Couple quick questions

Amaroq · May 18, 2013

So some of you may remember a while back I had a thread going about setting up my first saltwater tank, I'm pleased to say the tank is still running strong. I changed my equipment up a bit and in case you didn't read my old thread I'll just list everything.

75 Gallon Display
ATI 4x54W T5HO (2 Aquablue Special, 2 Blue +)
50lbs of DR
20lbs of LR
60lbs of sand (Playing with the idea of getting another 20lbs I just don't know how to add it now that the tank is running...)
AC110 for flow
2 Korilias 425's

40 Gallon Sump
7" Filter sock 200-300micron (Thinking of buying a bunch of socks, what would be the best micron size to get? Best material?)
Coralife 125 Skimmer (Want to swap this out for something bigger and better when I have the cash)
250W Jager heater (Would like to buy another heater just for safety)
24W UV Sterilizer
1100 GPH return pump

Then for livestock I have two 3" Lamarck's Angels, 3 Peppermint Shrimp, 13 Trochus Snails, 20 Nassarius Snails, and 15 Cerith Snails. I also have some Zoas in the tank now since I bought the ATI light fixture, eight to be specific. If anyone is curious of the kinds feel free to ask, I'm just feeling too lazy to post them right now haha

So basically my main reason for this whole thread is to ask about mixing my livestock around a bit and if it will be alright. So I was thinking of removing one of the Lamarck's Angels and all the snails/shrimp in exchange for a Blue Throat Trigger, a Aussie Harlequin Tusk, and if possible either a Kole Tang or a White Tail Bristle Tooth Tang. Maybe a couple Chromis or Damsels to fill some spaces. Now I realize almost all the fish on that list require larger than a 75 when full grown, and I will be upgrading to a 125 in future, hopefully around 10 months at the latest. So is this do-able? Will my Zoas and any other corals I end up getting suffer from a lack of a CUC? I figure the Tang will take care of most of the algae on the rocks and the glass will be up to me. Could I possibly throw in a couple Brittle stars to keep my sand bed turned over or will they just end up as food?

I may pass on the Tang until I get the 125 just because I would be having 4 "big" fish that love to constantly cruise around the tank which might end up getting a little cramped for a 75. All fish will be around 3"-5" when purchased for the 75 so there won't be any big brutes in the tank.

So... what is everyones thoughts? I only reason I was thinking of removing the snails/shrimp is because they will become food for the Trigger and Tusk so I may as well use them for credit towards either of the fish, makes sense?

Thanks :popcorn:

Amaroq · May 18, 2013

Everyone feeling shy today?

~ocean · May 18, 2013

That sounds pretty good, I'd leave out the spare chromis or damsels, the blue throat will need lots of swimming space. I think your snails will be fine, but I'd remove the shrimp, triggers love eating them; for blue throats, not as much, but its still just hit and miss.

Otherone · May 19, 2013

Tanks too small for a Tusk period 180 gal min. Also removing all the large cuc removes the tusk food source - both tusk and trigger will be in direct competition for the food - the trigger will win. Not saying keeping triggers and tusks are impossible just saying tusks are a far more delicate fish and hard for most to keep hence the huge price tag - and just an fyi I've tried 2x tusks in a limited stock 210gal reef both jumped out of the tank

Amaroq · May 19, 2013

180 gallon minimum? Since when? I've never read that a 180 is the minimum for a Tusk, I've seen as low a 55 for a single fish with a 125 being the 'standard' minimum. They also tend to grow relatively slowly in comparison to other species.

I've also never seen someone describe a Tusk as a delicate fish, I've heard they can be more sensitive when young and small and that older larger fish don't tend to adjust to aquarium life well. Though that seems to apply to almost every 'large' saltwater fish. It also varies between Indo or Aussie though, and I don't intend to get an Indo as they tend not to survive the stress of capture and shipping. The jumping I'm not really worried over, the Blue Throat are known to be jumpers as well. I currently have a glass canopy that I think I'm going to switch for a screen so I can have more light get through the canopy. Also its much nicer on the fish for it to hit flexible screen then hard glass, obviously lol.

The fact they eat the same food doesn't mean they can't/shouldn't be kept together, its to my understanding Tangs are quite aggressive feeders and people house multiple tangs together all the time. Not to mention almost every tusk tank I've seen has had trigger in it.

On the note of food has anyone tried the new Repashy line of saltwater foods? He makes quite high quality reptile foods so I can only imagine his saltwater food will be of high quality as well, not to mention he makes a diet specifically for invertivores like the Tusk and Trigger. I was thinking I would use the Repashy foods in addition to a only frozen foods and seaweed diet. Frozen food would consist of Squid, Shrimp, Mussels, Cuttlefish, and Clams. Are there any frozen fish that would be alright like Cod for example?

