HMF-style mechanical filtration in sump?

David R

Blue Tier VIP
MFK Member
Apr 26, 2005
5,025
228
320
42
New Zealand
Now that things are starting to progress with my tank build (stand should be here in two weeks) I'd better get serious about designing the filtration for it!
The tank is going to house many large messy plecs (3 L190, 3 L14, 2 L128, L81 for a start!), so the filter system needs to not only have effective mechanical filtration that can deal with a large volume of waste, it needs to be easy to clean and to be able to go a reasonable length of time (7 days at least) without clogging. I've seen how much mess the royals make now and they're only ~4" each, there's going to be a lot of sawdust by the time they're pushing 12"+!! With the sump on my previous 1400L set up I used filter socks, I was very impressed with how well they cleared the water but found they clogged in about 3 days, even when suspended half way out of the water. I used to run a "settling chamber" before the sump on my 800L set up [pic below] and found it worked very well for catching larger waste (like Panaque crap) and would really like to incorporate one this time around. The trouble is it makes it more difficult to use the filter socks given that I have limited height to work with. I'm toying with the notion of using several sheets of Poret foam after the settling chamber for a "hamburgmatten" style filter to catch the finer debris before getting to the pond matrix that will provide the biological media.



Basically the water would flow into the settling chamber, then over a baffle and through the foam (10ppi, 20ppi, and maybe 30ppi?) then over the bio media and heaters before returning to the tank. The sump will be ~50cm wide and probably 50-60cm high, with the water level around 30cm in the last compartment so there will be a large area of foam for the water to pass through, and as it clogs the water level on the left side will just increase further up the foam.
I've never used the foam before, so I'm unsure just how much water a sheet like that will flow. I'm planning on having ~2000gph turn over, is it even feasible to have this sort of volume of water flowing through the foam like this? Any idea how it will work and how long it might last before reducing the water flow?

Here's a pic of the settling chamber on my 800L set up. I could always use two separate tanks like this and have the drains running into filter socks, but I'd rather just have it incorporated all into one tank.
 

Squirtle919

Plecostomus
MFK Member
Sep 5, 2011
1,564
2
53
Within Earth
it all sounds good, I use a 7500LPH pump (2000gph = 7500lph? correct?) on my 550G and a 3ft sump with a bit more foam in it and the water stays crystal clear with 20ish large cichlids. the only issue is feeding time the water wont stay clear. I would try to sort away to get the wood chunks into the settling chamber? maybe where the settle chamber runs into the tower extend one elbow or add an extra one coming out further into a filter sock?

my 30ppi foam wont clog up or reduce flow also but I have a massive car sponge in the sump which after 1 month does reduce follow 2-3 months it will actually clog the sump up but the 30ppi or jap matt never causes these issues.
 

David R

Blue Tier VIP
MFK Member
Apr 26, 2005
5,025
228
320
42
New Zealand
Going with as Laguna MaxFlo 2900, with around 3' of head it will probably be doing close to 2500g (according to their table, I'm guessing a little less) so it could be 8-9000LPH. I was thinking of having a sheet of the 10ppi foam, then 20ppi then 30ppi, hopefully that will keep the water fairly clear?

I've been thinking about it at work today, do you think it would be better to have a baffle like this after the media so that most of the sheet is completely submerged, rather than letting the water level on the left of the sheets increase as they clog up?

 

Squirtle919

Plecostomus
MFK Member
Sep 5, 2011
1,564
2
53
Within Earth
I would have the first baffle for the foams higher up so the water goes under this will give a better contact imo (under - Over) and yes its a good idea in case of clogging but I doubt it will occur.

ideally a second baffle after the matrix lifted so it goes over-under would also give a better contact time but its not a biggie.

I cant really say if it will keep it clear, it should more is always better I dont see any downside adding as many sheets as you can fit. Pump sounds good, I found lagunas pretty good with low head heights nice flow.
 

David R

Blue Tier VIP
MFK Member
Apr 26, 2005
5,025
228
320
42
New Zealand
Here's a more detailed picture of what I'm planning, all feedback appreciated! If I can manage to get hold of some I'll probably grow Pothos in the settling chamber part, which will help collect debris in the roots too I imagine. I'm not concerned about the amount of bio, but will the Poret like that be enough mechanical to keep the water clear? Will the 50x50 sheets be able to handle the flow of water I'm planning?



