was lost. The guy cleaned the filter and went shopping. When he returned, he found the fish bouncing in a few inches of water left in the tank. There is a design vulnerability of canister filters because it was set up to siphon water from the tank to a closed container and if there is a leak, the water will shoot out and drain the tank. There is a couple preventative measures that can be taken to control the potential damage. One is to locate the intake hose up high, another is to punch a hole up high in the intake hose so as to create a siphone breaker.

I have never heard of flooding accident with wet and dry, but theretically can occur because it also siphons water from the tank. If you size everything right and check all the fittings, it has no more chance of leaking than your bathroom plumbing. Once the system is set up, you never have to touch the fittings again, and there are no O rings or clamps to wear out.

HOBs can leak but not drain the tank, typically caused by wicking from the top due to mis fitting the filter pad.

[theskibag]

I've punched a hole up high in the intake hose of my FX5 so worst case scenario is a 25% lose. The Mrs will be pissed off for flooding the place but at least i won't lose any fish!

[viejafish]

400$ for 5 ac110?? I paid 50$ each for my brand new ac110 from bigals online with free shipping. Thats 200$. I got a ac110 used for 15$ each. Thats 75$. I would much rather stick with the basic 75$ over 500$.

AC is not the best value HOBs. Even though it is the champeon in delivering the highest gpd and media volume amoung other HOBs, it is problem prone from leak in the O ring and wicking leak from the top. It has the widest box that takes up the most space behind the tank, and it's more pricy than other brands. Whisper, Penquin and Aqeon offer better price and simpler design. The best value is Penquin. BigAls is selling Penquin 350 for $27 with an additional rebate of $10 from the manufacturer.