In regards to adding the fish to the tank what would be the best order? I've heard the Tusk should be one of the last addition because it may be aggressive to fish added later, though that could apply to the Tang as well correct? I was thinking I would do this order.

Lamarck's Angel (Already have it)
Blue Throat Trigger/Niger Trigger
Harlequin Tusk
Kole Tang/White Tail Bristletooth Tang

With the tang likely being introduced once the 125 is up and running. It will depend on if I feel there is enough room for another active swimming fish, which there likely wont be anyways.

Though if I were to listen to your advise Otherone would this order work better instead?

Lamarck's Angel
Harlequin Tusk
Kole Tang/White Tail Bristletooh Tang
Blue Throat Trigger/Niger Trigger

With the Trigger being added when the 125 is established.

Mythic Figment · May 19, 2013

Amaroq said:
180 gallon minimum? Since when? I've never read that a 180 is the minimum for a Tusk, I've seen as low a 55 for a single fish with a 125 being the 'standard' minimum. They also tend to grow relatively slowly in comparison to other species.

I've also never seen someone describe a Tusk as a delicate fish, I've heard they can be more sensitive when young and small and that older larger fish don't tend to adjust to aquarium life well. Though that seems to apply to almost every 'large' saltwater fish. It also varies between Indo or Aussie though, and I don't intend to get an Indo as they tend not to survive the stress of capture and shipping. The jumping I'm not really worried over, the Blue Throat are known to be jumpers as well. I currently have a glass canopy that I think I'm going to switch for a screen so I can have more light get through the canopy. Also its much nicer on the fish for it to hit flexible screen then hard glass, obviously lol.

The fact they eat the same food doesn't mean they can't/shouldn't be kept together, its to my understanding Tangs are quite aggressive feeders and people house multiple tangs together all the time. Not to mention almost every tusk tank I've seen has had trigger in it.

On the note of food has anyone tried the new Repashy line of saltwater foods? He makes quite high quality reptile foods so I can only imagine his saltwater food will be of high quality as well, not to mention he makes a diet specifically for invertivores like the Tusk and Trigger. I was thinking I would use the Repashy foods in addition to a only frozen foods and seaweed diet. Frozen food would consist of Squid, Shrimp, Mussels, Cuttlefish, and Clams. Are there any frozen fish that would be alright like Cod for example?

In regards to adding the fish to the tank what would be the best order? I've heard the Tusk should be one of the last addition because it may be aggressive to fish added later, though that could apply to the Tang as well correct? I was thinking I would do this order.

Lamarck's Angel (Already have it)
Blue Throat Trigger/Niger Trigger
Harlequin Tusk
Kole Tang/White Tail Bristletooth Tang

With the tang likely being introduced once the 125 is up and running. It will depend on if I feel there is enough room for another active swimming fish, which there likely wont be anyways.

Though if I were to listen to your advise Otherone would this order work better instead?

Lamarck's Angel
Harlequin Tusk
Kole Tang/White Tail Bristletooh Tang
Blue Throat Trigger/Niger Trigger

With the Trigger being added when the 125 is established.

I have been looking at a lot of fish as I am planning to setup a tank here in the next 6-8 months. I have seen 125 gallons be the recommended minimum for these fish with 180 being the standard. I have not seen anything less than 90 gallons being a "minimum" in forums and that was not without some opposition. But just because someone says they have their fish in a 55 doesn't make it an acceptable minimum. Of course all tank sizes recommended are for full grown adults.

I too haven't read much on them being delicate, but have read a lot about them jumping out. And I would argue against a screen as opposed to glass. Glass is a hard smooth surface that can still cause damage to your fish, but wont likely be serious (though glass can break if it isn't of good quality). However a screen is metal mesh that can cause serious damage. Think cheese grater. Any impact with the screen at an angle (and 99 out of 100 will be at an angle) will likely shred scales at best. Worst case is an eye and/or gill plate and/or fin goes.

I can't comment on tusks and trigger comparability, but food competition can be rough stuff. I am finding that I need to be very careful in my stock planning so that I don't have issues with fish not getting enough food, which can lead to illness (for me specifically its mandarin gobies and keeping copepod populations large enough without having too many other fish that will also snack on the pods).

I think your list is all aggressive fish and if my reading is correct, the tang will likely be the least aggressive there. The trigger would be also close for being added first. Angels seem to be up there with the tusks as far as aggression goes and should be added close to last. Though the tusk probably should be added last. All this info is based in the reading I have been doing lately, so please feel free to correct me if my info is wrong.