Sump will be 48cm wide (internal) and 60cm high. Water flows in from the tank, through the settling chamber (about 75cm long) and over a 48cm high baffle into the 50x50cm sheets of Poret. I was thinking of using two 5cm sheets of 10ppi together to make a 10cm thick block that should catch most of the remaining physical waste, then two 5cm sheets of 20ppi with a small gap between them to remove any remaining fine waste and provide some bio filtration. The water flows under next baffle which will be 52cm high, then over the next one at 40cm high (which will allow the water level in the compartment with the foam to rise as it slowly clogs to create a bit of pressure to help move the water through the foam). Seems how I have about 40L of bioballs and 30kg of ceramic noodles left over from my last set up I'm going to make a drip tray and a ~40L compartment for additional bio media, noodles, bioballs, matrix, whatever. From there the water flows over the heaters before being returned to the tank. Total length of the sump will be about 200cm.
 

Miguel

Ole Dawg
MFK Member
Dec 28, 2006
15,857
27
89
Very much south..
I see no problems with your design. My sump, though bigger in dimension is the same.

The sponge will clogg, but it will take time and you will notice it.
I use glass wool on top of the sponge ( a cover of the sponge where the debris get stuck before clogging the sponge ) and change said wool periodically.

I also continue to use filter sockets on the water inflow. One 50 microns inside of a 100 hundred. They get clogged, i clean them. Still find it is a very good mechanical mean.

On another note, yet, i would also put bio media in your first chamber. What harm can it do?

On a last note, go and check the sticky in " diseases" about probiotics and septic tank products a couple of us use.

Makes a huge difference.
 

David R

Blue Tier VIP
MFK Member
Apr 26, 2005
5,025
228
320
42
New Zealand
Looks like an interesting read, will check it out thoroughly tonight.

Filter socks. Hmm. I used two 100micron socks on my last set up and was changing them every three days, and that is something I really want to avoid this time round. I had considered using four 720x190mm 100micron socks instead of two 400x190mm to try prolong the time between cleans, but the settling chamber on my old 800L tank worked so well at catching the Panaque crap I really want to incorporate in this sump, which makes it hard to use the filter socks. Ideally I'd like to be able to leave the sump untouched for at least a week, if not longer.

I don't want to put anything (except maybe pothos) in the first compartment as I want it to be easy to siphon the muck out the bottom every week or two. The settling chamber on my 800L tank would collect about 10mm of sawdust and crud on the bottom in a week, and that was with only one 5-6" Panaque. This tank will have 3-4 of them and I'm counting on them getting a lot bigger than that so having some sort of easy to clean pre-filter before the sponges/socks/whatever is going to be a must-have.

Have you got any pics of your set up Miguel?
 

Miguel

Ole Dawg
MFK Member
Dec 28, 2006
15,857
27
89
Very much south..
I habe some in Mfk.

But will take new ones for you tomorrow. Iphone ones, obviously.
 

David R

Blue Tier VIP
MFK Member
Apr 26, 2005
5,025
228
320
42
New Zealand
Cool, Thanks!
 

bozatron

Gambusia
MFK Member
Apr 12, 2012
202
2
18
Dubai
Looks good, simple, clean and effective. Just one point how do you intend to keep the poret upright? I am thinking the water flow might try to buckle it and then find a way around it. Or even if they are held upright without gaps between the two glass baffles the water will try and go between the sponges. Water will always find the easiest path.

Just a thought but if you cut the poret to size and lay it in layers horizontally in the chamber it would force the water to go through it. Also by laying it flat it would support itself.

I know it is not on the same big scale but this is my sump and you can see there are 8 layers of Koi matt (kind of similar to the Poret you are using) laid flat for this reason . . . .

sump.jpg

As for restricting the flow, I dont think you will encounter this with just a few sheets of sponge/poret. As long as your overflow pipes can provide more flow than your pump, then the sump will work at the flow of the pump (minus head height of course).

I would reconsider filter socks. Yes you have to clean them every few days to a week, but they stop a lot of the large waste entering the sump and keep the maintenace on the main areas of the sump to a minimum. I just have 4 socks on rotation. Once I have 3 dirty ones, they go in the washing machine.

sump.jpg
 
zoomed.com
hikariusa.com
aqaimports.com
Store