Just my two cents worth.

Sent from my iPad using MonsterAquariaNetwork app

Amaroq · May 19, 2013

Mythic Figment said:
I have been looking at a lot of fish as I am planning to setup a tank here in the next 6-8 months. I have seen 125 gallons be the recommended minimum for these fish with 180 being the standard. I have not seen anything less than 90 gallons being a "minimum" in forums and that was not without some opposition. But just because someone says they have their fish in a 55 doesn't make it an acceptable minimum. Of course all tank sizes recommended are for full grown adults.

I too haven't read much on them being delicate, but have read a lot about them jumping out. And I would argue against a screen as opposed to glass. Glass is a hard smooth surface that can still cause damage to your fish, but wont likely be serious (though glass can break if it isn't of good quality). However a screen is metal mesh that can cause serious damage. Think cheese grater. Any impact with the screen at an angle (and 99 out of 100 will be at an angle) will likely shred scales at best. Worst case is an eye and/or gill plate and/or fin goes.

I can't comment on tusks and trigger comparability, but food competition can be rough stuff. I am finding that I need to be very careful in my stock planning so that I don't have issues with fish not getting enough food, which can lead to illness (for me specifically its mandarin gobies and keeping copepod populations large enough without having too many other fish that will also snack on the pods).

I think your list is all aggressive fish and if my reading is correct, the tang will likely be the least aggressive there. The trigger would be also close for being added first. Angels seem to be up there with the tusks as far as aggression goes and should be added close to last. Though the tusk probably should be added last. All this info is based in the reading I have been doing lately, so please feel free to correct me if my info is wrong.

Just my two cents worth.

Sent from my iPad using MonsterAquariaNetwork app

I understand that just because someone says "I keep an oscar in my 10 gallon" doesn't mean its the best thing for the fish. I also realize that its pretty easy to just come up with what you may think is best for a fish, ie the minimum for a Guppy is 10 Gallons (Not you specifically Mythic Figment). So the only real option to sift through everyone's opinion and find what you personally think to be the most accurate. Not to mention in Saltwater no one agrees on a bloody thing

To give an example here is eight different sources on the minimum tank size for a Harlequin Tusk from a simple Google search, and a book I had lying around.

60 Gallon http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/3/fish
125 Gallon http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+46+380&pcatid=380
75 Gallon http://www.tfhmagazine.com/saltwate...dy-and-fashionable-the-harlequin-tuskfish.htm
55 Gallon http://www.freshmarine.com/harlequin-tusk-wrasse.html
90 Gallon http://www.bluezooaquatics.com/productDetail.asp?did=1&pid=986&cid=289
75 Gallon http://www.hurstvilleaquarium.com.au/?p=2373
120 Gallon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choerodon_fasciatus
55 Gallon "The 101 Best Saltwater Fishes" by Scott W. Michael

See what I mean? The average for all those tanks is 81 Gallons, so logically by that arguement I would be able to keep one in my system.

In regards to the screen, I understand your fears but I know of no one who would use a metal screen over a fish tank. Not only would it likely cut fish (as you mentioned) it would rust away from salt corrosion. Unless I were to go out and buy stainless steel mesh, in which case I would be spending far more then necessary. I would be using a clear plastic mesh which isn't sharp enough to cut the fish, and with 1/4" holes it isn't so large as to let parts of the fish get stuck. This is the product here if you were curious, http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/catalog/product/view/id/1768/ .

While I see where your coming from with your mention of food being distributed fairly, its simple enough to put in more food in the tank, or to feed in more then one area so two aggressive feeders don't need to be around each other (opposite ends of the tank) The fish I'm interested rarely have issues like you will have with the Dragonette like needing live food sources. That being said though they have just recently been able to start captive breeding some species of Dragonettes so they will take frozen and prepared foods, something you may want to look into.

You would be surprised with how aggressive tangs can be considering they are a herbivore. I read many threads where people state their tang is the undisputed boss of the tank with tank mates like triggers, angels, and tusks.

Mythic Figment · May 19, 2013

Amaroq said:
I understand that just because someone says "I keep an oscar in my 10 gallon" doesn't mean its the best thing for the fish. I also realize that its pretty easy to just come up with what you may think is best for a fish, ie the minimum for a Guppy is 10 Gallons (Not you specifically Mythic Figment). So the only real option to sift through everyone's opinion and find what you personally think to be the most accurate. Not to mention in Saltwater no one agrees on a bloody thing To give an example here is eight different sources on the minimum tank size for a Harlequin Tusk from a simple Google search, and a book I had lying around.

60 Gallon http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/3/fish
125 Gallon http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+46+380&pcatid=380
75 Gallon http://www.tfhmagazine.com/saltwate...dy-and-fashionable-the-harlequin-tuskfish.htm
55 Gallon http://www.freshmarine.com/harlequin-tusk-wrasse.html
90 Gallon http://www.bluezooaquatics.com/productDetail.asp?did=1&pid=986&cid=289
75 Gallon http://www.hurstvilleaquarium.com.au/?p=2373
120 Gallon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choerodon_fasciatus
55 Gallon "The 101 Best Saltwater Fishes" by Scott W. Michael

See what I mean? The average for all those tanks is 81 Gallons, so logically by that arguement I would be able to keep one in my system.

In regards to the screen, I understand your fears but I know of no one who would use a metal screen over a fish tank. Not only would it likely cut fish (as you mentioned) it would rust away from salt corrosion. Unless I were to go out and buy stainless steel mesh, in which case I would be spending far more then necessary. I would be using a clear plastic mesh which isn't sharp enough to cut the fish, and with 1/4" holes it isn't so large as to let parts of the fish get stuck. This is the product here if you were curious, http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/catalog/product/view/id/1768/ .

While I see where your coming from with your mention of food being distributed fairly, its simple enough to put in more food in the tank, or to feed in more then one area so two aggressive feeders don't need to be around each other (opposite ends of the tank) The fish I'm interested rarely have issues like you will have with the Dragonette like needing live food sources. That being said though they have just recently been able to start captive breeding some species of Dragonettes so they will take frozen and prepared foods, something you may want to look into.

You would be surprised with how aggressive tangs can be considering they are a herbivore. I read many threads where people state their tang is the undisputed boss of the tank with tank mates like triggers, angels, and tusks.

I was unaware they made plastic mesh lids. Interesting.

I actually feed in three spots of my 125 tank with two juveniles severums in it because of aggression, so I know right where you are coming from. The downside to dragonettes with taking prepared foods is they have a simple digestive system with very little room to store food, so they need a source of live food to constantly graze. So prepared foods are fine if used to supplement their natural diet of pods. I have also seen a guy who feeds live baby brine shrimp. He has a device that slowly releases them and gives the dragonettes a constant source of food. Very interesting stuff and I may try it out myself.

With the aggressive fish you want I was going by just what I read. Just like with many freshwater fish, it often depends in the personality of the individual. You could end up with a nasty tang, and I have read some threads on aggressive tangs too. But on the whole, many people report very calm tangs (also varies by species) that don't give other fish a second glance. Same with angels. I have been on the fence about flame angels or getting a different species of angel because all of them have reports of being terrors as opposed to their general placid species behavior that is listed on many websites. So just like with everything else in fish keeping (both fresh and salt), just about every topic can be debated one way or the other.

Sent from my iPad using MonsterAquariaNetwork app

Amaroq · May 21, 2013

So anyone have any experience with the Repashy food? He makes quite high quality reptile foods so I can only imagine his saltwater food will be of high quality as well, not to mention he makes a diet specifically for invertivores like the Tusk and Trigger. I was thinking I would use the Repashy foods in addition to a only frozen foods and seaweed diet. Frozen food would consist of Squid, Shrimp, Mussels, Cuttlefish, and Clams. Are there any frozen fish that would be alright like Cod for example?

Also I wanna buy a bunch of filter socks, what would be the best micron size to get and best material? Right now I have a 200 micron felt and a 300 micron Vertex one, the 200 was dirtied quite quickly but the 300 doesn't seem to collect much as its hardly dirty and its been in for over a week now.

billbobthegreat · May 24, 2013

You really should never go with a minimum tank size for any fish, the clues in the name chances are these "minimums" are worked out at just that a minimum ie no other fish and nothing in the display. Always try and double the minimum at least is best dfor the fish I think. My planned setup is based around a emperor angelfish and the majority of sites recommend the 5x2x2 growout I have for it, but after seeing one in real life I would never put even a half grown fish in less than a 300 gal.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using MonsterAquariaNetwork App


zoomed.com	hikariusa.com		aqaimports.com	Store

Search

Search

Couple quick questions

Amaroq

Candiru

Amaroq

Candiru

~ocean

Feeder Fish

Otherone

Feeder Fish

Amaroq

Candiru

Mythic Figment

Feeder Fish

Amaroq

Candiru

Mythic Figment

Feeder Fish

Amaroq

Candiru

billbobthegreat

Feeder Fish